K whoever thinks Tootoo is a dirtbag you clearly dont know Tootoo and ur just making assumptions about him
I know 2 different people who have met him and both said the guy was the definition of classy and respectful. One was my friends mother (she's a diehard wing/hockey fan, hates the preds) and she described him as one of the nicest and most polite men she has ever met. I don't remember the whole story of how she ran into him, but something like he ended up going way out of his way to get her a signed puck and stuff. He's been her favorite non-wing for a while now. I think all you Tootoo haters are gonna get to know this guy and really like him.
I'm not talking about Tootoo the person. I'm talking about Tootoo the player. And he's a dirty player.
He's bitten guys, thrown cheap hits, and often drops the gloves and starts swinging before the other guy even realizes he's in a fight.
Like I said, my biggest issue is he's a dirty player and not good defensively.
Lucic and Franzen both have 4 million dollar cap hits. Lucic is $100,000 more, but I digress.....
Lucic: 26 goals and 35 assists in 81 games Franzen: 29 goals and 27 assists in 77 games
Interesting how they have the same numbers from production, and get paid the same. Would I rather have Lucic? I have a feeling the drones on this forum would ***** about him as well.
As for Simmonds, he is paid $3.5 million for lower numbers, but he has a high upswing if things continue to go his way.
Point is that you haven't shown me a "power forward" that is doing better than Franzen for the same cap hit.
The exact point was that they put up similar production to Franzen and are two actual power forwards.
Both Lucic and Simmonds play physical, fight, and score. Franzen floats and scores. He is in no way a power forward.
And Simmonds is 23 years old and Lucic is 24 years old, so they're likely not at their full potential. Remind me how was Mule at 23?
Hockey isn't just about scoring goals, I'm sure Howard would love not having the puck in his zone 70% of the game. Franzen is just not consistently winning battles along the boards, using his body, and backchecking. I don't see why people are trying to defend Frazen, it's clear as day that his effort level is not always there.
I don't think anyone is saying we don't need the goal scoring he does provide. It's the lack of effort he displays some nights.
The babcock quote earlier in the thread sums it up well.
Is this why Zetterberg and Datsyuk make almost twice as much as Franzen? I mean, you get what you pay for, right?
They don't make almost twice as much as Franzen, their cap hit is just higher. Franzen is signed through 2020 with the last 3 years being 2, 1, then 1 mill to get his hit down. That's about Holland's cap manipulation, not their relative pay this past season.
Mule was paid $5.25 mill this year, compared to 6.7 for Dats and $7.4 for Z.
Either way I don't think floating is something that should be excused by a player's salary. Teams that win have players who bust their ass to fulfill their role every second of every shift. That sure doesn't sound like Franzen.
It's not that I think the Wings should trade him, but I'd love for Babcock to sit him when he's floating out there.
How many of you give 100% effort at your job 100% of the time? How many of you have played a sport, tried your damndest and things just didn't go as well as you wanted? It's a sport. It's an exhausting sport. Not all your shots will go in. Not everything always works. And sometimes you get lucky.
I understand it's frustrating when you feel like someone is not trying, but for what he provides and what he is paid, Mule is an absolute steal. He's not going anywhere, no matter how many times people suggest it on these boards.
No he wouldn't. He's getting paid the same no matter what now, that's how contracts work. That is unless, of course, he has bonuses in his contract, but I'm too lazy to check.
29 goals for a sub $4M player? I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
That seems to be Babcock's thinking, because if the Wings didn't depend so much on what goals he does score, I'd have to think he'd get demoted for his floating.
Like I said, when Dats and Z aren't doing great you can still see them working hard out there. Franzen takes too many shifts off.
And I'm not asking him to be as disciplined as Lidstrom is year round with his training and diet regimen. I'm just hoping he'd work his ass off for the 18 minutes a game he's on the ice.
18 minutes. If you can't bust your ass for that long every game, how self-entitled and complacent have you gotten??
