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2020 Draft Thread

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Of all the goalies that have been drafted by the Wings in two decades, two worked out as NHL starters (not the best drafting record. current young prospects we obv don't know their end potential yet).  Howard and Mrazek. Howard is 36 and coming off a huge 2 win season and is not returning. Mrazek could have still been around and been the number 1 had he been allowed to work through his issues instead of being traded for a s***ty 4th pick because the older Howard was playing better at the time and Kenny didn't wanna up the 4 mill (then brought in Bernier for 3 mill). He's doing perfectly fine in Carolina and is still young. Anyways, that ship has sailed, and we have no prospects in the pipeline even remotely ready. Askarov is no fifth round crapshoot. He's got legit star franchise goalie potential. I doubt the team makes the playoffs next season either, they will have another shot at a great forward in the early first round. UFA goalie stop gaps are fine for a couple seasons, but having someone like Askarov drafted and developing in the Wings system in the meantime would ease the long term worries.

1. I'm in agreement that we should have kept Mrazek over Howard. I believe you and I were two of the few people that were vocal on here about how dumb that was. In hindsight, I'd still say we should have gotten rid of Howard in favor of Mrazek.

2. I think you missed the entire point of my post...

I don't care what our track record has been in drafting goalies. No team has a great track record in drafting goalies. The reason for that, they're way too unpredictable. Even "can't miss franchise" type goalies taken in the 1st round don't always pan out. I think Askarov will pan out. Maybe not as well as some think... I just think there are bigger needs, and better ways to build a team, than taking a goaltender 4th overall.

The teams that have drafted a stud goalie, for the most part, have lucked into it, most of them coming outside of the 1st round... On average, teams pick a goalie every year or two. Most teams have a similar track record as the Wings, hitting on one or two in the past 15-20 years. If it were up to me, I'd take a goalie every two years (at most), and I wouldn't pick one until the 3rd round (at the earliest), unless one dropped dramatically into the 2nd round.

Chances are, Askarov will go in the 10-20 range, but if he somehow drops to 32, I'd be all for Yzerman taking him there. Hell, even if he's still there at pick 25, I'd be okay with Yzerman packaging another pick to move up from 32. At 4, I'd be pissed.

I'm hoping for Stutzle or Raymond.

I'd be okay with Perfetti, Rossi, Holtz, Drysdale.

I'd be pissed with Askarov.

Edited by krsmith17

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On 7/11/2020 at 8:12 PM, chaps80 said:

I wouldn't complain about Askarov at 4th overall if they pulled the trigger. Don't see them doing it, but sometimes ya just gotta take a chance. I'd say def skip him if they had G prospects that were close to ready, but none of them are. Good article i came across..they have Holtby in the mix along with Lehner. I'd prefer Lehner. Holtby was always overrated to me and he's gonna want big money and term.

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2020/07/11/detroit-red-wings-goaltending-future/

Ya hard pass on holtby 

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20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

1. I'm in agreement that we should have kept Mrazek over Howard. I believe you and I were two of the few people that were vocal on here about how dumb that was. In hindsight, I'd still say we should have gotten rid of Howard in favor of Mrazek.

2. I think you missed the entire point of my post...

I don't care what our track record has been in drafting goalies. No team has a great track record in drafting goalies. The reason for that, they're way too unpredictable. Even "can't miss franchise" type goalies taken in the 1st round don't always pan out. I think Askarov will pan out. Maybe not as well as some think... I just think there are bigger needs, and better ways to build a team, than taking a goaltender 4th overall.

The teams that have drafted a stud goalie, for the most part, have lucked into it, most of them coming outside of the 1st round... On average, teams pick a goalie every year or two. Most teams have a similar track record as the Wings, hitting on one or two in the past 15-20 years. If it were up to me, I'd take a goalie every two years (at most), and I wouldn't pick one until the 3rd round (at the earliest), unless one dropped dramatically into the 2nd round.

Chances are, Askarov will go in the 10-20 range, but if he somehow drops to 32, I'd be all for Yzerman taking him there. Hell, even if he's still there at pick 25, I'd be okay with Yzerman packaging another pick to move up from 32. At 4, I'd be pissed.

