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#221 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

He's probably not quite as skilled as Filp, but that's not the point. Filp has mad skills, he just wasn't leading a second line and producing. Weiss has the potential to be more effective than we saw from Fil.

Weiss is going to play somewhat timid in a new system for a while , especially after being off for so long. I think that second line will start clicking after Christmas or All-Star break, when we need them to.


Well it all depends who's playing on that second line

#222 Z and D for the C

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:18 PM

As if to rub it in, Flip lobbed a harmless backhander towards the goalie tonight that somehow trickled in for his 5th goal of the year. :lol:


"Flip sucks because he never takes the puck to the net!!!!!"

*Flip scores a goal taking sending the puck to the net*

"Pft that goal should have never gone in. Flip sucks"
 

Had I attributed Weiss's poor play to his injury, then you would have a point.


That is literally exactly what you did. After quote Weiss's statements on his poor play you said that it was his first game in 7 months and that recovery takes time. You explicitly implied that he was performing poorly, at least in part due to his injury. What else is that supposed to mean?

Also, trying to use fancy, lawyer-y sounding words and phrases make you neither intelligent nor correct.

It will be impossible to judge Weiss correctly from an offensive standpoint as long as Cleary is on his line.


Don't get your hopes up, that never stopped those judgements for Filppula. But people hate Flip around here for no reason so just maybe.

Edited by Z and D for the C, 03 November 2013 - 07:19 PM.

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#223 Z and D for the C

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:26 PM

Yep, and his assist tonight was another easy pass to a wide-open defenseman at the point; the latter took a shot that was tipped in for the goal.


So why isn't Weiss getting easy points to wide-open defensemen at the point or getting goals that he doesn't deserve from harmless backhanders or goals on bad goaltenders that shouldn't have gone in?

The fact is a good play is a good play. He made a good recovery to keep the puck away from the opposition and in the zone and made a good pass to the point which resulted in a goal. People always cried about Filppula's lack of production and now that he is producing, he still gets no credit. This is like the Fox News of Filppula. Just because fox news is so far to the right doesn't make all other news liberal. Just because everyone here hates Filppula and gives him no credit doesn't make me biased because I give him the credit he deserves.

Edited by Z and D for the C, 03 November 2013 - 07:31 PM.

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#224 Crymson

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:39 PM

That is literally exactly what you did. After quote Weiss's statements on his poor play you said that it was his first game in 7 months and that recovery takes time. You explicitly implied that he was performing poorly, at least in part due to his injury. What else is that supposed to mean?

 

Following is the statement in question:

 

It's also worth nothing that the season opener was his first game in seven months. Full recovery takes time.

 

It does not take a stroke of genius to realize that when I preface such a line with "Weiss hasn't played a game in seven months," I don't mean that Weiss is still injured, but rather that returning to full game shape after seven months away takes time. Had I said something along the lines of "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover," then you might have a point. As things stand, you do not. Again.

 

Also, trying to use fancy, lawyer-y sounding words and phrases make you neither intelligent nor correct.

 

I'm neither a lawyer nor a purple proser. The words I use inhabit my vocabulary.

 

Don't get your hopes up, that never stopped those judgements for Filppula. But people hate Flip around here for no reason so just maybe.

 

Yikes! Why are you getting so angry and combative over criticism of Filppula?


So why isn't Weiss getting easy points to wide-open defensemen at the point or getting goals that he doesn't deserve from harmless backhanders or goals on bad goaltenders that shouldn't have gone in?

The fact is a good play is a good play. He made a good recovery to keep the puck away from the opposition and in the zone and made a good pass to the point which resulted in a goal. People always cried about Filppula's lack of production and now that he is producing, he still gets no credit. This is like the Fox News of Filppula. Just because fox news is so far to the right doesn't make all other news liberal. Just because everyone here hates Filppula and gives him no credit doesn't make me biased because I give him the credit he deserves.

 

Filppula is presently playing quite a bit better than Weiss is. However, he is not the point-producing machine you make him out to be---numbers don't always tell the whole story---and Weiss is not the total loss you so ardently try to make him out to be. He's a month into his five-year contract. The same is true of Filppula. Time will tell who was the better choice.


Edited by Crymson, 03 November 2013 - 07:44 PM.


#225 Z and D for the C

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:49 PM

It does not take a stroke of genius to realize that when I preface such a line with "Weiss hasn't played a game in seven months," I don't mean that Weiss is still injured, but rather that returning to full game shape after seven months away takes time. Had I said something along the lines of "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover," then you might have a point. As things stand, you do not. Again.
 
I'm neither a lawyer nor a purple proser. The words I use inhabit my vocabulary.


Recovery does not mean "get into game shape". No one has ever used it in that way. Ever. For someone with such a verbose, vociferous vocabulary, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't use the word "recover" in such an incorrect context. Saying that recovery takes time is completely, explicitly and entirely obviously implying that "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover". Apparently, though, this does take a smart person to understand. You're not understanding.

