You would think to be the best PPG playoff performer of the "modern era", he'd have to be first in the category at least once in his career.
You must be new to sports?
Your attempts at diminishing Crosby are hilarious. He's a career 1.323 PPG in the postseason. Of active players, only AO is higher. Of course because of the Caps postseason flops his stat is based on 25 fewer games. None of the other guys you mention are even in the ballpark for career PPG.
So yes, Crosby missed being #1 last season to Franzen by .04 ppg, but if I had to choose I'd rather have the player who averages 1.32 PPG in the postseason for 62 games in his career than the one who manages to lead it for 12 games one playoffs.
And for the regular season, Crosby averages 1.388 ppg, which puts him top among active players and behind only Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, and Orr.
Some Red Wings playoff ppg, by comparison:
Zetterberg: .952 (he's the only active Red Wings in the Top 50 all time) Franzen : .867 Datsyuk: .752
It may not be the most politically correct time to delve into the issue of drug abuse, if they ever address it at all, so I don't think that'll be covered much by the league.. the media might touch upon it, but right now looks doubtful.
And the NHL can only be someone's nanny so much. Certainly oxy nor alcohol would help Boogaard on the ice at all. It would help quite a bit in managing injuries especially if suffered through fighting, or in his case he had been out for months due to post-concussion symptoms.
I don't see the league touching this at all. They likely just want it to go away, because it's not a huge leap from concussion to depression to substance abuse to death. It's just a grim reminder of how hard making a living getting punched in the head can be.
They were just the ones who came to mind then and there. But hell Masalskis played great for Latvia, but the team fell on their faces. I just think you are way too quick to crown him, especially while Ovie is playing better hockey than Crosby, and has been for a while.
But the point of the matter is, it is a team sport. One player can't carry a team like some want to believe. If you notice the Pens didn't do half bad after he went down for the year either.
Up until this season that may have been true.
I don't even really know what this is about anymore though, other than another stupid thread about how much Crosby sucks.
Actually they are. Did you thread this entire thread? See quote from CupforWings below:
<<Crosby is more then just another talented player... The guy is a beast, is 23 years old, and was on pace for 120 or more points. I hate Crosby as much as the next guy, but he is one of the most talented players of all time. Hopefully he is able to recover and keep putting up monster points like he was this year.>>
And... Actually I think the success of the NHL relies on the fans putting up money to support the league by going to games, buying merchandise, and watching games on TV. Sid is only one player who can only effect these factors in a limited way. I completely disagree that the future of the NHL lies in the hands of Sidney Crosby. Example: this years first round playoff's have brought record nielsen "shares"/tv auidence in many, many markets. Sid's wasn't even in the playoff's this year. Compltely disagree. Is it better with him, of course. Will it fail or "fall back into the shadows" without him, no. If I'm a Tampa Bay fan am I NOT going to support my team and go to games, buy jersey's, follow them on TV because Sid is not playing for the Pens? Ridiculous.
Rocket Richard trophy Stanley Cup (and another Finals appearance) Art Ross Pearson Hart Olympic Gold Medal World Junior Gold medal
has 82 points in 62 career playoff games and had 66 points in 41 games this season before his injury.
All before he's what, 24 years old? If a Red Wings player had done all that you wouldn't call them one of the most talented players of all time?
I think he's a snotty little ****** much of the time, but Crosby is already one of the all time greats, and it's bad for the NHL if he's not playing. Wouldn't it be bad for the NHL if Datsyuk wasn't playing?
It's still a canadian game and Sid is a Canadian superstar. Or course they're going to talk more about him. Yes, it'd be great if they focused more on some of the other great players in this league, but that's not his fault. And honestly, I've been an Ovechkin fan but Crosby is clearly the better of the two, and the gap was widening before his injury.
Yzerman of course. Same reason Emperor Palpatine wanted Luke Skywalker to replace Darth Vader as his new apprentice.
Holland has accomplished a lot here, but every GM moves on eventually, and I would have loved to see Yzerman move in as Wings GM because he'll always be a Wing to me.
Only problem I see is him being conflicted and loyal to players he used to play with, which is a large part of this team. I think he would have felt uncomfortable making moves on some of these players who were his former teammates and friends.
But alas, it's too late. Yzerman is not going to leave Tampa anytime soon. Doesn't strike me as that kind of person.
Holland just re-signed for 5 years anyway. But when that contract is up, seems like a perfect time for Stevie to come home. Let Stevie get more experience under his belt there, and by then most of the guys he played with for years in Detroit will be long gone.
There's no way the Predators are letting their captain go, unless they're scrapping that team. And even then the Wings fitting him under the cap would probably require Lids retiring. Any offer big enough to keep the Preds from matching would have to be huge, and cost the Wings a ton of picks. I'd love to have Weber, but he'd cost the Wings too much.
Doughty is the same thing.
And no thanks to Frolov, for those who are mentioning his name. Instead of a space in the Wings locker room they could just build him a doghouse, because that's likely where he'd end up given his questionable work ethic.