I'm hoping for Stutzle or Raymond.

I'd be okay with Perfetti, Rossi, Holtz, Drysdale.

I'd be pissed with Askarov.

Ya dont expect askarov at 25 and later , if we want him we have to draft him at 4 or trade back .... OR like you said take on a bad contract for a 1st and package more assets to get into 8-14 range but i dont know of anyone who would do a 1st from this years draft 

Canucks with eriksson come to mind but i believe their first was already dealt? Anyways as amazing as it would be to draft raymond and askarov i cant see it happening sadly

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4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Ya dont expect askarov at 25 and later , if we want him we have to draft him at 4 or trade back .... OR like you said take on a bad contract for a 1st and package more assets to get into 8-14 range but i dont know of anyone who would do a 1st from this years draft 

Canucks with eriksson come to mind but i believe their first was already dealt? Anyways as amazing as it would be to draft raymond and askarov i cant see it happening sadly

I just hope Yzerman doesn't want him at 4...

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5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I just hope Yzerman doesn't want him at 4...

I can understand why youd be hesitant but i do think hes the real deal and can totally see yzerman pick him at 4 or trade back and taking him ... im all for lucas raymond but i wouldnt be flipping s*** unlike if it was rossi (sorry dont want a smurf who’ll be tossed around in the playoffs)or a perfetti(if we take him its only cause his buddies told him to )

lIke i said our division is extremely tough and someone else might even add lafraniere so i can totally see yzerman thinking we have to build a strong d core and a top goalie to fight back

Hopefully we add more assets to move up ,unless yzerman goes nuts and trades mantha for a top 10 pick and take askarov .... im sure loads of wings fans would love that lol

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6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yzerman played on stacked teams in the early to mid 90s that were undermined by baaaaaad goaltending. Just sayin :ninja:

Yeah, without Vernon / Osgood, the Wings may have never won those back-to-back Cups...

2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I can understand why youd be hesitant but i do think hes the real deal and can totally see yzerman pick him at 4 or trade back and taking him ... im all for lucas raymond but i wouldnt be flipping s*** unlike if it was rossi (sorry dont want a smurf who’ll be tossed around in the playoffs)or a perfetti(if we take him its only cause his buddies told him to )

lIke i said our division is extremely tough and someone else might even add lafraniere so i can totally see yzerman thinking we have to build a strong d core and a top goalie to fight back

Hopefully we add more assets to move up ,unless yzerman goes nuts and trades mantha for a top 10 pick and take askarov .... im sure loads of wings fans would love that lol

Again, it's not because I don't think Askarov is the real deal, it's because I don't believe that's the smart way to build a team. Build around a core of elite players, not an elite goalie.

2005 was a pretty weak draft, outside of Crosby, Price and Kopitar. Crosby obviously went 1st, Price went 5th, and Kopitar went 11th. Who would you rather have on your team, likely as your best player for over a decade, Price or Kopitar? For me it's Kopitar, and it's not even close. And not just because Kopitar has two Cups and Price has zero. I'd take the top center (or winger, or defenseman) in a draft, over the top goalie, ever. single. time...

Even if Askarov becomes a goalie of prime Price calibre (odds are, he won't), I'd still say at least one or two of the forwards available at 4, will be more valuable to their team, than Askarov will be to his team.

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3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, without Vernon / Osgood, the Wings may have never won those back-to-back Cups...

Again, it's not because I don't think Askarov is the real deal, it's because I don't believe that's the smart way to build a team. Build around a core of elite players, not an elite goalie.

2005 was a pretty weak draft, outside of Crosby, Price and Kopitar. Crosby obviously went 1st, Price went 5th, and Kopitar went 11th. Who would you rather have on your team, likely as your best player for over a decade, Price or Kopitar? For me it's Kopitar, and it's not even close. And not just because Kopitar has two Cups and Price has zero. I'd take the top center (or winger, or defenseman) in a draft, over the top goalie, ever. single. time...

Even if Askarov becomes a goalie of prime Price calibre (odds are, he won't), I'd still say at least one or two of the forwards available at 4, will be more valuable to their team, than Askarov will be to his team.