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#226 GMRwings1983

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:00 PM

Filppula regressed last season, and Weiss was a bad signing.

 

Don't see how it matters which guy is better than the other.  The Wings clearly need a legitimate second line center again next year, if Weiss continues to suck.  


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#227 RedWang

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:05 PM

If I'm wrong i'll eat all the crow you give me but I dont see Weiss being the impact 2nd line center we thought he'd be. But thats just me. Honestly hoping im wrong.

#228 Z and D for the C

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:09 PM

Don't see how it matters which guy is better than the other.


I'm still just angry about losing Lilja.

Weiss is not the total loss you so ardently try to make him out to be.


I'm not ruling out Weiss. I haven't been able to watch that many Wings games this season (school/no cable at my house), but from what I've seen he generally looks good. I don't doubt the points will come. My only argument is that he will never do better than Filppula - not because Filppula is way better, but because he will succumb to the same problems Filppula had: linemates who are either lazy or can't make plays. Filppula current production is what I've always expected out of him and he is doing it because he is actually playing with decent linemates.

Edited by Z and D for the C, 03 November 2013 - 08:10 PM.

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#229 10 Minute Misconduct

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:13 PM

 

Zetterberg's pass went through the crease and between the goalie and a defenseman with perfect accuracy. Try again.


 

No. It wasn't. He scored the first goal of that game. Zetterberg had the game-winning goal.

 

Fil actually scored the goal to put the Wings up 2-1.  Z scored to put them up 3-1 before they scored that late one.  Fil's goal was for all intense and purpose, the winner.


Fil was highly under appreciated on here.  One of the better playoff performers for us as well.  But thats not surprising, this is the same fan base and website that was rdy to give up on Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard at times, now it's Smith....

 

Whos' next?

 

EDIT: Almost forgot Rafalski


Edited by 10 Minute Misconduct, 03 November 2013 - 08:16 PM.

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#230 Crymson

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:36 PM

Recovery does not mean "get into game shape". No one has ever used it in that way. Ever. For someone with such a verbose, vociferous vocabulary, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't use the word "recover" in such an incorrect context. Saying that recovery takes time is completely, explicitly and entirely obviously implying that "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover". Apparently, though, this does take a smart person to understand. You're not understanding.

 

 

"Weiss hasn't played a game in seven months" and "Weiss needs more time to recover" do not fit together. In any case, you were incorrect; I'm telling you so as the world's premiere authority on what my statements mean.

 

That said, I'm glad I've inspired you to expand your own vocabulary!



#231 Euro_Twins

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:37 PM

 
Fil actually scored the goal to put the Wings up 2-1.  Z scored to put them up 3-1 before they scored that late one.  Fil's goal was for all intense and purpose, the winner.

Fil was highly under appreciated on here.  One of the better playoff performers for us as well.  But thats not surprising, this is the same fan base and website that was rdy to give up on Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard at times, now it's Smith....
 
Whos' next?
 
EDIT: Almost forgot Rafalski


You forgot kindl. But filppula didn't seem to want to be here, and after his breakout season he regressed. People would have been rather angry if we gave home 5 years 5 per and would have compared it to the franzen signing, and probably would have said we could have had hossa but we have filppula instead

#232 Crymson

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:40 PM

Fil actually scored the goal to put the Wings up 2-1.  Z scored to put them up 3-1 before they scored that late one.  Fil's goal was for all intense and purpose, the winner.

 

You're right, his was the second goal. As for the rest... err, no. For all intents and purposes, and in actual fact, Zetterberg's goal was the game-winner. Had he not scored, the Penguins' next goal would have tied the game.

 

Fil was highly under appreciated on here.  One of the better playoff performers for us as well.  But thats not surprising, this is the same fan base and website that was rdy to give up on Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard at times, now it's Smith....

 

 

Howard proved himself in his rookie season. Kronwall and Ericsson broke out in their third. Filppula had six seasons and failed, aside from one season, to improve or to meet expectations, and his one notable season was followed by the worst (excepting his rookie campaign) of his career. By any stretch of the term, he was given plenty of time.



#233 wings87

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:03 PM

 

You're right, his was the second goal. As for the rest... err, no. For all intents and purposes, and in actual fact, Zetterberg's goal was the game-winner. Had he not scored, the Penguins' next goal would have tied the game.

 

 

 

 

 

Howard proved himself in his rookie season. Kronwall and Ericsson broke out in their third. Filppula had six seasons and failed, aside from one season, to improve or to meet expectations, and his one notable season was followed by the worst (excepting his rookie campaign) of his career. By any stretch of the term, he was given plenty of time.

I don't think he failed, he just didn't turn into the type of player we wanted him to be. That said he still turned into a decent player, just not Datsyuk.


