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I remember my first beer.

Did Cleary f*** your mother? Steal your credit card number? Torch your house? Your hate for Dan Cleary is bizarre. We know Cleary is getting old. We know there are better options. Give it a ******* rest.

Yeah who would want a solid #3-4 d-man when they could roll the dice with a late 1st rounder or gift-wrap a spot in the top six to a college kid who has never played a game in the NHL?

Datsyuk should def. be on the cover as its fitting (number 13). If EA went with the fans vote, it would probably be Kessel or Karlsson.

Its funny though, Babcock is calling out this teams physicality in an article on mlive but than if a poster or 2 say it on here its terrible and blasphemy. Guy gets a few negatives for saying what Babcock has been saying as well, go figure

I just don't see how it does any good to have a guy like Nyquist play on the 4th line with bad players. Might as well send him down and call up Andersson to play those minutes or just give them to Mursak. Guess I would rather have tough players on the 4th line then useless ones and top 6 forward prospects who waste away and get lost for nothing because they never had a chance to showcase in a larger role. Not saying this will happen with Nyquist but it probably will with guys like Emmerton, Mursak, and Andersson.

I didnt really think that the bump on Conklin was retaliation worthy. That being said, I thought what Jack Johnson did to Filppula early in the game deserved a punch to the face. Johnson literally steam rolled his head with his fist (knocking Fil down), then shoved him and fash washed him while Fil was on the ground. I also didn't like the end where Zetterberg was taking shots as the horn blew

Nothing new here and I agree 100%, but this conversation is going to go nowhere good

That won't happen as long as Holland is still GM. He has a huge boner for this roster as it stands. That's why, despite him saying the team "NEEDS TO GET BETTER" after being eliminated by San Jose AGAIN last spring, nothing changed. He replaced Rafalski with White, Salei with Commodore, Modano and Draper with Emmerton and Mursak, and Osgood with Conklin. 4 of those guys retired and had to be replaced. White is the only one who's really panned out well. What else? NOTHING. Is the team "BETTER"? NO And the only deadline move the last 2 years was getting Quincey back... aka fixing a mistake from several years ago. NOTHING WILL CHANGE. EVER.

That's just The Madden Curse

I saw the headlines earlier and just assumed Babcock saw your thread and is giving it a second thought.

I would have preferred to see (last night's game): Nyquist - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi Filppula - Zetterberg - Hulder Franzen - Abdelkader - Cleary Miller - Emmerton - Holmstrom Let Franzen get his legs back with Abdelkader and Cleary doing the grunt work. Whenver Franzen gets hurt or comes back from an injury he seems very hesitant. I think had he been put with a couple of guys that can do the dirty work (a lot more consistently than Bertuzzi) would be good for Franzen. Then once his skating legs are back if you want to slide Franzen back with Datsyuk then go for it. But I would have started Franzen on the 3rd line

But we have a potential 40 goal scorer that can be readily available for the right price this very offseason. Why would you not even want to try for a player who's talent can make the players around him better?

With the playoffs so close, it's a smart move to let Howard rest and feel 100% better.

Just because I'm spiteful, go Coyotes.

The Score

Don't know which side to take here. I agree with both arguments. On one hand, it seems strange to continue to leave out your #1 goaltender if he is apparently healthy with so few games left before playoffs. And shielding him specifically from the team he'll more than likely face in the first round seems a bit odd, too. That being said, if Howard is on the fence about whether he is prepared or not, and coming back early means having an unprepared, cold goaltender in a crucial head-to-head with major playoff implications, I side with Babcock on this one. This team playing as sloppy and inconsistent as they are, it really is going to depend completely on which skaters show up to play, less so on which mediocre or cold goaltender you have between the pipes. Leave Howard out another 3 days, make SURE he is healthy, get him more practices under his belt, and prevent any possible confidence buster that might come with playing cold behind this Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde team against your first round opponent. Nashville is a defense first hockey club, and the Red Wings are going to win or lose Friday depending on what they do in the trenches to improve their play and score goals. While a fluky Conklin goal may still be the difference, a soft goal with a cold Howard is probably equally as likely, with more downside.

Well put. Players like Franzen are never made accountable for sub-par effort. I'm sure its partly to do with the Wings wanting to the avoid media drama that comes with benching a guy you have contracted for the next 9 years, but whatever it is, something has to change. There are way too many passengers on this team and Franzen is the primary culprit. On pace to match his disappointing totals from last season, and the excuses are running out and wearing thin. Zero effort and zero accountability. Nyquist has been an instant success with the parent club because he actually works. Skates, creates, gives the defense fits. Datsyuk, and hell, even Bertuzzi looked like they could thrive with that sort of player completing that line. Add Franzen and Bertuzzi goes back to floating and Pavel gets wasted on two big bodies that watch from the faceoff dot as he does all the work. Holmstrom has looked more effective the past few games than Franzen has in a month. For the love of God and Pavel, give him something to work with! Franzen can rest on his laurels in the press box, sit him close enough to Holland for Kenny to give him the stink eye the whole game.

When Eaves got hit I worried that he was hurt really badly, I wish I'd been wrong. If his career ended because of that puck that would break my heart, I love him as a Red Wing. (on another note, if his career were to end, I also feel for Josi, I can't imagine how bad he must have felt initially and ending somebody's career would be a terrible way to begin yours)

I agree with keeping Nyquist-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi together. Franzen can play elsewhere. esteef

We do now that Franzen is back. What's the point of playing a guy who seems to be hurt and is only hindering the team? Just call up another guy from the minors if need be to take his place.

Whatever the reason for Cleary's downfall, if his play is hurting the team, he needs to be sat.

Contractual agreements come to mind. I guess you could always track him down and finish him off. Then youd probably complain about the next hobbled up guy on the team and finish him off After a while we wouldnt have any Red Wings cause you finished them off too Then youd complain that we didnt have a team. That would suck for everyone. Dont make it suck for everyone.

Can't really see how helm or eaves factor into your argument as neither really have a timetable for their return.