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on Scotty Bowman... You hated him for 364 days of the year, and on the 365th day you received your Stanley Cup Ring. Steve Shutt

Somebody hurry and rescue uk_redwing.

We need a suicide watch on uk_redwing STAT!! esteef

I have heard he expects a lot out of his players, but this is the NHL, not Peewee hockey on Saturday mornings. I have not heard that a lot of players badmouth him and refuse to play under him. In any event I think the point is moot. You know who else was described like that? Scotty Bowman.

How did I "lose" the argument? This isn't a competition, it's a discussion. Quite juvenile, young chap.

Meaner and didn't address their horrible PK. Hope Crawford enjoys facing 40 shots a night

...and hookers

I like this from Kenny. He did a good job at addressing our biggest need Defense. Money left to acquire a pretty good name at the trade deadline if needed. Wings have to stay healthy and I still think they will move Hudler for a bag of pucks. Lets be honest one of the biggest years in free agency will be next year. Currently scheduled for free agency next year include names like Patrick Sharp, Brad Stuart, Nick Kronwall, Ales Hemsky, Dustin Penner, Drew Doughty, Ryan Sutter, SHEA WEBBER, Pekka Rinne, ZACH PARISE, Keith Yandle, Bret Burns, Steven Stamkos, Mikeal Grabovski, Mikel Samuelsson, Alex Semin, Karl Alzner, Zach Bogosian. The point is there are a lot of big names next year on the market. The Wings are saving money because one of these names will be signed by the wings next off season. So just relax for now and enjoy the season. We still have the best Defenseman in hockey and two of the best forwards. We will be fine maybe even win the division.

With that cap hit it won't last long in Phx if they are not a playoff team. Someone that needs defense will give up a ncie package for him IMO.

^ Tie!! esteef

There is definitely a list. You asked me where the list is and I told you. Of course it isn't in this thread. I made it a few days ago. You implied that physicality did not matter in today's NHL, which is far from true. If physicality had no place in today's NHL, how would guys like John Scott and George Parros have contracts? Of course Hatcher couldn't play after the lockout, he was built for the pre-lockout NHL. The 2010 Championship team has nothing to do with this thread. Again, this thread is about the Hawks acquiring physical players, not championship teams of the past. They're meaner because Brouwer and Campbell are gone, and Carcillo, O'Donnell, Mayers, and Montador are in. They will be more physical, not saying they will be a better overall team. I'm not popping my balloon. I'm just fine. Thanks for checking

Kenny is never done....

Aw, the juvenile "No, I won the argument!" comeback. Every player on my fabulously concocted list played on NHL teams last year, so I don't know where you're getting minor leaguers from, maybe its for the sake of "Winning" the "argument"? I'm quite positive this thread is about the Hawks, is It not? Sound the title out, I have faith in ya.

What's wrong? "Lose" the "argument", now you've got nothing to say?

Lets see how Wiz feels after being with the Blue Jackets for the next six years...see if he still feels the same way about being a "good fit" for one of the most storied hockey franchises in history. See how life in a college football insane (only) town goes when no one in town could pick him out of a line-up. See how he feels when he tells locals that he plays for the Blue Jackets and they immediately ask "what is hockey??", tune out, and walk away mumbling something about the Buckeye's. See how he feels when he's consistently at his summer home in early April. Like it's been stated before, "nothing says hockey like the middle of Ohio" (not Ohio bashing, used to live there for many, many years...but it's the absolute truth about Columbus). Hope that few extra Mill on the contract goes a long way because he may just slowly slip away into non-existence from here on out. Maybe a change in perspective for him. Ask Mike Commodore (regarding statements he made about Bab's), things change real quck and burning the bridge of not just a coach, but an entire organziation...on top of that...his hometown team...THE Detroit Red Wings.... = not so smart. Thanks for the compliment Wiz and I hear soy sauce makes Crow taste a little better. May want to start acquiring that taste now.

Yes, I was looking at the free agent list for next summer and Doan jumped off the page and gave me a blindside headshot.. but seriously, the guy would be the biggest pick-up since Shanny/Hasek/Rafalski. He'd be exactly what we need to compliment Franzen, a guy who can stick up for him and drives the net hard. Phoenix's ownership problems along with the constant team moving rumors has got to be getting to Shane, the guy has been the Coyotes best player by far against us in the past 2 playoffs, and while you hate him when he's beating up on your team, he'd be my favorite player if we were to acquire him. For a chance to win the Cup, I think he'd waive his NMC too, I know he's said he wants to stay with the Coyotes for life.. but there's just nothing there anymore. They lose Bryz, Jovo, amongst others. They are barely better then Edmonton now, and we're a Shane Doan type away from winning the Cup. Seems like a perfect match.