For all the beef he gets, Homer plays incredibly smart hockey. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and he plays a style that maximizes the opportunity to use his strengths and minimizes the chances that his weaknesses will be exposed. He's the best in the league (still) in front and around the net and plays a smart cycle. He won't be the first guy out of the zone, but that isn't his job. In fact his job is usually quite the opposite: to hang down low until the puck definitively leaves the zone. There have been a lot of times where following an offensive zone turnover, the rest of our team bails and starts back-checking only for the puck to be turned over again just inside the blue line. The team knows to just get it deep because Homer is still down there and will be able to hold the puck down low long enough for the rest of the team to reestablish the zone. Most other teams just dump the puck (ie turnover) and fall back into the trap. I've seen Cleary, Bert, and Abby follow this pattern on more than one occasion as well. Anyways, the rest of our forwards are pretty well rounded. When you play alongside Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, you can afford to not be a great backchecker, or have strong playmaking/stickhandling skills.
I like what Homer can bring to the table. Still.
Agreed. Homer has an extremely limited skillset, but he does make the most of it. The biggest factor in him being worth his contract or not is if he stays healthy.
And I also think he doesn't get enough credit for his puck retrieval skills. Datsyuk is great in the corners because he's a pickpocket and dipsy-doodles and comes out with the puck. Homer goes in and just hacks and whacks and battles and often comes out with the puck, then dishes it to a playmaker. If the puck ends up in the corner, he goes and battles again and dishes it off. And will do it again, and again, and again.
"Having played center most of his life, Ericsson enjoys an impressive skill-set. He has excellent mobility and agility for a player his size, possesses solid hands, has above average puck skills, and makes a very good first pass. His shotís not too shabby either, having recorded a 100.1 mph slap shot at the 2008 AHL skills competition.
But donít let his soft hands fool you. He plays a physical brand of hockey with a willingness to protect his teammates by dropping the gloves."
I highlighted what was talked about him by almost everyone. A big shooter that wouldnt think twice about taking care of business. Sounds like Nick crossed with Kron to me. Isnt that why they were pairing him with Nicky during the 09 cup? I remember them saying that he was being taught to play like Nick. That ended in failure. Ill give you this, he finally stopped trying to poke check pucks away and at least attempted to get in front of it as well as he could.
As far as his size is concerned, you claim he add some size at the blueline as an asset. What good is size if he is either unwilling or unable to use it? Potential is one thing, hell I had the potential to be an NBA basketball player except I didnt shoot good enough for a guy that is 6'6". Just cause Im tall and have some size doesnt mean I was able to play at the level required for the DRW. He is far from physical and a serious pushover. Like I said and you seem to acknowledge is that he doesnt use his body to his advantage.
His first pass is fine as long as there isnt a forecheck that is worth a damn on the ice. His dump pass into the zone is scary soft and almost always ends in a quick outlet pass the other way right past him. Again potential vs results. Potential:10 Results: -100
As far as saying that it sounds like an emotional argument from you and some others, you sound like a codependent spouce of an alcoholic. "Hell get better" is the operative phase. We arent rebuilding a team last time I checked, people like myself expect results from the team. I get angry because he is given too much time and as of yet I dont have an indication that he is gonna get dropped.
As far as his failure as a player being blamed on him? What can I say hes out there on the ice and he aint doin s***.
As far as it being Holland fault instead? Who are you gonna trade him to? He thought he was gonna be awesome just like Babs and everyone else including me at the time. He actually played ok in 09 but that must have been freshman luck cause 4 months later and he stunk to high heaven.
Its Hollands fault if he keeps him. Like the saying goes, Trick me once shame on you, Trick me twice, Shame on HOLLAND.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree about how good he actually is and what hes worth.
Oh and Salei is no better, except that he volunteered to not play for weeks at a time. That was nice.
I didn't say he shouldn't be blamed for his failures on the ice. What I actually said is he shouldn't be blamed for Detroit's defensive aging core and Holland not making bigger moves to replace it. He's just one player and is only responsible for his performance.
Though I have no idea why you'd think it, even from that Bleacher Report article (which is basically a blog by a Wings fan, isn't it?), but if you seriously thought Ericsson was going to be a cross between Lidstrom and Kronwall, I can understand why you'd be disappointed.
I've stated my case. If you've actually read my posts, I think I've given a fair assessment of Ericsson and am not pinning it on some grand hopes he'll improve one day. But you've misrepresented so many of my points here it's not really worth continuing. You hate Ericsson to an irrational degree. You're in good company here.
For his size he should easily be leading that category, should he not? Helmer hits more effectively and is quite a bit smaller, Hell D hits harder than Ericsson.
Turnovers are way more telling and the breakpoint for a Defenseman. Unfortunatley there is no live stats for time holding the puck. At that point you can determine how effective a player is at holding on to it while its in his possesion. Youre going to expect players that have the puck a lot such as D and Z to have more turnovers on average. D-men dont have the puck as much so they shouldnt be turning it over.
Your logic is flawed.
