2020 Offseason

[Akakabuto 1,842]

38 minutes ago, _SP_ said:

Nah. Nobody wins in arbitration.  See it all the time in MLB.  In order to win, you have to air every dirty laundry and nitpick every shortcoming a player has in order to win.    Hopefully it doesn't sour the relationship. 

http://jbudd.csom.umn.edu/RESEARCH/Baseball-arbitration-paper.pdf

I don't think you have to go all Mike Milbury on your players.

I fairly confident Stevie handled this hearing just as classy as he does everything else.

Just state your case. Show them the numbers that supports your claim. In arbitration you don't have to concern yourself about the future of the player as only 1 or 2 years can be rewarded. So any discussion about how the team views the player long term shouldn't take place at all. It's all about next year.

(I don't know anything about baseball but that's an interesting read. Thanks.)

Edited October 27, 2020 by Akakabuto

[AtlantaHotWings 1,124]

12 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

I don't think you have to go all Mike Milbury on your players.

I fairly confident Stevie handled this hearing just as classy he does everything else.

Just state your case. Show them the numbers that supports your claim. In arbitration you don't have to concern yourself about the future of the player as only 1 or 2 years can be rewarded. So any discussion about how the team views the player long term shouldn't take place at all. It's all about next year.

(I don't know anything about baseball but that's an interesting read. Thanks.)

I see Steve being classy but matter of fact in handling it.

Maybe something like

   Tyler we think you are important as we move forward as part of our core. But with this whole pandemic thing hanging over our heads I have to be smart on the usage of our dollars. For us to make a push in a couple of years I need some help for now on contacts.

So the question is what happens when Mantha gets more than Tyler or more term etc?

 

[Akakabuto 1,842]

1 minute ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

I see Steve being classy but matter of fact in handling it.

Maybe something like

   Tyler we think you are important as we move forward as part of our core. But with this whole pandemic thing hanging over our heads I have to be smart on the usage of our dollars. For us to make a push in a couple of years I need some help for now on contacts.

So the question is what happens when Mantha gets more than Tyler or more term etc?

 

Why should he bother the arbitrator with how he views Bertuzzi beyond this next season? And why should the arbitrator care at all about the usage of the Red Wings dollars?

The second part though I could see being more of an issue.

[ely s 458]

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/10/scotty-bowman-recalls-red-wings-russian-five-a-special-group.html

nice read

they were great, good old times...

[krsmith17 7,191]

38 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

So the question is what happens when Mantha gets more than Tyler or more term etc?

Nothing. Mantha should and likely will get significantly more money and term than Bertuzzi. He's a much more important player to the future of this team. Mantha is a legitimate top line winger, that can drive offense. Bertuzzi is a middle six complimentary winger, that needs help to produce offense.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Nothing. Mantha should and likely will get significantly more money and term than Bertuzzi. He's a much more important player to the future of this team. Mantha is a legitimate top line winger, that can drive offense. Bertuzzi is a middle six complimentary winger, that needs help to produce offense.

I'm not sure Mantha will get "significantly more" . In fact, he should consider himself lucky to get a contract similar to Dadonov who has outscored Mantha decidedly each of the last three seasons. While staying mostly healthy. 

So 5 x 3 for Mantha seems reasonable in Covid land times. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'm not sure Mantha will get "significantly more" . In fact, he should consider himself lucky to get a contract similar to Dadonov who has outscored Mantha decidedly each of the last three seasons. While staying mostly healthy. 

So 5 x 3 for Mantha seems reasonable in Covid land times. 

I would say that an extra $1.5M per and an extra two years is "significantly more" in "Covid land times" though... Also, if Mantha signs a contract worth $5M, that is an absolute steal, and the longer the term, the better.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I would say that an extra $1.5M per and an extra two years is "significantly more" in "Covid land times" though... Also, if Mantha signs a contract worth $5M, that is an absolute steal, and the longer the term, the better.

Yeah but you know you were thinking Larkin money when you made your sig more claim. 

 

[BringBack19 110]

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Why should he bother the arbitrator with how he views Bertuzzi beyond this next season? And why should the arbitrator care at all about the usage of the Red Wings dollars?

The second part though I could see being more of an issue.

You’re 100% correct, that is not how arbitration’s work. You present the facts and evidence to support your decision, and give a narrative to support your position. The red wings wouldn’t even directly address Bertuzzi due to testimony/cross examination not being necessary in a contractual dispute. Disciplinary case hearings are when arbitration’s get more exciting, and in person testimony/cross examination would take place. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

33 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yeah but you know you were thinking Larkin money when you made your sig more claim. 

I wasn't thinking anyone money actually. I wasn't even thinking about a particular number. I was just thinking that Mantha, being a significantly more valuable player than Bertuzzi, should and likely will get paid significantly more money and term.

[LeftWinger 5,129]

Honestly, it's only last season that Mantha would've had outscored Bert if they had played 80 games, and even then it would've only been by 16 points. The other season's they both were between 40 and 50 points.  I don't see where Mantha should get significantly more than Bert. I say $4.5M and call it. Give him a year or two to prove he can consistently get 70+ points, then reward him. He'll be a UFA either way when the contract is over, whether it's 1 or 8 years. He'll be 27 this season. You can't give him the same 2.5% raise, that would net him over $8M, so between $4.5M and $5M for a year or two and let's see him earn the $6M to $8M (or more.)  Just my opinion...