Need a break down to how bad Zetterberg was to start the season. He was god-awful bad. Also Lidstrom was pretty bad at the end of the season/playoffs.
If Franzen was consistent like very few NHL players are (like Crosby), would Franzen's cap hit be under $4 million? I don't think so.
In essence, Franzen is a bargain right now and will be extremely difficult to replace his offense for under $4 million per year. I would only consider trading Franzen if it's for a younger, tougher, more proven offensive power forward (NOT CHRIS STEWART OR PENNER TYPE GUY)
The difference is that when Datsyuk and Zetterberg are on cold streaks, you can see them working hard, backchecking, going to the hard areas. Something about their game just seems a little off or the puck's just not going in but you can see the work.
With Franzen it feels like he works hard for the first part of his shift and if he doesn't score right then he can't wait to coast back to the bench. He's got great size, a great shot and great hands. It's all about his compete level. or lack of it.
When he scores in a game, it's like it reminds him how great it is to score. It lights a fire under him for the rest of the game and he keeps getting great chances and often scores again. If he's not scored in a while though he seems content to just whip it at the net and see if it goes in.
Yeah, if he retires he comes off the Cap, so its a no-brainer signing by the Penguins and well deserved by Sid. This guy literally saved their franchise from moving to Canada and built them a new arena.
Bobby Mac's speculating that the final 3 years will be 3-4m (when he's 36+) That's far from ridiculously low and not an unreasonable age either. Zetterberg and Franzens deals are still worse offenders in that sense since they get paid less in the final years at an older age, this deal won't have a problem going through it looks like, if Bob is right.
And honestly if Crosby remains healthy (and assuming the league remains financially healthy), he'd be a steal at $3-4 mill a year 10 years from now.
That's all fine and good, but it still poses the same underlying problem as the Zetterberg, Franzen, and (original) Kovalchuk deals...Crosby is not like other players. There is a significant chance that a major concussion could end his career...at ANY time. Look at what happened with Pronger, by the way...he might be done.
Is Crosby retires before his mid-30's, the deal cheats the Cap, end of story. Is there any good reason why the cap hit isn't simply determined by what the player makes THAT year? Isn't that how the NBA does it? I suppose you could then back load contracts, but that risks pissing off a player who may never see that money at the back end.
Crosby's risk is definitely higher given his concussion issues, but honestly I don't think it's tremendously higher than any given NHL player. They could all suffer a career-ending injury pretty much any game.
And if his career is ended that way, he's no longer playing for the team so I don't really consider it cap circumvention. The most egregious cap circumvention to me is when they pay a player well below what he'll likely be worth at the end of his career or sign a contract that is almost certainly longer than the playing career of a player based on his age not health.
If you think about it though, what arguments do you have for Shanahan over Sundin? Yes, he scored more goals, but Sundin still had 564 goals. Sundin scored the same number of points (give or take a few) in almost 200 less games. I also think Sundin's international experience is a little more accomplished than Shanny's.
I think Shanhan's very low points per game stat hurt him. He'll get in eventuall though. If you look at this year's list, I could argue Shanny over Sundin, Oates or Bure, but you could argue the other way too. The only non-argument would be that Sakic is a lock over them all.
Oates...much better ppg than Shanny, but after that, not much to say.
Bure....the question mark there is the fact his career was cut short....did he do enough? I think his talents were superior to Shanahan's, his gpg and ppg stats blow Shanny's out of the water, but that has been shown in the past not to matter much when you are talking about shorter careers. Bure waited awhile to get in though.
I think the difference is Shanny was a power forward. And one of the best. He's the only player in NHL history with over 600 goals and 2,000 PIMs.
He's got equal leadership to Sundin and three more Cups. The points per game isn't as good, but they played different positions. He's the 2nd most goals by a left winger behind Robitaille. And he did that playing the left wing lock years in Detroit and stepping up to drop the gloves.