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RusDRW

This team screams for a trade

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There were exactly 29 30+ goalscorers last year and Dan Cleary scored 26 goals in 68 games. He was also 35th in the league when it came to goals scored per game as he did that at a .38 rate.

29 30+ goal scorers is just about one per team. There just aren't that many of them around. Personally, I like having Zetterbger, Datsyuk, and Franzen that all have the ability to score 30+ when healthy and a guy like Cleary that can give you 20+ to supplement them.

If you think a top-6 forward has to score 30+ you're just flat out wrong. On top of that, Cleary is a guy who is used both in the top-6 and as a checker on the 3rd line. He is not a mainstay in the top-6. He's about as versatile player as there is in today's NHL.

if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

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Guest Crymson

if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

You again. I threw some logic at you and you ignored me yet again, choosing instead to scamper off and return to nonsensically scream again at a different time. What's your deal?

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While I don't doubt that Holland will be actively working the phones over the next month or two, even if something goes through, I just don't know if I believe that it'll be the mystical answer we all seem to seek when talking about trades and "new blood." I guess what I'm saying is that if it takes bringing in a figurehead of sorts to represent being "hungry," then, well, I guess I just think that's bulls***. And pathetic. This increasing problem revolving around "effort" and "hunger" is an organizational problem, and I don't believe that one person will truly fix that. It's really a silly idea when you think about it.

And what does it say now?

I've talked about the potential for a trade tonight, and again, I am getting to the point where I'm expecting something to happen. But don't be confused: I don't care.

Why didn't they do that years ago? Why do they keep investing in guys just because they've already invested something in them? It's a bigger waste to let their value burn out in your hands. If it's not "HELL YEAH," it should be "no." Get out while the getting's good.

Why don't actual results take precedence over potential? If they did, they would've made trades or different signings or retentions over the last few years that they didn't.

Any isolated moves they make now will just look desperate. This team has the pieces in place to be good and even great, but there's something missing. And while players and chemistry are party of the equation, this has become an organizational problem. More than any trading or rebuilding that is done, they need to start thinking differently.

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What do you think of my Hudler for Penner idea?

Nooooo....

I see a lot of Kings games and honestly having Penner would be just like having another Bertuzzi, at best. He doesn't compete hard and doesn't use his size nearly as effectively as he should.

I was such a fan of this guy when he broke into the league, but he just doesn't have the work ethic and compete level, as Babs would put it.

Hudler's no better in terms of points, but he at least works hard. He's just small and slow.

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While I don't doubt that Holland will be actively working the phones over the next month or two, even if something goes through, I just don't know if I believe that it'll be the mystical answer we all seem to seek when talking about trades and "new blood." I guess what I'm saying is that if it takes bringing in a figurehead of sorts to represent being "hungry," then, well, I guess I just think that's bulls***. And pathetic. This increasing problem revolving around "effort" and "hunger" is an organizational problem, and I don't believe that one person will truly fix that. It's really a silly idea when you think about it.

And what does it say now?

I've talked about the potential for a trade tonight, and again, I am getting to the point where I'm expecting something to happen. But don't be confused: I don't care.

Why didn't they do that years ago? Why do they keep investing in guys just because they've already invested something in them? It's a bigger waste to let their value burn out in your hands. If it's not "HELL YEAH," it should be "no." Get out while the getting's good.

Why don't actual results take precedence over potential? If they did, they would've made trades or different signings or retentions over the last few years that they didn't.

Any isolated moves they make now will just look desperate. This team has the pieces in place to be good and even great, but there's something missing. And while players and chemistry are party of the equation, this has become an organizational problem. More than any trading or rebuilding that is done, they need to start thinking differently.

This is, perhaps, the best post so far in this thread. Our loyalty to our own players goes too far and the management missed the point when changes had to be made. We have a problem now so the management needs to respond somehow. I think some trades could a be good start. Trading someone like Franzen or Filppula or Hudler may send a message to other underperforming players. In addition to that I think we need to drop some dead weight in Miller, Commodore (yes, I know we just signed him), perhaps Eaves and call up Tatar, Smith and/or Nyquist to be regulars. I see no other ways to principally change the situation. And here I mean not to just stop this slump (it will stop eventually, anyway) but to change the way how this team is built.

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On the other hand, the trade worked out really well for Vancouver:

Wild 5

Canucks 1

SOG:

Wild 45

Canucks 25

That's right. The Minnesota Wild put up 45 shots on the Canucks. That team is really lookiing like they miss Erhoff.

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This isn't NHL 12. i am all for trading for a decent forward, but some of these trade ideas are downright terrible. Franzen for Parise AND a 1st+ more? Lol really? It cost an arm and a leg to get mediocre players last season, it's going to cost a lot more than that to get someone substantial.