Edited October 28, 2020 by LeftWinger

[WRusco 43]

 

[LeftWinger 5,129]

At this point, whenever Mantha and Timashov sign, the roster will be pretty much filled. I know Yzerman said they still may add another forward, but I would think that he would only do so if he uses the other buyout. Personally, I like the idea of using the buyout on Nielsen or Filppula and replacing them with another C/LW/RW that wouldn't cost too much. Here are the top 5 UFA's in that position available still:

 

IMO, and this is just that, I would re-sign AA to replace Nielsen or Filpulla. Not necessarily to play C, we have a few other players that can do that, but to get a younger, cheaper and more explosive forward. I know he had a crappy year with us, and didn't do too much more to better himself in Edmonton, but with that, it may cost us very little to sign him compared to the others in the 5 above. PLUS it could be that he has a nice bounce back. 1 year, $1M to try to re-start his career again. The ONLY thing is I think he had a very bad relationship with Blashill, so maybe if we could get one of the others. I think they all would be upgrades to Nielsen or Filppula.

Edited July 22, 2022 by LeftWinger

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

At this point, whenever Mantha and Timashov sign, the roster will be pretty much filled. I know Yzerman said they still may add another forward, but I would think that he would only do so if he uses the other buyout. Personally, I like the idea of using the buyout on Nielsen or Filppula and replacing them with another C/LW/RW that wouldn't cost too much. Here are the top 5 UFA's in that position available still:

IMO, and this is just that, I would re-sign AA to replace Nielsen or Filpulla. Not necessarily to play C, we have a few other players that can do that, but to get a younger, cheaper and more explosive forward. I know he had a crappy year with us, and didn't do too much more to better himself in Edmonton, but with that, it may cost us very little to sign him compared to the others in the 5 above. PLUS it could be that he has a nice bounce back. 1 year, $1M to try to re-start his career again. The ONLY thing is I think he had a very bad relationship with Blashill, so maybe if we could get one of the others. I think they all would be upgrades to Nielsen or Filppula.

If it's character guys Yzerman wants, he'll steer clear of AA. I'd say offer Hoffman a huge one year deal with the promise of moving him to a contender at the deadline. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

4 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

If it's character guys Yzerman wants, he'll steer clear of AA. I'd say offer Hoffman a huge one year deal with the promise of moving him to a contender at the deadline. 

Wut? lol Isn't Hoffman (via his wife) the worst or something? 

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Wut? lol Isn't Hoffman (via his wife) the worst or something? 

It was Ottawa, so who knows really. But the dude would easily be the biggest trade deadline rental on the market. I know it'll never happen, but I can dream.

[ely s 458]

that would be a surefire first round pick at the TDL

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

7 minutes ago, ely s said:

that would be a surefire first round pick at the TDL

 

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

It was Ottawa, so who knows really. But the dude would easily be the biggest trade deadline rental on the market. I know it'll never happen, but I can dream.

Which begs the question: why hasn't a bottom feeder with space signed him yet? He's gone on record saying he'd take a one year deal. 

(answer: cuz he's toxic team guy) 

[marcaractac 3,963]

8 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

Which begs the question: why hasn't a bottom feeder with space signed him yet? He's gone on record saying he'd take a one year deal. 

(answer: cuz he's toxic team guy) 

Plenty of teams have shown interest. Something like 13 reported teams. Many teams can't afford to take on salary due to the uncertainty of Covid and can't afford a season without fans as is. The flat cap also restricts things for many. He had the one issue in Ottawa and there hasn't been any known issues with him since. The man wants to get paid, and that is clearly why he is willing to bet on himself on a one year deal. My guess is he gets signed when GMs have a better idea of what next season looks like. 

Also, maybe he simply doesn't want to go to a bottom feeder. Ever consider that?

Edited October 29, 2020 by marcaractac

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

29 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Plenty of teams have shown interest. Something like 13 reported teams. Many teams can't afford to take on salary due to the uncertainty of Covid and can't afford a season without fans as is. The flat cap also restricts things for many. He had the one issue in Ottawa and there hasn't been any known issues with him since. The man wants to get paid, and that is clearly why he is willing to bet on himself on a one year deal. My guess is he gets signed when GMs have a better idea of what next season looks like. 

Also, maybe he simply doesn't want to go to a bottom feeder. Ever consider that?

Then he's not asking for much is he? 

[marcaractac 3,963]

16 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Then he's not asking for much is he? 

If he wasn't asking for much he'd be signed by now. Clearly he wants more money than teams are willing to spend at this juncture, even at one year. So it's likely he has to come down in his asking price or he has to wait and see what GMs are willing to do once they know what next season looks like. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

No Nielsen buyout... 

[55fan 5,133]

At this point, it's possible that SY has contacted one or more agents, made a slightly low offer, and is now waiting to see how soon any of them panic about not playing and bite on the low wage. Just saying it's possible, not that it's true.  Imagine getting Haula for 2m and he goes back to his best year's stats and gets almost 30 goals on the 3rd line.  That would be a steal.

[krsmith17 7,191]

27 minutes ago, 55fan said:

At this point, it's possible that SY has contacted one or more agents, made a slightly low offer, and is now waiting to see how soon any of them panic about not playing and bite on the low wage. Just saying it's possible, not that it's true.  Imagine getting Haula for 2m and he goes back to his best year's stats and gets almost 30 goals on the 3rd line.  That would be a steal.

I'd be okay with this, but even more than calling agents with low ball offers, I hope Yzerman is calling other general managers offering to take on bad contracts in return for 1st round picks. There are teams that still need to shed salary to sign cheaper players / fill out their roster.

[krsmith17 7,191]

51 minutes ago, NineLegs said:

To think Yzerman is the only GM lowballing players is quite shortsighted.

Anything we can lowball a better team can too. We're not getting Hoffman.

Who said Yzerman is the only GM lowballing players?