As for Crosby's "GREAT" character what do you say about other players in the league saying the same thing that has been said here about how he acts or conducts himself?
I can't believe I'm coming down on the side of stinky fish taco, but he never said anything about Crosby having "GREAT" character. His point was that with the way people talk about him here you'd think he acted like Sean Avery. And he's nowhere near that kind of idiotic behavior.
What players in the league? Do you have links to all this Crosby bashing? The only criticisms I remember is from geniuses like Adam Burish. And some Russian players supporting Ovechkin. And maybe some stuff early on in his career, mostly the first season.
Like I said, he has some sort of douchey quality that makes him easy to hate, but in terms of what I've actually seen him do on the ice or in interviews, he's not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He's whined in the past. He's dove a handful of times that I've seen. His repeated crosschecks on Zetterberg deserved a beatdown. But all that is hardly unprecedented in hockey and he's not the worst offender of any of it. Most of it seems like hate because of how good he is and how sick we all are of him being the NHL posterboy.
After this last season, it'd be hard for anyone to beat the Sedins for whining, crying, and diving (at least among star players).
The Wings have won 13 Prince of Wales trophies and 6 Campbell bowls. The Flyers have 4 and 6, and the Blackhawks 2 and 5, respectively.
Franzen's career high is 59 and he has only cleared 50 points one other time in his career, being last season. Given his age, injury history, and performance over the past couple of years I would call 50 points a "good" season. A "bad" season based on his past couple years would be 25 or 30 points. Of course this is LGW, where Franzen is expected to put up *another* 40 goal season, despite never having done it before.
Also, if you are saying Smith beats out Commodore for the 7th defenseman, he's still in the press box. Which keeps him in Grand Rapids. So I'm going to assume you meant the #6 spot. And given the roles on the team, it's likely Smith would also have to beat out Ericsson or White for time to make the jump directly into the lineup this year.
Franzen's career high is 63 points. In 2010 Franzen had 21 points in 27 games, so by your math over an 82 game season he would've scored 63.7 points (I rounded down). So his last three seasons he's actually averaged around 60 points.
I don't like to get in players faces about anything on their free time, but I would have loved to tell him how much respect I lost for him in the finals...
Then of course remind him all the respect would return if he one day signed a cheap contract for the Wings.
It may just be wishful thinking, but I'd like to think that if he got on a team with a different culture and more character, that part of his game would improve. He's already matured a lot in Vancouver, and that's with the Sedin sisters flopping all over the ice as role models.
I'd hope that around players like Dats, Z, and Cleary, he'd be less inclined to pull that crap. Especially after having to answer to Babs if he ever got a diving penalty. He's too talented and has to many other great aspects of his game to be pulling that garbage.
I really hope he never plays again. I don't get any pleasure out of saying that, I just think that certain players hurt the game more than help it. Crosby fits into that because so many little ones look up to him and all he does is play extremely well skill wise and extremely poor ethic/gamesmanship/sportsmanship wise.
I am in the opinion that nothing is more important now than to be a good example to the kids on how to act gracefully in whatever they do.
I am awful sick of dealing with people who think it is okay to act the way Crosby and other superstars act.
what poor ethic, gamesmanship, sportsmanship?
My main knock about Crosby in that arena was I'd never heard him credit the other team's players in a loss. And the first couple seasons he did a fair amount of whining and diving. But all that seems to be improving and he's only 24. When asked what player he'd build a team around, he picked Zetterberg for chrissakes. And he's always been gracious about crediting his teammates.
So I don't see what's so disgraceful about how he conducts himself, especially compared to other star players like Henrik Sedin, Joe Thorton, and even Ovechkin.
Don't get me wrong he's definitely got some quality about him that makes it easy to hate him, screaming like a little girl when he scores. Being generally a goober or something, and mostly just because he's so friggin good, but there's no question he busts his ass out there.
I guess that's just a long way of saying that if we're talking about poor sportsmanship, there's plenty of guys I'd pick over Crosby, even if we're just limiting it to star players.
I think you are high. He is close to being a lock for the HHOF... but I don't think most voters will justify 6 years as a true career.
That might be blind distaste for him, but I just think most voters look for reasons to exclude people.
I tell you what, if Crosby gets in right now. I will be extremely pissed if Osgood doesn't get in.
Which really is better? An amazing short career, or a consistently strong long career?
You can look at that list of achievements and then say I'm high for thinking he gets in? Joe Niewendyk was just inducted to the HHOF remember. Who cares that it was 6 years? So if someone had played 15 years and had Crosby's resume, they'd get in no problem?
It's not about what's better, the long career or short tremendous career. But for the 6 years he's been in the NHL, Crosby has been consistently one of the league's elite players and racked up a lot of hardware.
Hopefully he'll start playing again and the discussion will be irrelevant, but Crosby's going in the HHOF even if he never steps on the ice again.
And for those rooting he never plays again, they should really think about what they're saying. If they're sick of hearing of him now, wait til they constantly hear about "what could have been" and "the greatest career cut short."
Bottom line is that if you're mad at someone for taking their life when the individual never was able to get control of his/her depression shows you simply don't understand how the disease can fully consume them.
I agree its kinda hard as fans and hockey players who would do anything to play in the NHL and live the life he was. Its hard to imagine how someone could be depressed when hes living the dream life of millions of people. But depression is a disease in which it wont spare you even if you are living an amazing life. A clinically depressed individual can be living a perfect life and have everything they ever wanted for themselves, yet still be depressed, its a disease that is swept under the rug way 2 often, just because you can be in perfect physical health, but not emotional health.