Wings general manager Ken Holland said he didn’t see the quote and then added, “I take that as a real compliment. That’s a tremendous compliment. For us to accomplish what we we’ve accomplished and we don’t pay market value that’s a compliment.” http://redwingsfront.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/market-value/

It seems you're just determined to hate Holland, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time, and I hate to derail the thread... You can't really 'plan' to be this good for this long, especially with the veteran-heavy strategy that's been so successful. Low draft picks mean few top prospects. Older players mean fewer trade assets. Plus normal FA attrition. Plus losing Konstantinov and Fischer... It is nothing short of remarkable that we have remained a legit Cup contender every year of Holland's tenure. No other team in the league has even made the playoffs every year. Many haven't been a contender even one year. While of course much of that success is due to Nick, Pav, and Hank, much is also due to Holland carefully planning for both the present and the future at the same time. We are still a good team as we are. Good enough to win a Cup if we get hot at the right time. The Sharks got better on defense, but worse at forward. Vancouver and Chicago both lost a good defenseman without really replacing them. LA looks a lot better but they started behind us and we still have to see how they'll gel. Columbus got better but so what. Nashville is worse on defense and still doesn't have an offense. In the East Washington looks good, but still have that choker label to shed. Boston is about the same, Philly looks worse, TB still has work to do but doesn't look like they'll be any better, and Pittsburgh with a healthy Crosby may be the best team right now, assuming he doesn't disrupt the effort/chemistry they found without him. In short, I don't see any team that we aren't capable of beating. I'd say right now we're just outside the group of top contenders, and a bit ahead of the dark-horse range. In short, we are not in a position that we need to dismantle anything, or make desperate moves now just because it seems like a good idea or because 'well, we need to do something'. My point on Pav and Hank had nothing to do with them leaving as FAs. Pav is 33, we have maybe 3-5 years at most with him as a dominant player. Hank not much, if any, longer. It takes time for prospects to develop. Even if Jurco (who is 18 by the way) joined the team this year, and is a star in the making, he still might not be ready to take over for Pav in 3 years. Pulu and Jarnkrok are still in Europe. It's not a matter of 'picking and choosing' prospects, whatever that is even supposed to mean. It's that we don't have top 5 picks that are NHL ready on draft day. We draft guys that have a lot of upside, but also need a lot of development before they can play at this level. Pav and Hank both spent 3 years in Europe after we drafted them. Mule might have come straight over if not for the lockout, but he was also 24 when we drafted him. Guys make the team when they're ready (Helm and the stacked '09 team notwithstanding). This isn't a game where we can just do anything we want. Other teams aren't going to trade for our s*** just because we offer them a lot of it. And there are very few sure bets that even might be available. Yandle looks great, but he could also stagnate or even regress. Even Doughty isn't a sure thing. Making short-sighted moves now may pay off, or may leave us in the same situation but with fewer options. We have a good team. We have good enough pieces that it won't be the end of the world, even if Nick retires and we don't get an all-star to replace him. We have options at the deadline. We have another summer of free agency. We do not need to make a rash decision. If a good trade is there, great. If not, we need to be patient. Yeah, it sucks that none of the better defensemen made it to free agency. Sucks that the Sharks had the right parts to land Burns. But that does not mean we need to make dumb moves.

Well, since mj said it... Stop posting here if you are going to keep whining about the gloom and doom of the Wings. You can make an honest discussion about the Wings' future without sounding like a baby. "The bottom line is that top to bottom, this might be the worst Wings team to take to the ice since 1991. " One of the most moronic statements ever made. Let me know how straight talent worked for Detroit in 95, 96, 01, 03. It's about structure, and the Wings were a single game away (don't forget about the injuries and s***ty luck the Wings dealt with in round 2) from making it to the conference finals. You aren't sounding like a realist. You are sounding like a straight up pessimist.

Stamkos is to young to be holding out for big money...sign a 2-3 year contract...4.5 per...Score 50 two of those three years then you are a franchise type kid...right now you are a young budding talent. Your first year was a dud, and showing signs...but if you want Vinny type money...you need to prove that you deserve it...at this point in his career, I don't even think Vinny is worth that much money anymore...

And all he did was lead (or tie for the lead) in team playoff scoring for the next two seasons, and come through in the clutch in his third playoff season as a Wing. I will never let anyone believe that Robert Lang was anything but a positive force for the Red Wings during his time here. Welcome to sports man. Nothing guarantees anything.

You shouldn't really compare a defenseman's contract to forwards. Different roles, different teams, different market value. Ericsson was overpayment that hopefully he may earn one day soon, but there's plenty of examples of overpayment when you look at the UFA's that are defenseman.

Anyone think there might be a reason why none of the legit contenders were willing to sign Ehrhoff, Wiz or Kaberle to big contracts?\ Wiz doesn't have the body of work to justify a 6 year 5.5 million dollar cap hit on a real team. I wanted the Wings to sign him but not for a deal like that. I'm glad Holland isn't the kind of dumbass GM who makes a signing in the summer just so he can have a big, exciting press conference to make all the fans happy. If there isn't a piece that fits the Wings in terms of the team AND the salary structure the smart move is to look for other options. I just checked the calendar and it's not October. I also checked NHL.com to see where the Wings were in the 2011-2012 standings... looks like we're fine there as well. Let's not flip out just yet.