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Member Since 11 Feb 2004
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#2534258 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 14 August 2014 - 02:11 PM


I dunno, harold. I think over the course of this five year drought we've always been a couple key pieces away from seriously competing for the Cup. At the same time, our prospect cupboards were empty, and the brain trust has done a really good job of re-stocking. Right now we have one of the better prospect pools in the league, and I think we're still just a couple key pieces away from being a serious contender, because we still have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen. I think that's rebuilding on the fly. Over the course of a few years you remain competitive, maybe trying for a UFA home run here and there - but the focus is on keeping the competitive core while building up a solid stable of very promising young players that will hopefully complement that core and one day take over. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco have broken through, Smith and DeKeyser should take big steps forward this season, and we're also looking at four or five very good D prospects waiting in the wings, Anthony Mantha being no more than a year away, and our goalie of the future spending his final season as a Griffin.


I (want to) believe Ken Holland has been doing what he's been doing for good reason and that the past few years of "futility" are going to pay off in a big way.


Admittedly I don't know a ton about our prospects. Historically though people here tend to talk like they are all going to make the roster and contribute in a significant way when the reality is that most prospects don't shake out. 


My big problem is that even if the Wings are a couple key pieces away from a serious Cup run, Holland isn't landing them and is content to sign some aging vet (and likely former Wing) to fill that hole.  The Nyquist situation was absolutely ridiculously and hurt the team.


I think Babcock has done a tremendous job given the mish mash of spare parts he's had to work with over the last few seasons, partly due to injury and partly due to Kenny.  

#2534256 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 14 August 2014 - 01:50 PM


Best post in this thread.  I agree 100%.


Yes, I am not happy with Holland's lack of success when it comes to luring free agents.  At the same time though, he has kept us competitive.  We continue to make the playoffs, and people forget that a year ago, we took the cup champs to 7 games and had them on the ropes up 3 games to 1.  The cup champions last season were #6 in the western conference.  Making the playoffs, being healthy, and getting some puck luck is really all it takes to win the cup these days. 


For those of you who want to see Holland gone, I would challenge you to find a GM that is better on the market right now.  I see no reason to ditch Holland now in exchange for someone unknown or unproven.


I know I am happy with the work he has done in the past, and even though the Wings haven't won the cup or been to the cup finals since 2009, I am good with this signing.


That's a pretty easy challenge for you to win considering you never really know who is on the market as a GM until they take a job somewhere.  :lol:

#2534248 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 14 August 2014 - 12:20 PM


Its not like the guy scheduled a two week vacation to the moon and skipped free agency the last few years.  There's plenty of info that suggests he kicked a ton of tires, made several intriguing offers, and in most cases those players chose not to come here for various reasons.  He's not soley to blame for our recent downturn.  You don't lose people like Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Osgood and replace them all right away...in some cases you may never be able to replace talent like that.


Holland's job is extremely difficult but all that matters are the actual results, not how many tires he kicked. 


Dan Cleary tries as hard or harder than anyone on the team but I don't see people giving him a free pass because of all the plays he tried to make but failed.


And Holland should have been working on a transition plan for Lidstrom's retirement for years.  Him participating in the ridiculous Suter sweepstakes was a pretty good indication that he didn't have one.  The reality is you don't replace Nick Lidstrom.  You have to reevaluate and restructure the entire team.  Holland keeps making moves like it's 2008.

#2534213 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 14 August 2014 - 09:22 AM

Honestly, I'm disappointed.  


Holland has pretty clearly run out of ideas these last few seasons, so I don't have a lot of hope for significant changes to rebuild the franchise over the next 4 years.  


Who knows though. Maybe he'll finally realize the crap he's done lately isn't working? Maybe??  



If I were Babcock I'd start looking to other teams.

#2534119 Who is YOUR most under-appreciated/unsung Red Wing?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 August 2014 - 05:33 PM


And of the Pens 2009 Cup run.  If I ever see Brad Stuart anywhere, I'll do this.......








I liked Lapointe.  Good checker, great in the playoffs, cool goatee and the ladies loved him.


Then he went to Boston and robbed them of lots of money.  


Yes, yes, I know.  The Wings lost the Cup because of Stuart.  Or was it because of not suspending Malkin?  I can never remember which.  It surely couldn't have been that they got outplayed by a hungrier team. 


By pinning the Cup loss on Stuart, you're kinda making my point.  He's definitely an underappreciated Wings player. 

#2534099 Who is YOUR most under-appreciated/unsung Red Wing?