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#234 Dabura

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:09 PM

Again, Flip had all the time in the world. He was given every opportunity to succeed, prove himself, make good on the shining promise of his overwhelming, Gretzky-level potential. But he disappointed. And disappointed. And disappointed. And he also disappointed. And, did I mention he disappointed? And then he wanted a big raise.

 

The Wings and Filppula are just not a smashing fit. It seems he's found a better fit and home in Florida, which is good for him and for the Bolts. My guess is it's largely because of the kind of game the Bolts play, and, in that context, the kind of player Flip is expected to be. Put simply: it looks like he's been liberated a bit. He doesn't have to be as obsessively devoted to his defensive responsibilities. (Were the Wings to somehow acquire Stamkos, Babs would drill it into his head that he needs to dial back the offensive drive in favor of a more defensively responsible two-way game. On the - ahem - flip side, Datsyuk would be a 50-goal scorer on some other teams.)

 

As for Weiss - he's actually been pretty solid on this road trip. But he needs to start producing, now.


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#235 FireCaptain

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:19 PM

'Intents and purposes,' maybe?

 

Fil actually scored the goal to put the Wings up 2-1.  Z scored to put them up 3-1 before they scored that late one.  Fil's goal was for all intense and purpose, the winner.


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#236 GMRwings1983

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:28 PM

Again, Flip had all the time in the world. He was given every opportunity to succeed, prove himself, make good on the shining promise of his overwhelming, Gretzky-level potential. But he disappointed. And disappointed. And disappointed. And he also disappointed. And, did I mention he disappointed? And then he wanted a big raise.

 

The Wings and Filppula are just not a smashing fit. It seems he's found a better fit and home in Florida, which is good for him and for the Bolts. My guess is it's largely because of the kind of game the Bolts play, and, in that context, the kind of player Flip is expected to be. Put simply: it looks like he's been liberated a bit. He doesn't have to be as obsessively devoted to his defensive responsibilities. (Were the Wings to somehow acquire Stamkos, Babs would drill it into his head that he needs to dial back the offensive drive in favor of a more defensively responsible two-way game. On the - ahem - flip side, Datsyuk would be a 50-goal scorer on some other teams.)

 

As for Weiss - he's actually been pretty solid on this road trip. But he needs to start producing, now.

 

Gretzky level potential?  I don't know what you're talking about.  


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#237 Playmaker

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:39 AM

This thread has turned comical.  I'm starting to wonder if some of the posters are jilted teenagers who are jealous that Filppula has a girlfriend.

 

Gretzky like potential?  Systematically analyzing every assist?  Arguing the semantics of a gwg or recovering from injury.  Really?

 

 Flip had a lot of talent, but seemed to lack the confidence and aggressiveness necessary to take it to the next level, but to act like he was a complete and utter failure in his tenure as a Wing is beyond ridiculous.

 

Since Weiss' assist was "only"  a secondary one by winning the faceoff and then passed D to D, the official scorer should be notified that it wasn't an actual assist.



#238 Dave

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:47 AM

 

Gretzky level potential?  I don't know what you're talking about.  

 

 

This thread has turned comical.  I'm starting to wonder if some of the posters are jilted teenagers who are jealous that Filppula has a girlfriend.

 

Gretzky like potential?  Systematically analyzing every assist?  Arguing the semantics of a gwg or recovering from injury.  Really?

 

 Flip had a lot of talent, but seemed to lack the confidence and aggressiveness necessary to take it to the next level, but to act like he was a complete and utter failure in his tenure as a Wing is beyond ridiculous.

 

Since Weiss' assist was "only"  a secondary one by winning the faceoff and then passed D to D, the official scorer should be notified that it wasn't an actual assist.

 

 

hy·per·bo·le   [hahy-pur-buh-lee] 
noun Rhetoric .
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2.

an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to betaken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Edited by Dave, 05 November 2013 - 08:48 AM.


#239 Euro_Twins

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:39 AM

'Intents and purposes,' maybe?


No. That wouldn't be intense enough. :P

#240 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:22 AM

"Flip sucks because he never takes the puck to the net!!!!!"

*Flip scores a goal taking sending the puck to the net*

"Pft that goal should have never gone in. Flip sucks"

 

I'm not sure if those quotes are supposed to be things I've said, but to be clear, I liked Flip.  He played heavy on the puck (as Babcock likes to put it) and clearly had offensive talent.   For whatever reason though, he just never fully took that next step with Detroit and honestly a new start in Tampa is probably best for him.

 

But my comment about the backhander wasn't a criticism of Flip, though I could see how it would look that way in this thread.  

 

I was reading this thread and watching the NHL network when I saw the highlight of him tossing the puck towards the net on his backhand and it trickling in.  It was just funny because of the timing of it all, as if it was being rubbed in somehow.  "The puck goes in every time in tampa!"  It was two times in a row I turned on the NHL network to see a Filppula highlight. 







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