Alot of people gave the habs s*** at the time for picking price at 5 though, you only know the right moves years later . Obviously picking a #1 center is huge but if the rest of your team is crap then it makes no difference . kings also had quick who was a stud #1 goalie for many years and a #1 dman in doughty etc... price literally has had f*** all to deal with and a bunch of smurfs on the team

We can end up with a good 2nd winger or 2 c or a stud #1 goalie , who would you rather have? As much as i want raymond and want him right now if someone told me he’d end up being a 2nd line player popping 50 pts and askarov is competing for vezina’s yearly id change my mind and take askarov at 4 but we dont have that knowledge till later on

again , stevie’s picking so nothing that happens on draft day should shock anyone (ill still smash s*** if i hear perfetti’s name)

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7 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Alot of people gave the habs s*** at the time for picking price at 5 though, you only know the right moves years later . Obviously picking a #1 center is huge but if the rest of your team is crap then it makes no difference . kings also had quick who was a stud #1 goalie for many years and a #1 dman in doughty etc... price literally has had f*** all to deal with and a bunch of smurfs on the team

We can end up with a good 2nd winger or 2 c or a stud #1 goalie , who would you rather have? As much as i want raymond and want him right now if someone told me he’d end up being a 2nd line player popping 50 pts and askarov is competing for vezina’s yearly id change my mind and take askarov at 4 but we dont have that knowledge till later on

again , stevie’s picking so nothing that happens on draft day should shock anyone (ill still smash s*** if i hear perfetti’s name)

Like I said, never mind what the players have done, because in hindsight, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would rather Price. Kopitar or Price in a vacuum, who would you rather build your team around? For me it's Kopitar, even if he were a winger.

What makes you so confident that Askarov will be a stud number one goaltender, but anyone else available tops out as a 2nd line center / winger? 

Stutzle could fall. He absolutely has 1C potential. Raymond will likely be available. He absolutely has 1W potential. I'd even say that Perfetti, Rossi and Holtz could have top line potential. Drysdale definitely has top pair potential. I think all of those players becoming top line talents is no less likely than Askarov becoming a stud number one goalie that you build your team around...

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12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I said, never mind what the players have done, because in hindsight, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would rather Price. Kopitar or Price in a vacuum, who would you rather build your team around? For me it's Kopitar, even if he were a winger.

What makes you so confident that Askarov will be a stud number one goaltender, but anyone else available tops out as a 2nd line center / winger? 

Stutzle could fall. He absolutely has 1C potential. Raymond will likely be available. He absolutely has 1W potential. I'd even say that Perfetti, Rossi and Holtz could have top line potential. Drysdale definitely has top pair potential. I think all of those players becoming top line talents is no less likely than Askarov becoming a stud number one goalie that you build your team around...

Yes obviously its kopitar but like i said hindsight helps everything .... could easily been price or pouliot? Price or brule? Price or skille? Price or setoguchi? Etc... its nice now cause we all know how kopiar turned out but all those guys were picked before him and turned into busts while the “sure” goalie prospect was a star

Again not saying raymond etc.. will suck maybe only one or raymond holtz rossi etc.... will be the true #1 line guy while askarov stays the “sure” #1 goalie ppl are projecting  ...its up to us to pick the right forward though to make it worthwhile or we might end up looking back thinking what if 

Like you said not many goalies been picked high since price , ppl were going nuts over knight and he looks to be the real deal as well ... obviously we have to wait and see what happens when they get to the nhl but theres only a handful of guys people have talked about being a top 5 goalie pick . Askarov has been at the top pretty much everywhere hes played minus that tournament

anyways like i said it just wouldnt shock me to see us taking him but im all for lucas raymond

 

 

 

 

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jeremy--Laura/Advantage---Europe-Yzerman-talks-pre-draft-scouting/275/106413

 

Nice to see he acknowledged raymond and holtz, best thing for us might be raymond and holtz going nuts in those 6 shl games prior to the draft .... and nice to see him mention germany and finland where stevie scouted hopefully he likes jarventie’s upside

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Yes, I would be pretty upset if he drafted Askarov with our #4. Too many NHL caliber skaters to choose from. I am sticking with Byfield dropping! Aim high! If he does drop, then losing the #1 and having to pick 4th won't hurt so bad....except when we find out who gets the #1...