Detroit relies on their defenseman greatly to move the puck up ice more than most teams. It's why they have guys like Lids, Rafalksi, Kronner, and yes, Ericsson. They may not be holding on to the puck as long, but they're making a lot of passes out of their own end under high pressure situations. Having to make a tough breakout pass that often is going to lead to turnovers.
In the regular season, 4 of the 5 players with the most turnovers were Rafalski, Ericsson, Stuart, and Kronwall. The fact that Lids is so far down the list is just another reason why he's so damn good.
Look at Rafalski, he has 1 more turnover than Ericsson in the regular sesason but has over 30 points MORE while playing 11 games LESS.
So for people to somehow say that Raffy is no good need to get their head examined. He trails only Nick in points for Dmen.
We can breakdown box scores and stats all day and I still dont see any compelling proof that he has what it takes for our team. We have the opportunity to bring in some known good talent to bolster our D and he should be first to go
Kron has established himself as a banger and de is one of the best in the league.
Jiri Fischer was a banger and unfortunately was probably sick more than he wasnt
I dont expect points from Kron, I expect him to destroy people. Ericsson was brought up to be somewhat like Pronger, a big guy that should be able to establish position with his body and be able to shoot due to being trained as a forward. He cant do either, hell he cant bring a puck up ice for christ sake.
If we kept him hed be best as a scratch player coming in for injured players. Bottom pairing with 82 games is too much for such a crap ass player.
I wish I could see optimism in him as some here do but I see a lemon, no more and no less.
Ericsson was brought up to be like Pronger? Where did you get that idea?
That may have been your expectation of him, but I never heard any coach or scout thinking he could be Pronger. As I said in my other post, a knock against him has always been not using his size well enough and not having mean streak.
And did you really just compare Rafalski to Ericsson? If you expect E to come anywhere close to Rafalski in points, it's no wonder you hate him.
Firstly, that was how he was touted to the fans. Big Rig, Big E... "forward turned big man on the ice" -Hows that working?
"He was drafted dead last" -Kinda proves my point
By who? Who said that he would be the next Lidstrom who hits like Kronwall? I never heard anyone say anything even close to that about him. Babcock called him a stud in one quote, but that's about it. Even in Grand Rapids they were saying he needed to bulk up and play with a mean streak. Eeven among his supporters I don't remember anyone here ever saying he'd be a Lidstrom with Kronner's hitting. Actually, anyone comparing any d-man on the Wings to Lids AND Kronner would get laughed at, for starters.
I couldn't find the Red Wings prospect review, but on hockeys future they said he could develop into a #4-6 D-man, which still sounds about right.
Exactly what point of yours does his being drafted last prove? My point was it should give some indication of expectations for him, or how the fact he's in the lineup at all is a win for the Wings.
"Hes a servicable bottom pairing guy" -Please define "servicable" cause putting somethin g into service and having it work well are two different things. He brings no upsides and as of yet I have heard none of them other than what seems to be emotional needs for him to play well.
"If the Wings can find someone better and cheaper, Great" - You have my verdict on how good he is. For equivalent money I could find some decent talent that needs a bit of polishing and has grown up a Dman. Ericsson is 27 almost 28, he is getting past his prime quick and has shown nothing to prove hes good. For 2 mil a year there would be a line of guys available for the job that could be 4th man maybe 3rd.
" It's ridiculous how much hate he gets here as the #5 D-man. There were much bigger issues with the team." -Short memory eh? We and everyone else knew that our D was falling apart a few years ago. We needed up and coming Dmen to learn to take over for our aging guys. Now that we are at the point where we need capable guys to fill vacating spots its far from rediculous to be upset with who was supposed to be an up and comer.
The way I see it, if we needed a guy that needed time to grow he would be on the Griffins.
So tell me, what makes Ericsson so good?
Emotional needs for him to play well? I'm not sure what you're referring to. You seem to be the one who has a lot more emotions involved when it comes to Ericsson.
I have talked about Ericsson's upsides in several posts. His biggest asset to the team is probably his puck moving ability. Ericsson has a very good first pass. Better than Stuart and Salei. It leads to some brutal turnovers because he doesn't seem to have it between the ears yet. But it's his second full season. I'm guessing Detroit is hoping his decision making will continue to improve and there will inevitably be growing pains as he tries to stretch his role on the team.
His size is also an asset. He's not as physical as he should be, but the Wings blueline is undersized and he provides some. He'd be a greater asset if he played nastier. And to be clear, I'm not saying Ericsson is some awesome defenseman. But he's big, somewhat physical, will drop the gloves on occasion, good passer, cheap, relatively young, and could still improve. Put that all together and he's a decent bottom pairing guy.
And now you're saying $2 mill to replace him. If we're talking about re-signing E for that, then that does add to potential other D-men out there. I was saying around 1.25 mill.
No short memory here. Again, you seem to be angry because Ericsson didn't turn out to be a savior for the Wings defensive corps. I don't think anyone realistically thought he would be that. Everything I saw he was projected to be a #4-6 d'man. If he turns out to be that, it's a win for the Wings. And either way I don't see why Ericsson should take all the blame for not replacing the Wings aging defensive corps. Isn't that Holland's job?