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I like our team. We kicked the tires. Darren Helm is our big acquisition; remember, he wasn't available to us when we faced the Predators. We have to think long-term, big picture. We can't just go out and add a couple big names, that's the reality of the cap era and parity. We only have so much spending money. Danny Cleary. Certainly we have gotten bigger, tougher, younger, faster - and there's still a whole lot of time left and a wealth of options. The CBA means we're not going to see any more big deals. (Shae Weber does not exist; he is a hoax.) We like to think of our power play as our enforcer. Youth. You can't win the Cup ever year.

I love this "even if we do nothing, we're fine" attitude. Stupid, arrogant.

Dobberhockey perspective:

you say aging vet...i say proven experienced leaders you say unproven youth...i say potentially very talented young guns you say pessimism....I say optimism Look, every team has holes...last year our holes were: grit, forward depth, back up goalie, sniper....Now they are: defensive depth, sniper We filled more holes than we dug....gone are the days of stacked teams with no holes, get used to it.

I don't think he is at all. If anything, he has been more active this offseason than most during the salary cap era. He went after both Parise and Suter. He made a bid for Rick Nash. It has also been reported that we are interested in Shane Doan, and possibly Alex Semin. He spoke with Weber's agent to see what could be done to bring him to Detroit. Unfortunately for us Wings fans, we are in the same division as the teams most of these players are coming from. Columbus and Nashville would have a really hard time trading their respective stars to their division rival. Suter had narrowed down his list of teams to Detroit and Minnesota. Too bad for us Zach Parise wanted to move back home while convincing his pal to join him. The Doan sweepstakes has been said to start at 4 years at 7.5 mil per year (more than both Dats and Z get paid annually). Semin has been said to be a locker room 'cancer' that some wings players, "don't think to highly of." What can Kenny do? The man has reportedly attempted to bring every name on the market this offseason to Detroit. He is the victim of unfortunate circumstances this offseason. The allure of joining the Red WIngs organization is not fading away. Ken Holland has tried as hard as any other GM in the league to land the Wings a player of significance this offseason. Eventually, he will succeed. If he sees a player that will help us win, rest assured that he will do everything within his power to bring them here. We still have a ton of money to spend through free agency and trade this offseason. No one knows what the cap will look like after this new CBA. We still have to save for the raises that Jimmy and Filp will be getting. The trade deadline may also have a few 'sellers' that may want to unload. He knows our D isn't as good on paper as it has been in the past. He knows that we need another top 6 forward to help support our main guys. When the oppurtinity arrives, the Wings will be make their move. Don't worry. In Kenny I trust.

Holland's lost nothing, it's called the Salary Cap era. If we want Detroit to be a top destination again, get rid of the Salary Cap. We can spend based on what we bring in instead of being weighed down by broke teams like Phoenix, Florida and Columbus.

We were on the biggest free agent defenseman's short list of 2 teams, Nash's short list of 6 teams and I thought I heard Doan said he was interested in Detroit at some point. I don't think Detroit has completely lost its luster. It was going to take a hit when #5 left no matter what, I think we'll be ok.

Holland knows that building from within is the secret to success in a parity filled league. He doesn't overpay free agents or overpay in trades unless it's absolutely perfect for that reason. Plan A is always to build with homegrown talent and not to overpay for outside help. Holland has already assembled the next wave of quality prospects so I fail to see how he has lost his mojo. No we won't be a favorite to win the cup this year, but over the next few seasons our prospects will be entering the league, giving us an influx of cheap and talented youth. It begins with Smith and Nyquist this year. Holland knows the game better than anyone/

One's gotta think Holland has had a hard time selling the program in recent years. I mean, yes we're an original six team with a previous winning tradition. However, we're also a team with an old, dilapidated arena, a team who just lost their franchise player, full of aging veterans and unproven youth....a team, playoff wise, has been going the wrong direction for the last 4 years..... Yeah, doesn't really scream "attractive" does it?