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1 minute ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Yes obviously its kopitar but like i said hindsight helps everything .... could easily been price or pouliot? Price or brule? Price or skille? Price or setoguchi? Etc... its nice now cause we all know how kopiar turned out but all those guys were picked before him and turned into busts while the “sure” goalie prospect was a star

Again not saying raymond etc.. will suck maybe only one or raymond holtz rossi etc.... will be the true #1 line guy while askarov stays the “sure” #1 goalie ppl are projecting  ...its up to us to pick the right forward though to make it worthwhile or we might end up looking back thinking what if 

Like you said not many goalies been picked high since price , ppl were going nuts over knight and he looks to be the real deal as well ... obviously we have to wait and see what happens when they get to the nhl but theres only a handful of guys people have talked about being a top 5 goalie pick . Askarov has been at the top pretty much everywhere hes played minus that tournament

Again, nevermind hindsight. Nevermind the players I mentioned. Whoever we draft, we're hoping will be the best player on our team. Better than Larkin. Better than Mantha. Better than Zadina. Better than Seider. If you had to choose, would you want that player to be a player or a goalie? For me, and this just comes down to personal preference, I'd pick the player every time. I would never build a team around a goaltender, no matter how highly touted.

Yeah, obviously we have to pick the right player, but again, in my opinion, there will be at least a couple players available at 4, that will end up being more valuable to their team than Askarov will be to his. I just don't value goaltending as much as some I guess...

It's obviously much harder to find elite players (non-goalies) outside of the top 5-10 of any draft. Logic says we should use those picks on players... There are almost always number one calibre goaltenders available beyond the first couple rounds. Again, logic...

9 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

anyways like i said it just wouldnt shock me to see us taking him but im all for lucas raymond

And like I said, I just hope Yzerman doesn't...

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

1. I'm in agreement that we should have kept Mrazek over Howard. I believe you and I were two of the few people that were vocal on here about how dumb that was. In hindsight, I'd still say we should have gotten rid of Howard in favor of Mrazek.

2. I think you missed the entire point of my post...

I don't care what our track record has been in drafting goalies. No team has a great track record in drafting goalies. The reason for that, they're way too unpredictable. Even "can't miss franchise" type goalies taken in the 1st round don't always pan out. I think Askarov will pan out. Maybe not as well as some think... I just think there are bigger needs, and better ways to build a team, than taking a goaltender 4th overall.

The teams that have drafted a stud goalie, for the most part, have lucked into it, most of them coming outside of the 1st round... On average, teams pick a goalie every year or two. Most teams have a similar track record as the Wings, hitting on one or two in the past 15-20 years. If it were up to me, I'd take a goalie every two years (at most), and I wouldn't pick one until the 3rd round (at the earliest), unless one dropped dramatically into the 2nd round.

Chances are, Askarov will go in the 10-20 range, but if he somehow drops to 32, I'd be all for Yzerman taking him there. Hell, even if he's still there at pick 25, I'd be okay with Yzerman packaging another pick to move up from 32. At 4, I'd be pissed.

I'm hoping for Stutzle or Raymond.

I'd be okay with Perfetti, Rossi, Holtz, Drysdale.

I'd be pissed with Askarov.

Yes, I recall that there were a few of us who said the Mrazek move was stupid. Cause it was. Now Carolina has a solid 28 y/o starting goalie and Detroit has Howard coming off a 2 win season at 36 y/o and will either hang em up or try to ride the pine back to the playoffs elsewhere. But we still have Bernier!!

I see your point regarding Askarov. It would be a risk, but I think it's one worth taking. He's not going to fall that far. I think McKenzie had him going 11th the latest. If Yzerman wants him, he has to use the 4th pick. In the end, whatever Yzerman does with the 4th will piss somebody off somewhere. I think Seider was the first high pick since the decline that pretty much everyone is happy with. People are coming around on Zadina now though. Rasmussen is still a toss up. Some think he won't amount to much.

