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gcom007

Trade
Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

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maybe this was the deal to help Kenny aquire Weber in a trade? well just a thought lol

i still say that we have the russian kid lined up to come over.

Great and if he doesn't get his way he is back to the KHL...yxeah a real upgrade on Jarnkrok..

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This is still different Jarnkrok wa the only prospect with top 6 center potential, nobody said something like that about Mathias.

Yes they did.

Matthias, meanwhile, was ranked the 12th-best prospect in the world by The Hockey News in the magazine’s Future Watch publication in March.

http://www.redwingscentral.com/2008/05/26/175/will-2006-draft-class-deliver/

I remember people losing their minds over that trade, just like they're losing their minds over Jarnkrok. Just because he was their best center prospect, that doesn't mean he was truly a legit top line center, and the odds are a lot higher that he's going to be a 40 point a year guy than a guy who's going to come in and come close to a point a game.

Let me reiterate that the Wings have employees whose main job is to evaluate their own prospects. I don't care how many good things they've said about the kid in the press, they say good things about every prospect. The fact that they were willing to trade him for Legwand tells me that they weren't nearly as high on him as a lot of the fans are. If they were, they could have moved anyone of a number of other kids instead of him.

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Yes they did.

I remember people losing their minds over that trade, just like they're losing their minds over Jarnkrok. Just because he was their best center prospect, that doesn't mean he was truly a legit top line center, and the odds are a lot higher that he's going to be a 40 point a year guy than a guy who's going to come in and come close to a point a game.

Let me reiterate that the Wings have employees whose main job is to evaluate their own prospects. I don't care how many good things they've said about the kid in the press, they say good things about every prospect. The fact that they were willing to trade him for Legwand tells me that they weren't nearly as high on him as a lot of the fans are. If they were, they could have moved anyone of a number of other kids instead of him.

I get what you are trying to say I really do but you know desperate times are calling for desperate actions and once desperation is getting the best out of you...rational thinking takes a backseat. Holland himself said their goal was trying to get defensive help or do nothing but then further injuries happened and Wings had to change their plans.

It is what is now but I will say this, I PRAY Jarnkrok becomes a star so a mistake like that won't happen twice.

nyqvististhefuture likes this

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I get what you are trying to say I really do but you know desperate times are calling for desperate actions and once desperation is getting the best out of you...rational thinking takes a backseat. Holland himself said their goal was trying to get defensive help or do nothing but then further injuries happened and Wings had to change their plans.

It is what is now but I will say this, I PRAY Jarnkrok becomes a star so a mistake like that won't happen twice.

The problem with your argument is that you're starting with it's a mistake, because "GOOD PROSPECT." If he doesn't develop into a top line player, it's not a mistake, it was selling a guy the team cooled on while his value was at its peak.

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[quote name="frankgrimes"

My second beef is the way this team is build: there are too many europeans and not enough hardworking NA guys andd I truly believe having more good ol michigan kids would help getting the fanbase excited and more "into it" /quote]

Michigan boys like Legwand?

Son of a Wing likes this

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I get what you are trying to say I really do but you know desperate times are calling for desperate actions and once desperation is getting the best out of you...rational thinking takes a backseat. Holland himself said their goal was trying to get defensive help or do nothing but then further injuries happened and Wings had to change their plans.

It is what is now but I will say this, I PRAY Jarnkrok becomes a star so a mistake like that won't happen twice.

Yeah, it was a desperate situation. Fighting for a playoff spot, Weiss having a setback, losing Datsyuk and Helm (and uncertain if any of the three would be back healthy this year), plus Zetterberg already out for the year, plus Franzen just coming back, and it was our last chance to add anything.

And you are suggesting that the "logical" thought in that situation is play yet another kid with no NHL experience (and not exactly lighting up the AHL) rather than a proven performer who had 40 points already this year.

The desperation likely contributed to the overpayment. Good job by Poile to recognize he had us in a bad spot and take advantage. However, given how well Sheahan has done, as well as Glendening looking like a quality 4th-liner, and all the other good looking prospects we have, I'd say we could afford it. Jarnkrok had one more year of waiver exemption. We have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson, and Glendening as center options for 3+ years. Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Pulkkinen, and maybe Mantha in the same time frame as Jarnkrok. Then add several 4th line/reserve options. There wasn't much of an opportunity here for him. Even had we kept him it would have cost someone else an opportunity.