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IMO Franzen is the only player that would yield a good-enough return. Franzen for Parise and a first or second would be good. I love Mule, but I'm worried about his contract length. Maybe throw one of Eaves, Emmerton, etc in for Clarkson as well.

IMO no trade is needed, but if a trade is made I'd like it to be a big move.

Soooo in your NHL 12 world

Franzen = Parise and a 1st or 2nd?

And or

Franzen + Eaves/ Emmerton = Parise, Clarkson and a 1st...

Go punch that into NHL and I bet your PS3 even laughs at you. I'm sorry to come off like a Dick but being frustrated about all of this bad hockey I have been watching Plus the idea of us landing Parise or Nash for the guys we all want to get rid off isn't going to happen (sorry in picking on you, your not the only one)

In real life Franzen, Filppula and a pick/ prospect wouldn't land Parise or Nash then are bonafide stars in this league. Franzen is looking like a flash in the pan (currently), Filppula a career underachiever and a 24-30th overal pick...?

To get an elite player you have to deal good prospects and a meangiful player to a team not trying to win. A team with a win now mentality has to overpay in prospects to the win later/rebuilding team. That is usually how it works. The problem with that, teams don't know where they will be for another 20 or so games... Iginla is probably one of the few guys I would even consider for a possibility with Calgary getting worse and that would cost us Filppula/ Franzen plus picks and prospects and I'm talking a jarnkrok, Jurco, pulkkinen type not Johan Ryno...

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Soooo in your NHL 12 world

Franzen = Parise and a 1st or 2nd?

And or

Franzen + Eaves/ Emmerton = Parise, Clarkson and a 1st...

Go punch that into NHL and I bet your PS3 even laughs at you. I'm sorry to come off like a Dick but being frustrated about all of this bad hockey I have been watching Plus the idea of us landing Parise or Nash for the guys we all want to get rid off isn't going to happen (sorry in picking on you, your not the only one)

In real life Franzen, Filppula and a pick/ prospect wouldn't land Parise or Nash then are bonafide stars in this league. Franzen is looking like a flash in the pan (currently), Filppula a career underachiever and a 24-30th overal pick...?

To get an elite player you have to deal good prospects and a meangiful player to a team not trying to win. A team with a win now mentality has to overpay in prospects to the win later/rebuilding team. That is usually how it works. The problem with that, teams don't know where they will be for another 20 or so games... Iginla is probably one of the few guys I would even consider for a possibility with Calgary getting worse and that would cost us Filppula/ Franzen plus picks and prospects and I'm talking a jarnkrok, Jurco, pulkkinen type not Johan Ryno...

I meant to post Mule and a first or second for Parise, not what was typed (on my phone). I wasn't aware of my mistake, or its amazing ability to anger others.

I think you are overestimating what it takes to get Parise. He is a UFA after this season (see capgeek). Therefore, NJ receives nothing for him unless he is traded before free agency. As a result, the Devils have less bargaining power (if Parise wants to move) than in a typical scenario. I'm not saying Mule+1st is enough, but it's a good starting point. The Wings would probably need to add a decent prospect and/or another pick or two, but I don't think that 'core' for the trade is far off.

Edited by WorkingOvertime

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In January we had better see:

Filppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Hudler - Helm - Mursak

Cleary - Abdelkader - Eaves

Youth. Speed. Energy.

Filppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Hudler - Helm - Mursak

Cleary - Abdelkader - Eaves

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if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

You're just writing ridiculous nonsense. You talked about his goal production and I just showed you how inaccurate you were. My preference on where Cleary should/could play (top 6 or bottom 6) is irrelevant. I personally think he fits best on the 3rd line but the point is you starting crying and having a hissy fit about his apparent 'lack' of goal scoring so I showed you how wrong you were. Even your blinded hatred for how he is playing so far this season is irrelevant. Again, I just noted how wrong you were about his season last year.

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I certainly hope there's a trade coming, but that is pretty weak evidence. There are scouts all the time at games and usually it ends up as nothing. And White won't be traded. The article makes it seem like that because it's about him, but I think it was just bad journalism, throwing in the bit about the scouts. Holland doesn't do that, and White has been really good for the team. If we lose White our defense gets worse. The defense is acceptable right now, but it's sort of stretched thin. We can't afford to not have White.

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I sincerely hope this is unfounded speculation:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/Trade+weary+White+hopes+stay+Wing/5656212/story.html

I heard that there were scouts out last night; I think something is coming down the pipes.