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55 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I see your point regarding Askarov. It would be a risk, but I think it's one worth taking. He's not going to fall that far. I think McKenzie had him going 11th the latest. If Yzerman wants him, he has to use the 4th pick. In the end, whatever Yzerman does with the 4th will piss somebody off somewhere. I think Seider was the first high pick since the decline that pretty much everyone is happy with. People are coming around on Zadina now though. Rasmussen is still a toss up. Some think he won't amount to much.

This is what I don't get though... Why take such a risk with such a pivotal decision for the organization? This will be our highest pick since Keith Primeau, back in the 1990 draft. We can't afford to mess this up.

Askarov has a ton of potential. No one is arguing that. But in my opinion, he's also more likely to bust than Stutzle or Raymond. And even if all three hit their max ceiling, I think either of the forwards would be more valuable to this organization, than the goaltender. Again though, that's just my opinion on the impact of each position in general.

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5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

How does it feel to be schooled in Wings goalie history by Chaps? Smartass.

Schooled? How so? I'm well aware of our goalie history...

I'm making the point that it's more important to have elite players (forwards / defense) and good goaltending, than it is to have an elite goaltender behind good, not great players. Your counter to that was the stacked Wings teams of the early to mid 90's that came up short. The problem with that theory is that while Cheveldae and Essensa may have been bad, Vernon and Osgood weren't that much better. If anything, you're proving my point. The elite, power-house Red Wings teams of the late 90's won, despite good, not great goaltending. 

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17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be okay with a lot of different picks at 4, but if we waste our highest pick in 30 years on a goaltender, with all of those elite forwards / defenseman on the board, I'll be pissed.

If we're going to call all the skater options elite, why not also call the goaltender option elite?

https://www.tsn.ca/yaroslav-askarov-goaltender-1.1470370

Askarov.png

Admittedly, I'm not a goalie person; I don't know goalies, it's all Greek to me. (@chaps80 is probably the resident authority at the moment.) However, virtually everyone seems to agree that Askarov is arguably the best first-year draft-eligible goalie we've seen in a number of years.

To me, that puts Askarov in the conversation re: who we ought to take with our first pick. I don't think it's unreasonable to say Askarov is as good a goalie prospect as each of the realistic skater options is a defenseman/centerman/winger prospect.

Goalies are voodoo, so, yeah, choosing one of the skaters would be safer. But a wise man once said safe is death.

maxresdefault.jpg

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3 hours ago, Dabura said:

If we're going to call all the skater options elite, why not also call the goaltender option elite?

Admittedly, I'm not a goalie person; I don't know goalies, it's all Greek to me. (@chaps80 is probably the resident authority at the moment.) However, virtually everyone seems to agree that Askarov is arguably the best first-year draft-eligible goalie we've seen in a number of years.

To me, that puts Askarov in the conversation re: who we ought to take with our first pick. I don't think it's unreasonable to say Askarov is as good a goalie prospect as each of the realistic skater options is a defenseman/centerman/winger prospect.

Goalies are voodoo, so, yeah, choosing one of the skaters would be safer. But a wise man once said safe is death.

I'm going to have to assume that the post you quoted was the only one of half a dozen or so posts you actually read from me yesterday... I get skimming some posts, especially some of the longer ones. Everyone does it. But you completely missed on several of my points. Maybe you disagree with all of them, but the post you quoted completely misses the overall point I was making, or trying to make...

I fully admit that Askarov has elite potential. I still wouldn't pick him at 4th overall. I would never consider a goaltender in the top 10, under any circumstances. No matter how high his ceiling, because I believe his floor is always going to be that much lower (bust potential, that much higher).

Let's just say that we know right now that Askarov is going to be the top goaltender in the league in five years, and Raymond (for example) is going to be the 10th best winger in the league in five years. Who would you rather have on your team? For me, it's still the forward, because I believe skaters have a bigger impact in more facets of the game.

I also think it's much more likely that Raymond becomes a top 10 winger, than it is that Askarov becomes the top goaltender. Because like you said, goalies are voodoo. And like I said, we can't afford to miss on these top picks.

Believe me, I understand the intrigue in Askarov, he could be the real deal, but me personally, I'll always take the skater over the goaltender in the top 10.

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13 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yes, I recall that there were a few of us who said the Mrazek move was stupid. Cause it was. Now Carolina has a solid 28 y/o starting goalie and Detroit has Howard coming off a 2 win season at 36 y/o and will either hang em up or try to ride the pine back to the playoffs elsewhere. But we still have Bernier!!

