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Flip stunk in the shootout.

Z is below average at the shootout. That is why he is never used in the first three.

I have to say, I believe that more often than not, good things happened when Tootoo was on the ice. He had one hell of a finish to the season IMO.

Agreed, Tootoo wasn't signed to be a 4th line guy with 4th line numbers and minutes like Carcillo at 900k...hence the 1.9 million contract. There was obviously some roster plan for him that didn't pan out either due to injuries or decision by Babcock. I'd like to see him play a full season on the Wings with some decent minutes before deciding if 1.9 million was an overpayment.

So hold on here.....Quincey with all of his screw ups in the season. Reading through countless posts of people talking about how he was god awful in the game GDT's more so than anyone else is getting paid just right and you are fine with that but think that tootoo with what he brings is getting too much and needs to be traded? The way I seen Q play there is no way he played to a $3+mil contract. We are talking about the 1 goal and 2 assists 3 pts Quincey right?

I disagree. I think Lashoff had a great year last year and really helped the team early on when many players were not doing so well. However, as the season went on he really showed some gaps in his game. So I would hate to dump a solid player like Quincey when there are questions. Now certainly I am hoping that Lashoff made the most of his time down in Grand Rapids and will come back this year way stronger, but we need to be prepared if thats not the case. The defense is still pretty young overall with Kindl, Dekeyser, and Smith. We can definitely use Quinceys experience. On-topic, has the length of time Brunner has went unsigned changed anyones opinion of his value? Its one thing if the Wings choose not to give him the salary he wants and then someone else snaps him up on July 1, but when all 30 teams have had weeks to sign him and no one has, I think that does put into perspective that his value might not be that high. The longer this goes, the more I feel like we don't need him back and a young player can take his role on the team.

Lashoff as the #6 scares me

Babs: "Cleary?" Canada Committee: "NO." (resoundingly) Babs: "Sheesh."

Bert is still a good option IF healthy. Dats, Bert, Alfie I can go with.

Brunner/Tootoo/Samuelsson/Eaves/Franzen for Stamkos.

So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

My Picks: Forwards Nash - Crosby - Stamkos Giroux - Toews- Tavares Staal - Bergeron - Perry St. Louis - Richards - Carter Eberle Getlzaf Defense Doughty - Weber Keith - Letang Pietrangelo - Subban Boyle Seabrook Goalies Price Crawford Luongo Babcock said that because of all the depth down the middle, Giroux and Stall will likely be moved to the wing. I bolded the changes I made. I switched up the offense, basically kept the defense the same, and put Crawford as the backup.

Of course this will change based on who is healthy and playing well next winter. As for G's Miller will be 3rd. Quick/Howard will be the starter based on who is playing better at the time. IIRC Ryan, Backus, and Brown were on a line together and played really well.

I agree that based on how he has been utilized, it is an overpayment. I am hoping he gets more play time next year as I thought he gave us a real boost at the beginning of the season when he dropped the gloves and layed out some big hits... not sure if his fall off towards the end of the season was due to reduced minutes, direction from management on how he should play, or if he just didn't bring it. If he is given the opportunity and plays with tenacity next season, I think he will be worth the contract. I still think our team needs his grit... he is a mostly one dimensional player, but that one dimension is unique on the team as far as I’m concerned. I don't count Abby and Ericcson as enforcers. Edit: When Boston, Ottawa etc. start getting rough with our guys, I will be real happy to have a firecracker to toss at em instead of Abby, Ericcson (double meh) Double Edit: Montreal, Ottowa, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Boston were all in the top 10 for fighting majors last year... so I think Tootoo will get utilized a bit more if he stays with the team.

There is no way 1.9mil for what tootoo brings is over payment. He just needs to be used.

Oh I have to continue to poke, it's in my nature. Next time you mean trade a player, then say trade a player. Maybe more discriptively state your point instead of leaving yourself open to interpretation that way. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here that would define "let a player go" (which you mention more than once without once mentioning the word trade until your latest post) as including the option to buy out of an existing contract or not re-signing when it's up. Actually those are the much easier options of clearing up a roster spot than finding a trading partner for your prospects that aren't working out. Since your 2-1 minor leaguer trades to open roster spots happen all the time, I'm sure you could site numerous examples of them for me. When was the last time the Wings traded two young roster players off for the sole purpose freeing up a slot to sign a 19-20 year old prospect? I'm sure you could tell me. One last thing on the "20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level". If the Wings subscribed to that theory, they would have traded off Jimmy Howard at the age of 24 when plenty of people were calling him a bust after 3 years of going a combined 63-67-9 in GR with a 2.7 GAA & .911 Sv% & 1-5-0 in Detroit with a 2.76 GAA & .907 Sv%. Personally, I'm glad that the Wings show a little more patience & longer-term view with their players they decide to invest in instead of flipping them constantly for the younger, not necessarily better model. So yeah, I'm sticking with my original opinion that you decided to ridicule back on the first page of this thread: There are far better prospects in the system that deserved pro contracts over Quine.

Hey - just came across your message. I love that you love the idea. Five Hole for Food is starting to head into the US and looking to grow in some of the major hockey cities. I'd love to chat more with you or anyone interested, on how we might be able to build this in the US and start to grow things. Feel free to fire me an email to chat more! info [at] fiveholeforfood [dot] com. Cheers!

If all bonuses are deferred, then yes, the team is $1m below the cap. Andersson and Nyquist are likely to garner in the arena of $2m collectively. That'll put the team somewhere in the realm of $1m over the cap. If Holland wants Cleary, he'll then need to clear at least $4m, or preferably $5m if he wants to have any space for injury call-ups. I think Tootoo is gone, but I'd be fine having Samuelsson sit the bench should that mean we won't have Cleary for three more years.

That's what I was thinking when i mentioned LaFontaine for Buffalo/NYI. Him and Mogilny were insane together. Especially in NHL games on Sega Now they can't even get grazed by a guy without playing dead. Hang that on the wall for goalies to see.