Regardless of whether Jarnkrok becomes a top line player, or even a bona fide star, making the trade was a solid decision. And good decisions are as important as results. You shouldn't judge everything based on hindsight and speculation. We'll never know if we could have done the trade without including Jarnkrok so there's no point in speculating. What we do know is we had an immediate need and more "future potential" than we have spots for. You trade from strength to address a weakness, and that's exactly what we did. How it works out is also important, of course, but just not the only important factor.

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Michigan boys like Legwand?

Well yeah but in their prime or prospects :-)

You trade from strength to address a weakness, and that's exactly what we did. How it works out is also important, of course, but just not the only important factor.

Thats why I've wanted defense :-)

Mckinley25 likes this

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Well yeah but in their prime or prospects :-)

You trade from strength to address a weakness, and that's exactly what we did. How it works out is also important, of course, but just not the only important factor.

Thats why I've wanted defense :-)

Yeah, I think he'll look better when we (if we ever do) have a full roster. I'm ok with the trade, as hard as it is to lose a good prospect.

And for the record I hope Jarnkrok is a super star, that'll give me that much more confidence in our drafting.

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You don't get good players for Ferraro, Callahan, Miller, and a 3rd, which is all a lot of the people screaming to make a trade want to give up. Legwand has been the Pred's best forward pretty much his entire career, and is at worst a second line center. Jarnkrok is a 22 year old prospect who the guys who constantly evaluate their prospects and monitor them far more closely and accurately than anyone outside of the organization, much less a random fan posting on a message board, were comfortable trading for Legwand. This reminds me of the rants we heard every time Matthias or any other prospect the Wings gave up had a good game, until a couple years passed and people realized oh, he's not as good as we thought he'd be.

You make it sound like legwand is a star ... Let's be honest over here ... Will he have a long nhl career ? Yes ... But for a first overall nhl pick he's a bust ... A bust in the sense that when you get a first overall nhl pick your expecting and hoping that player is a franchise player that will carry the team and be super dominant and he hasn't

Him being nashvilles best player of all time isn't saying much , that team has been good for many years in the back end but never had any good scoring threats upfront .... Again legwand is good but like I said before he's a perfect third line center in a very good team .... Low and behold he's on the 3rd line now and what's worse is our big guns haven't even returned yet

This is the whole stephen weiss crap again .... A lot of People gave me s*** here for saying Weiss was overrated from day 1 and yes it's still soon but so far we can say it's been a disaster

You can say whatever you want about jarnkrok being a future bottom 6 .... facts are we gave up on top 3 prospect for a soon to be 34 yr old ufa which is absolute nonsense ... I would of rather called him up and see what would of happened , I'm pretty sure he'd have more games with pts than legwand has so far seeing how he's done with nobody's in Nashville and seeing how he had experience playing with nyquist sheahan jurco dekeyser etc ...

He's gone now so all we can do is accept the trade and or vent about it .... I'm pissed but I accept that it's done ... I just want jarnkrok to continue and dominate so we think hard next time about giving up a top prospect in our system

We all have our own opinions and that's mine and it won't change

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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He's gone now so all we can do is accept the trade and or vent about it .... I'm pissed but I accept that it's done ... I just want jarnkrok to continue and dominate so we think hard next time about giving up a top prospect in our system

We all have our own opinions and that's mine and it won't change

You keep saying this, but when was the last time the wings gave up a top prospect? Shawn Mattias for Bertuzzi? That was 7 years ago and the wings now keep picks and prospects. I honestly don't know how I feel about the trade - possible present gain for possible future sacrifice. But to claim that the Wings need to be taught a lesson about giving up prospects seems incongruous with management's recent history.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk
number9 and Internet.Unknown like this

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You keep saying this, but when was the last time the wings gave up a top prospect? Shawn Mattias for Bertuzzi? That was 7 years ago and the wings now keep picks and prospects. I honestly don't know how I feel about the trade - possible present gain for possible future sacrifice. But to claim that the Wings need to be taught a lesson about giving up prospects seems incongruous with management's recent history.

I don't recall Matthias ever being a top 5 prospect ... Could be wrong ... If he was then that was the last time we traded a top 5 pick ... And just because Matthias Thus far isn't anything special doesn't mean sooner or later we will pull a Oates trade again and this could be it

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I don't recall Matthias ever being a top 5 prospect ... Could be wrong ... If he was then that was the last time we traded a top 5 pick ... And just because Matthias Thus far isn't anything special doesn't mean sooner or later we will pull a Oates trade again and this could be it

Every team ends up making trades like that occasionally.

NYC Wings Fanatic likes this

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Every team ends up making trades like that occasionally.