Both well put.
People suffering from depression don't commit suicide to be selfish assholes. They do it to end pain. It's psychological, but it's still pain and can be constant and unbearable.
It's definitely a disease that's swept under the rug too often. Major depression is not the same as just being sad, or cynical, or negative. It comes from brain chemistry and from the depths of who a person is, and is not something that millions of dollars or playing a sport you love will change. Honestly the regular exercise and routine of practices and teammates probably helped, but sadly it wasn't enough.
All that being said, I can understand being angry. Even not blaming Rypien, it's a frustrating, tragic situation. I want to be pissed at somebody.
Crosby was apparently just about "ready to go" late last year and then all that s*** was happening with Matt Cooke and then Mario Lemieux running his flapper about the NHL being bush league and then mysteriously, Crosby is no longer ready to go and will miss the rest of the year and maybe playoffs.... Lemieux made stupid comments and then Matt Cooke destroyed all his credibility and then Crosby's health suddenly took a turn back to the worse...nothing happened there where Lemieux was trying to back up a little and have his franchise player to sit to try and make his previous points valid all the while punishing Cooke for the media...ok.
as far as keeping it quiet...every week there's a new article on Crosby as though we're gonna forget his NHL God. they're publicizing every time he takes a painkiller for christ sake. look back on TSN's recent articles for NHL. there's enought to write a book on blindside hits and concussions.
and Crosby was doing conditioning the whole time to stay in shape so he could have played anytime he got back to full contact practices. we'll see just how over his career is when he misses maybe the first 5 games this season and is leading the league in points at the 10 game mark of the season with 14 pts in 5 games... the NHL can't afford to lose him. all the bleeding hearts will petition to have hitting removed from hockey if his career is over.
So the Penguins intentionally sat their star player (who was on a 1.61 PPG pace before his injury) for part of the regular season and playoffs, to make some vague point to the league?
Which statement? Of course we have no concrete proof, or else NHL's marketing system would not have done its job well. Steroids and other enchanters have the possibility of leading to a instant unexcepted dead.
NHL players use stims etc., period. Bigger more physical guys (such as fighters) are more likely to use steroids where as players who rely more to skill may only use restoring stimulants.
To be clear, you're making baseless accusations. No evidence, links, nothing.
Not directly, necessarily. Rypien has to do with the unexpected deaths lately. And the unexpected death's have to do with steroids etc.
I didn't know this was a "R.I.P thread" in the Water cooler. I thought you are supposed to actually discuss in the General discussion section. My bad.
Of the unexpected deaths, only a couple could even be loosely tied to potential steroids or doping.
You really can't see how people might get upset when you come into a thread about a hockey player who just died, and with no evidence at all imply that his death is due to steroids. And then go on and lump a bunch of other hockey deaths in the same category, when they clearly had no link to steroid abuse?
Steroids and other that kinda stuff that doesn't belong in the human body. The leagues just don't want to talk about it because it would look bad from a marketing perspective.
Did you post this in the right thread? What the hell does steroids have to do with the people Hockeytown mentioned?
Dan Snyder - car crash Luc Bourdon - motorcycle accident Mandi Schwartz- leukemia Derek Boogaard - substance abuse problem, but it was alcohol and oxycodone Zholtok - arrhythmia, no evidence of steroids Cherpanov - inconclusive, but no solid evidence of steroid use or doping
Karma for all the diving he did/does when he barely gets tapped....now he knows what a real hit feels like!
...besides, he come back and play half the season and they will "give" him another trophy, the Masterson Trophy. Then they will fill the NHL airwaves full of talk about what heart and dedication he has, and how he is the only "true champion" for coming back from his injury. I can see Eddie Olczyk (and Carmen) wiping the jizz off his face already.
I have no sympathy for him as a player (as a person I do hope he is ok to live a nice life,) this is what happens when you start believing the hype and think you are bigger than the game...the game stands up at the blueline and knocks you out...Eric Lindros part II...
I have several issues with this:
What has Crosby done to give indication that he is "bigger than the game?" He didn't get his concussions from getting stood up at the blueline. Lindros kept skating through the middle with his head down, probably from growing up playing against guys so much littler than him. This is no way the same thing as what happened to Crosby. Crosby isn't even in the top ten of divers in the league. He did it more early in his career, but he's nowhere near what half the Vancouver and Sharks teams were doing in the playoffs.
True, but the only reason this is going to hurt the league, is because, as you pointed out, they've dedicated like 90%+ of their player marketing soley to Crosby.
I've always felt this was absolutely retarded, for this exact reason. What happens if he gets seriously injured and is out for a long period of time, or worse, his career is ended early? You screwed yourself. If they had decided to market a lot of great players instead of putting all their eggs in the Crosby basket, then if one of those players gets hurt, it doesn't have as adverse of an effect on the league. Hopefully they will learn from this, but honestly, they probably won't.
Losing one of the best players to ever play the game is going to hurt the league for more than marketing reasons.
I get sick of all the Crosby marketing and wish they'd spend more time promoting other players, but that's not Crosby's fault.
Honestly I hate the little f***. I think he's still kind of immature and he has some little-***** like quality that's easy to hate. But he's 24 years old. There's still time to grow up. And he's an incredibly talented player who works his ass off.
I just don't get how so many hockey fans would want one of the best players in the game not to be able to play. Even if just to hate him when the Wings play. I've hated a lot of great players over the year, in part for that reason, because they were great and they kept schooling my favorite players. But it makes it so satisfying when you defeat them. It makes for great rivalries.