I think even the outside world is starting to question whether we've lost our mystique. I am leaning on yes, there will be some difficult years ahead. I think with this present roster, we'll be fighting just to make 7 or 8th spot. http://sports.yahoo....01313--nhl.html Detroit Red Wings GM Ken Holland is considered the best at what he does, which is maintaining a consistent contender in the Western Conference with legitimate designs on winning a Stanley Cup each season. Along with Coach Mike Babcock, Detroit's recognized as having the "gold standard" for management. Yet the Red Wings' offseason has seen better talent depart than has been added the roster. Nicklas Lidstrom retired. Brad Stuart left for the San Jose Sharks. Jiri Hudler signed a 4-year deal with the Calgary Flames. Meanwhile, the Red Wings inked Maple Leafs backup goalie Jonas Gustavsson, Nashville pot-stirrer Jordin Tootoo and Mikael Samuelsson, for a second tour of duty after playing with Florida last season. The real frustration for the Red Wings: They have $13 million in cap space, and were unable to land a premium upgrade to the defense. Ryan Suter of the Predators flirted with Detroit, who courted him heavily, only to sign with conference rival Minnesota. Nashville captain Shea Weber, meanwhile, spoke with Detroit but Holland was never given the option to sign him to an offer sheet, as he did with the Philadelphia Flyers. The Predators didn't engage in trade talks with Detroit, seeking to move Weber to the Eastern Conference. In some ways, it's inconceivable a team like the Red Wings would be on the outside looking in on these free-agent blockbusters. Which is why Holland is being criticized for Detroit's lack of reloading this summer, as the power shifts in the Western Conference. Matt from Ultimate Hockey Source on Holland "losing his moxie" as GM: Despite the Red Wings signings of Jordin Tootoo, Jonas Gustavsson, and Mikael Samuelsson, Holland has once again disappointed fans with the lack of a big move. In years past, it was Holland stealing great players and assembling the perfect teams, but this has failed to happen recently. His last ditch effort of making a move for restricted free agent Shea Weber has even been stomped on by the Flyers. Even if the Wings manage to sign Shane Doan, or perhaps trade for Bobby Ryan, their defensive unit as it is will not be enough to carry them to the Stanley Cup next year. If Holland can't regain his moxie and make a high impact trade and the Wings fail to make the playoffs, you can bet that people will begin to call for a replacement. George Malik offers this dose of reality on the Wins perusing Alex Semin and Doan: I hate to use the line because it even annoys me at this point, but as the Wings continue to aggressively pursue every option to improve their team, they've still got to sell their "program" to players instead of tossing $6 or $7 million at a player simply because someone else is bidding for said player. It makes me cringe to say that, mind you, but it's the truth. Because of that spend-thrift ideal, Chuck Pleiness of the Advisor & Source (MI) wondered last week if the Wings had "lost their luster" as a destination for free agents: "Once you make those types of decisions you're out of the game for a decade," Holland said. "We're not going to have major announcements every year, the league doesn't work like that. I'm confident that at some point in time, and it might be next year, that the history, the tradition, the commitment of our ownership and the passion of the Red Wing fans is going to all add up to us bringing a player of significance here." … "We're going to try and do some things," Holland said. "We have some cap space so we'll see. But it has to be the right fit whether it's a trade or someone wants to come here. We're working the phones so we'll see. "At the same time we're in a cap world," Holland continued. "We're moving some younger people in. If we're not moving younger people in we're going backwards. Brendan Smith has to play. Gustav Nyquist has to have an opportunity. Jimmy Howard is 27. We signed Jonas Gustavsson and he's 28. Darren Helm is 25. Those players have to be a part of where we're going." Seeing where Doan and Semin end up is essential to determining whether Holland's in a rut or simply hasn't landed his big fish yet. He's been hindered by some forced beyond his control: Ryan Suterwanted to play with Zach Parise in Minnesota; Nashville wouldn't let Weber slip to a division rival; and the same could be the case for Rick Nash and the Columbus Blue Jackets. But perhaps the greatest question: What does he do to fill the holes on the blue line? Keith Yandle, if available, would be a great start.

Ok, so what would you have done? Keep in mind, Suter and Parise wanted to play together, and Parise is from Minnesota, and Columbus and Nashville don't want to trade with us. Would you really overpay for Doan or Semin when we have some young forwards ready to step in and play? Why not just see what we have this season, then add to it. I agree we need to add someone on the blueline, but if Suter would rather join Parise in Minnesota and Nashille didn't want to trade us Weber, you would you add? And how would you add? I think it's clear that drafting and developing players is the way to go now. The way the FA market is under the current CBA, it's really not worth getting locked into 13 year deals, and making players that may not even be the best guys on your team your highest paid.

I really do hope that we swing a trade for Bouwmeester. He was fantastic in Florida, and would do great in our system. It's not his fault that Calgary over payed for him. It's painfully obvious that he does not fit well in Calgary's system. I would also love to see Mr. Holland try to work a trade for Volchenkov. He would be a perfect replacement for Stuart. Not too mention, that I think we could get both of them for reasonable prices. Kronwall - Bouwmeester Smith - Volchenkov Ericsson - Quincey That is not a bad set of defenseman at all.

This isn't a panic thread. Why does anything critical or objective or just non-"Holland can do no wrong" have to be panicking or "hating"?

LOL...people do realize this was posted in April, right?

If Lidstrom hadn't retired no one would even be questioning him. So we lose one Dman to retirement and another to uncontrollable family circumstances. How does that in any way reflect upon his abilities as a GM?