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 12 August 2014 - 02:50 PM

Brad Stuart


The guy was a key piece of the 2008 Cup win. 


#2533694 Candiens, P.K. Subban agree to 8 year contract

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 04 August 2014 - 05:02 PM

Ya I completely agree. I know in the playoffs they talk a lot about him and sometimes he shows his high emotions. But at least he cares nothing irritates me more then when people have show no emotion. It's ok to be happy and pissed at times that apart of hockey.


Agreed.  Doughty is very much the same way.  


I wouldn't want the NHL to start looking like the NFL where every minor play is celebrated like they just won the Super Bowl, but these are young guys playing a sport they love.  It's okay to have fun and show some emotion. 


I also like that he admits that he likes to throw hard hits so he regretted going after OV for a clean hard hit.  


Lucic's nut spearing and butthurt antics in the handshake line are much worse than anything I've ever seen Subban do. 

#2533687 Candiens, P.K. Subban agree to 8 year contract

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 04 August 2014 - 01:37 PM

Here's Subban with his NBA attitude, putting himself above his teammates, putting himself above the league, and generally making it all about himself. 





(I was being sarcastic)



In interviews and what I saw on CH24 he comes across as one of the more well spoken and humble players in the league.  

#2533608 Candiens, P.K. Subban agree to 8 year contract

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 03 August 2014 - 11:55 AM

Sure for me it means: acting like you are above the team, over the top celebrations, butting heads with your coach and/or teammates. I really can't stand such attitudes stopped following soccer after it became more like the NBA too, I think this trend with more and more young cocky guys such as Kadri, Yakupov, Eller and him is alarming :( Their franchise is and has been Price Trust me I understand the whole microscope point that's why I've said pay him a bit more and be done with it. I really thought the arbitrator would have awarded less.. If I'm paying 9 per for a defenseman my first priority would be can I trust his defensive skills when the game is on the line? And just like Karlsson I wouldn't they are offensive defenseman and good ones at that but not reliable in their own end.


How has he acted like he is above the team?  What over the top celebrations?  I've seen him be incredibly excited for a goal but I've never seen him do a dance over a flaming stick or anything.  It sounds like their relationship is actually fine now but Therrien is as much to blame with his handling of Subban and any friction there. 


If they thought the arbitrator would have awarded less, they would've done that.  They just locked Subban up for his prime years and he's likely only going to get better. 


Like I said, I'm not even particularly a huge fan of the guy.  I just don't really understand why he gets as much criticism as he does for what are usually very minor things.  I don't lump him in with the guys who are sliding down on one knee and pointing their stick at the goalie like a rifle.  Or flopping all over the ice to draw penalties.  Guys like Ryan Clowe can interfere with the play from the bench and it's somehow no big deal.  Shawn Thornton squirts water in Subban's face during play and it's somehow just gamesmanship.  


Can you imagine the reaction if Subban had done that to someone? 

#2533574 Candiens, P.K. Subban agree to 8 year contract

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 02 August 2014 - 10:12 PM

- Fighting your team mates

- NBA attitude

- risky in your own zone

- putting yourself always over the team


= reward 9 million per, I always thought this guy is Montreals version of Karlsson but Karlsson doesn't come with attitude problems. Ok he  is playing under an absolute microscope so give him 0.3k per more that's 6,8...but But what do I know Montreal - like someone has quoted - is it's own hockey universe. And all of a sudden even on an 8 year contract Webers 7,85 AAV is an absolute steal, same goes for Doughty, Keith, Chara, Suter, Pietrangelo, Vlasic, Kronwall, Seabrook, McDonagh, Phaneuf.


Man the arbitrator  really must have hated Montreals presentation 82 million for 8 years ...


as for their lockout: As long as we aren't changing the commissioner they are going to come prepare for it and since fans are always crawling back, nothing will change. The only way to stop this crap is for thee NHLPA to decertisfy


Care to explain exactly what an NBA attitude is? 


Putting yourself always over the team??


I was never really a fan, but on CH24 he just seemed like a young, goofy, outgoing, but humble guy.  When he made stupid mistakes during games he was the first one to own up to it.  He seemed immature when he came into the league but as you pointed out he is absolutely operating under a microscope so his every mistake is magnified a thousand times.  He is only 25 years old after all.


He's an extremely talented young player, a Norris winning defenseman, and their franchise.  He got pretty much what people expected, especially given his bridge contract.  The Canadiens just locked him up through all his prime years.

#2533305 Samuelsson signs new contract....... with Djurgarden.