I see your point regarding Askarov. It would be a risk, but I think it's one worth taking. He's not going to fall that far. I think McKenzie had him going 11th the latest. If Yzerman wants him, he has to use the 4th pick. In the end, whatever Yzerman does with the 4th will piss somebody off somewhere. I think Seider was the first high pick since the decline that pretty much everyone is happy with. People are coming around on Zadina now though. Rasmussen is still a toss up. Some think he won't amount to much.

 I agree the move of Mrazek was bad. I do think he benefited from the fresh start and different voices from the Carolina coaches. I also think playing behind a better team helps. If he messes up in Carolina there is a higher chance of the team bailing you out so that has to help him mentally. 

If this goalie is the absolute second coming of Price or Hasek or Roy then I would be okay with it ...I guess. 

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For every Carey Price there is a Rick DiPietro.

You DO NOT use a 4th overall pick to fill a hole that can easily be filled in free agency.

You use a 4th overall pick to draft players that are never available in free agency.

That is all.

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17 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

For every Carey Price there is a Rick DiPietro.

You DO NOT use a 4th overall pick to fill a hole that can easily be filled in free agency.

You use a 4th overall pick to draft players that are never available in free agency.

That is all.

^^^ This! ^^^

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7 hours ago, Dabura said:

If we're going to call all the skater options elite, why not also call the goaltender option elite?

https://www.tsn.ca/yaroslav-askarov-goaltender-1.1470370

Askarov.png

Admittedly, I'm not a goalie person; I don't know goalies, it's all Greek to me. (@chaps80 is probably the resident authority at the moment.) However, virtually everyone seems to agree that Askarov is arguably the best first-year draft-eligible goalie we've seen in a number of years.

To me, that puts Askarov in the conversation re: who we ought to take with our first pick. I don't think it's unreasonable to say Askarov is as good a goalie prospect as each of the realistic skater options is a defenseman/centerman/winger prospect.

Goalies are voodoo, so, yeah, choosing one of the skaters would be safer. But a wise man once said safe is death.

maxresdefault.jpg

From what i've heard from guys like McKenzie and Button, there is lots of hype. And it is well deserved by all the highlights i've seen. I dunno who was calling the ply by play but they couldn't shut up about the kid. He's only 17, 6'3, still between 150-160 lbs but he's still growing at that age and has plenty of time to put on weight. He constantly dictates the play to his skaters from the crease, great hockey sense,  very calm (Russian ice water veins lol), ALWAYS seems to be in the right position to make the stop (he was unreal in the shootouts in the U18 tourney,shooters had no room to do much of anything) catches right which is not common and can definitely be used to his advantage.

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

For every Carey Price there is a Rick DiPietro.

You DO NOT use a 4th overall pick to fill a hole that can easily be filled in free agency.

You use a 4th overall pick to draft players that are never available in free agency.

That is all.

Someone had to bring up the man of glass. What a s***ty saga that was.

From 2000 to 2019, these were the goalies who went in the first round: Knight (13th), Oettinger (26th), Samsonov (22nd), Vasilevskiy (19th), Campbell (11th), Chet Pickard (18th), McCollum (30th), Bernier (11th), Price (5th), Montoya (6th), Flower (1st), Lehtonen (2nd), Leclaire (8th), and DiPietro (1st). The first three are still too early to call, Vaz is elite, Campbell-bust, Pickard is the biggest bust on the list, McCollum-bust, Bernier is solid but best used in a tandem, Price-elite, Montoya-bust, Flower-elite, Lehtonen-rock solid, Leclaire-bust, DiPietro-bust. Of the 6 that went in the top ten, it's pretty much an even split between elite/great and bust. Of the ones that went 11th to 30th (besides first three on the list) you got one elite guy, one solid guy, and three busts. Take it all for what you will.

Those teams all took chances (some huge chances). if a goalie is projected to go high and you really want to draft him, you gotta be willing to pull the trigger and let things play out. All players can be crapshoots imo, regardless of the position. You can get a Yakupov first or a McDavid first as well...

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