That would be terrible on multiple levels. Obviously, on a personal level for White and family - and because I don't consider the Wings a team to do that sort of thing. I've been happy with White overall, though. Through the first 5 games (let's be honest, the last 6 are no measure of this team) - he was exactly what we thought he'd be.

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Yeah if he doesn't score the hat trick against us. :P We don't win Thursday night when do you push the panic button? People say like the member Crymson "oh it's only 9-10 games in" OK but there are points at stake, we are 500 hockey team as of now. We should be better than this especially after winnging 5 in a row. Now 5 in a row lost. lol. It's hard to make up points the further the season goes on. Long ways to go yes but I don't see us repeating the 09-10 season and hell that was because of injuries. lol. Not looking good, I'm really up for anything on the trade front.

You weren't far off.

If only Pumpkinhead passed the puck on that empty net goal.

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You know what? I read these forums more than I post anything on here. I see how much pride most of you have in OUR team. Yes, I love the Detroit Red Wings for life, no matter what, where I move, how retarded I get, or how bad they get one day. The problem here is why is everyone hating on peoples opinions? The Red Wings are 5-5-1 right now. The season is still young. Although I do not disagree that some trades have to be made. Some big trades have to be made (yes we do need a f**king sniper) notice when we won the cup in the mid to late 90's we had shanahan even yzerman and in 2002 we had Hull. Yes, 2008, omg everyone is going to bash me there. The team was in its juicy prime (with zetterberg being pretty much our goal scorer) and everyone was playing amazing hockey.

I really hate big time hard core fans saying bad things about the team when they are not a bad team. I also hate when everyone bashes them (fans who think something is wrong with the team) when they say we are not going to win the stanley cup and the team needs a trade. Does this mean I agree with them? Yes, it does. Does it mean I don't think the current team we have CANT win the cup, NO. Does it mean that I think its more unlikely to win the cup with the current team we have, YES.

The team we have is very elite. I agree with all of you fans that something needs to be changed on this team. No reason to think you are all incorrect. I think we need to bring in a player who shoots more than passes. Get rid of hudler, first of all. Keep fil he inst a bad 2 way player. I don't know what to say about cleary because he is on and off and injured a lot, so NO COMMENT. I wouldn't mind trading Franzen if we got a player/sniper just as good as him back. I really do agree with people when they say he plays like he is 5'9. Bertuzzi I wouldn't mind getting traded either if we get some size, youth, and energy back in a weaker top 6 foward. I think our 3rd and 4th lines could use a couple tweaks with trades or different players from the minors brought up. I personally wouldn't mind getting rid of eaves or miller and bringing more physical players that can skate with the puck better.

I will say however, I would not trade zetterberg or dats because they are the core of this team. They are two of the top elite players in the league and they will eventually get going. Maybe they just arent mentally focused yet? So does this mean I am going to get bashed, even though I am a hard core, die hard, loveable fan of the red wings for saying we need trades and our team is more unlikely to win the stanley cup? Or are some of you going to say omg he isnt a red wings fan he is from another teams forum?

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Agreed. The trouble is that this team is much better than it looks. There's just been too little change the past few years, they're probably too comfortable. They're certainly not hungry anymore. This isn't the first time in the last three years this team has suffered in the goal-scoring department, and the top forwards have stayed the same. The team just needs something to give them that extra push to become a championship caliber team. A good sniper is that move. And then maybe a grittier bottom 6er. But the sniper is absolutely essential. And if we can see this, Holland can see this. He will do what he can, but we shouldn't be too hard on him if he can't, he has to play by the other GMs rules.

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I sincerely hope this is unfounded speculation:

http://www.calgaryhe...6212/story.html

I heard that there were scouts out last night; I think something is coming down the pipes.

White won't be dealt this quick, not unless it's a deal they can't refuse. Franzen is playing soft, same old stuff. I agree something should be done soon, it seems like there's a lack of urgency like complacency has set in.

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if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

I would get rid of Franzen before Cleary and Hudler.

He has more value in a trade, he's the oldest, he's likely to retire within a few years due to injury, and he's lazy. He could be a traded for mid to late 20s top-six forward to serve as the core of the team going forward along with Flip and Huds, as Dats and Z are clearly aging and we all know they won't keep it up forever while Flip and Huds should be just entering their primes. Having a bunch of solid 18-20 year old prospects who might become top-sixers doesn't do any good for the next five years because it'll be like Flip or Hudler in 2007; maybe you'll get some decent secondary scoring on the PP, but you won't be seeing those guys as core players for years. People think Nyquist is going to step in this year or next and score 70 points; that is not happening.

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I would get rid of Franzen before Cleary and Hudler.

People think Nyquist is going to step in this year or next and score 70 points; that is not happening.[/font]

Definitely! Simply because we won't play him in NHL.

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