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 29 July 2014 - 02:51 PM

As fun as it is to bash on Sammy, I'll never forget him for starting and finishing this play:



Also the two opening goals in Game 1 of the 2008 Finals against the Pens.


And the hundreds of logo shots.




All shin pad assassin jokes aside, Sammy was a bargain during his first stay here in Detroit.   He had good size, was irritating to play against, and put up good numbers for his salary. 


It's just unfortunate that Holland keeps repeating the mistake of bringing back former players, but I hold no ill will for Sammy. 

#2533084 Favorite Dan Cleary Moment or Play

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 27 July 2014 - 04:02 PM

Best part of that is he doesnt seem to have been pushed and the puck is on the other side of the ice lol

Never trust a gif.
He was crosschecked in the back prior to running into the crossbar.  Part of the reason he reacts the way he does is it looks like he hits his face on the crossbar.
And he was going hard to the net to get open for a pass or rebound.   It probably looks unfamiliar because he's one of the few Wings players who does it.  


#2532503 Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 July 2014 - 04:55 PM


That's legit, but nobody is remembering how Quenneville nearly did the exact same thing to us with those Blues teams in the late 90's that were significantly less talented than our Cup teams.  And he was coaching against Bowman. 


One of the reasons that I think Quenneville is a great coach?  Of the 15 times he's made the playoffs he's won the Cup twice and lost to the eventual Cup winner 7 times including three times to the Bowman Wings (widely considered some of the greatest teams EVER to play hockey) of the late 90's and early 2000's.  The best teams Babs has lost to?  Quenneville's Hawks a year ago. 


Before he hooked up with the Hawks though, he made it out of the 2nd round of the playoffs once in 10 years as a head coach.  Losing to the eventual cup winner in a first round series doesn't really count for much to me. 


Babcock took out the 2003 Red Wings in 4 games with a Ducks roster that wasn't exactly stacked with stars and got them to game 7 of the Finals.

in 2007 he took the Wings to the Conference finals, losing to a great team and eventual Cup winner in the Ducks . 

In 2008 he won the Cup

In 2009 he went through the Ducks, still a very good team, and beat Quenneville's Blackhawks (the next year's Cup winner), then took the Pens (who people here don't like to admit but were a great team) to 7 games.

In 2013 he took the Blackhawks to game 7 OT with a lineup that had no business hanging with the Hawks.


I think Quenneville is a good coach, but I still put Babcock a notch above him.  

#2532498 Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 July 2014 - 02:37 PM


Babcock is ONE OF the best coaches.  I agree.  We just happen to disagree on him being THE BEST coach, which is what you said initially.  And it's not like he came on to a bad team either.  Any argument made in his favor is equally valid for Sutter or Quenneville who, nevertheless, have more Cups. 


It's obviously opinion at this point but there's no way I'd want Quenneville over Babcock.  Sutter maybe.  I think Sutter outcoached and exposed the Hawks this playoffs, and Babcock almost did it the previous year with a helluva lot less talent. 

Here's part of the reason I think Babs is a great coach. 



"The way I look at it here, if you don't want to be coached, don't come here," Bacock said via Detroit Sports 105.1. "If you want to be pushed to be the best that you can be, that's what we do here. You know what? The proof is in the pudding.

"If [the Wings] are concerned about [free agents not liking me], then I should coach somewhere else."


Am I warm and cuddly every day? I am with my family. I think I care a lot about my players. When you care about people, you make them do it right. When you don't, and there's lots of coaches that don't, then their teams don't do it right and they don't have success. We just have the hard meetings. We get it out front. Does it piss people off once in a while? Absolutely. But it also leads to behavioral changes and getting things better. So you know what, I'm not apologizing for that stuff at all.




#2532387 Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 17 July 2014 - 05:36 PM

The Wing's front office obviously realizes that fans are upset, because this is pretty clearly Babcock doing damage control for Holland. 


Here's an article also referencing the interview.  


"Last year, he didn't bring anything," Babcock said. "But the year before, he was a key, key component leadership-wise, forechecking-wise, heavy on the puck-wise, just being a heck of a player for us."

He added that the investment was made after receiving a vote of confidence from the team's trainer regarding the status of Cleary's troublesome knee. 

"We've been told that his knee’s really come on. If he’s on one leg like he was last year, he can’t play on our team. 

"If he’s on two legs, he can help us win."





I guess we'll just wait and see what the future and Cleary's knee holds. I'm also not sure how much confidence I should give their trainer given the Wing's extensive injuries last season.