I find it difficult to avoid personal attacks because I get frustrated by people who I believe are unreasonable. I want to respond with rational debate, but I feel like it would be pointless. Case in point: You say Suter and Parise did not want to play in Detroit. The truth is only that Detroit did not end up being their top choice. There's a big difference there. A player may want to play for multiple teams, but they can only choose one. Expecting everyone to want to play here more than they want to play anywhere else, and concluding that if they don't it means they didn't want to play here at all is irrational and unreasonable. I said as much in my previous reply and you still failed to grasp the concept. Hence why I feel rational debate is pointless. There isn't any great organizational malfunction that needs to be addressed. No dereliction of duty. No flawed schemata. s*** does happen. We missed out on a couple free agents, s*** happens. It could be just a speed bump, or it could send us right off the track into a catastrophic crash. This is what is supposed to happen. This is how the system is designed. What goes up must come down. Since when is maintaining a top contender in perpetuity the new standard for adequacy in sports? What franchise, ever, in the history of any sport, has remained among the elite for nearly two decades without a single blemish? Maybe it all isn't as easy as some think. Maybe things don't happen just because you want them to or because you can write them out on a message board and make them sound reasonable. Maybe when decisions are made, even those based on impeccable reasoning, they don't always work out. Maybe you give a solid effort but still fall short. Maybe sometimes those failures compound into situations that have no ready solution. Maybe speculating in hindsight on what might have been done better isn't the best way to evaluate performance. Maybe "consistently exceeding all reasonable expectations" shouldn't be what we expect from our management. Maybe a guy with such a sterling record deserves a little more respect. Maybe we can give a guy af****** break. But I guess it makes us feel better to rant and finger-point. Have fun with it I guess. I'll continue trying to resist my more choleric urges.

Boumeester is allot better defensively than Quincey and takes about half the penalties. I would also be willing to bet that JBo outperforms Suter offensivley next season if he indeed becomes a Red Wing. If the Cap ceiling doesnt drop too much Id do this for sure ... if its gets cut 5 or 10million then his contract is a bit worrisome. Hes no Nick - but who is? Hes expensive, doesnt have playoff experience, and plays soft. Despite those drawbacks I think his upside (age, size, speed, versatility, skill + offensive upside, and laid back demenaor) all would make him a good fit on the ice and in the dressing room.

He can, and would, here... Florida, then Calgary... I think that's all that needs to be said... He would thrive in the Wings system, and I would put money on it, that if he came here, he would have better numbers next year than Suter...

I'd rather see the Wings in dead last place than saddled with his terrible contract.

You act like he was just speculating about Weber's lack of interest. But the reports all indicate that Weber's camp said they weren't interested. At that point submitting a formal offer is basically pointless. I suppose you could assume they were just lying about not not being interested, because I'm sure that happens in negotiations all the time. Then after they reject the first offer, you should assume it was an accident and send another. Then you assume they were just kidding around, then spilled coffee on it, then were playing hard to get, then needed to burn one for warmth, then wanted to make paper airplanes, then experimenting to see if they can re-combine all that paper back into a living tree... Hell, just fax him an offer every minute of every day. Send af****** parade of Korean bike messengers with confetti guns to rain tiny pink, blue, and yellow formal offer sheets all over Nashville. Due dilligence, you know. Or you could just assume that no means no. Not like you would really be satisfied if we had submitted a formal offer and were rejected.

Seems like he was a day late and a dollar short, asking after Philly had already all but sealed it.

For the second time in LGW Forum history, I agree with Dabura.

What does Burrows have to do with toughness? I may not like some things about Tootoo, but he legitimately a tough little dude. Burrows is a finger biting, diving, whining agitator. He makes Ott look classy. No thank you. There's very few players I can honestly say I'd be embarrassed to have on the Wings, but Burrows is one of them.

Time will tell if it's better to wait or scramble when competing for free agents. I think Holland's vision is more long term and he's not willing to pull the trigger unless it's a smart deal. In a sense I see his position. Each team can only support so many of these mega contracts. Minnesota is done. Philly might be done. A lot of the teams are saturated with huge contracts and Detroit may become a more favorable option down the line by elimination alone. The difference maker after multiple years might be which team manages their cap more effectively and ices the more complete team. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I lol at Howson. I'm so happy he isn't taking the Wings' offers if these rumours are true. I want nothing to do with overpaying for a habitual underachiever who is being paid top 10 money for the next 6 years to produce at the same freaking level as Franzen. Fuuuuccckkk that. I'd take Nash if the asking price wasn't so so inflated. Keep waiting the Jackets out.... there's a reason why the entire league is declining their absurd price. lol wut? I love when people ignore the fact that Nash gets paid almost twice what Franzen does to produce at the same level. I could give two s***s if people speculate what he'd produce like here. All you can do is evaluate him based on what's he's actually done lately. Hey if Filppula came back to Earth I'd feel real silly, no question. But what if Filppula's year wasn't a fluke? That's the problem. And the other thing is we're getting old and definitely past the prime window for winning a Cup. If the deal was to trade for Ryan 3 years ago you'd have to take it... but with Dats and Z both exiting their primes...