Yes but they don't usually trade a top prospect for a soon to be 34 yr old ufa .... At least if it was a 1st jarnkrok another guy or 2 for a solid top d then it be a different story and wouldn't bother me so much

Edited by nyqvististhefuture
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What you think of the trade is partly dependent on how important you think the playoff streak is. And whether you think this team can do anything in the playoffs.

I'm convinced that this trade wouldn't have happened under any cirmcustances other than the ones we faced. When you are fighting for your life and Andersson is your no 1 centre, the desire to make deals increases. Did we overpay? Of course. What remains to be seen is whether or not is was worth the overpayment. If we make the playoffs and somehow get past the first round, and he re-signs for a fair price (which looks likely), its a pretty good deal. If we finish 9th and he leaves, we got stung.

I think also Sheahan's emergence and the development of AA in the juniors made it an easier trade to make, particularly on a team with a pro-veteran focus and a s*** load of rookies cementing their places for next year. I guess the thinking is also that this can allow us to really roll 4 lines next year, regardless of whether Weiss comes back (perhaps they know something we dont there).

Zatta - Dats - ? (alfie/UFA)

Nyquist - Legwand - Franzen

Tats - Sheahan - Jurco

Abby - Helm - Miller

Andersson/Glendenning looks pretty good...and if wiess proves himself, even better.

Losing Bert, Cleary, Sammy frees up 6-7m in salary, which can help us look for a UFA as the Cap increase should cover re-signing Legwand, alfie, Quincey (maybe?), Dekeyser Sheahan and Tatar.

Its frustrating to lose a genuine NHL prospect, but I suppose Nashville wanted a centre and the wings must very confident Legwand won't be a rental, which pretty much guarantees no room for Iron Hook in Detroit bar as a call up for 2 years unless his points total continued to accelerate. I'll be astounded if we don't draft a couple of centres this year, and try to pinch that Russian kid.

That said, I'm pretty sure if it wasn;t for the injury bug combining so effectively with being on the outside of the playoff picture looking in, we'd have kept him and given him a late season look. Essentially Holland blinked, and time will tell if he was right or not.

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We'll just to who I'm fair and not only mentioning when he gets pts ... Jarnkrok was pointless tonight ... Oh well couldn't keep it going forever

A point in each of his first 5 nhl games is still a good start ... Let's see what he does next few games

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We'll just to who I'm fair and not only mentioning when he gets pts ... Jarnkrok was pointless tonight ... Oh well couldn't keep it going forever

A point in each of his first 5 nhl games is still a good start ... Let's see what he does next few games

Not only was he pointless, he took a penalty that lead to Washington tying the game.

Tonights Jarnkrok looked like he didn't really belong in the NHL.

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Not only was he pointless, he took a penalty that lead to Washington tying the game.

Tonights Jarnkrok looked like he didn't really belong in the NHL.

Was one game though ... To be fair Legwands had more than one bad game since being a redwing(he's also played more games I realize)

Nice picture you got there lol mixture of datsyuk and Babcock? Hahaa

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I hope Jarnkrok becomes a nobody for the simple fact that I don't want to read about this trade for the next 18 years of his career.

Really though. At this rate will people be bumping this thread every time he gets a point 2 or 3 years from now? lol

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Jarnkrok couldn't score on the shootout last night. Good riddance I say!

Also, no-one said Matthias was a top 5 pick, but he was in our top 5 prospects.... oh, you know, back when he was a Wings prospect and everyone got all bent outta shape when he was traded away.

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can we put this debate to bed? We needed a center, Jarnkrok wasn't going to be recalled to be that center. The Wings brass know who they have in the system and who they can live without. The need was for a top line D man, but everyone wanted Mantha. Holland said, no to every offer out there. Holland needed a center with NHL experience and one that could help us get into the playoffs. Jarnkrok was needed to get an experienced center with some skill. Legwand has 11 points in 14 games, that's 64 points over an 82 game period. Everyone plays a bad game here and there, or makes bad plays, its not like he floats around most of season like someone else we know. Besides, Jarnkrok wasn't going to be here until two more season anyhow, and I have a hard time seeing him get 60+ points here in Detroit. Legwand was a great pickup and he along with the kids are the reason we are still in the playoffs today. Jarnkrok would still be in GR. Hey, we could have always sold the entire farm including Mantha for Kesler...or we could have just relied on Emmerton and Ferraro to help us to the playoffs. I say good for Holland on this one. I am always critical of Holland, but I do give he credit when its due.

Legwand was pricey (because we were desperate) but he is paying dividends. He will re-sign a 3 year deal and continue to be that bridge while our other kids gain more experience.

NYC Wings Fanatic likes this

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