Internet.Unknown 422 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 I respect your opinion like everyones else but the point for me is: This season is toast, Pasha and Z are hurt IF they return for the playoffs (if we make them) both are going to have some catchup to do during the hardest part of the season. We are not going to win anything this year so I would be fine with missing the playoffs and get a better draft pick in an already - according to some TSN experts - weak one. Quick! Someone call Mr. I. We've found the Red Wings next GM. Let Illitch know that frankgrimes is willing to throw away a 22-year playoff streak to move up 5-7 places in the draft. #winning I thought he was at least 185 but everyone here was complaining since the trade that he was too thin and never put on the weight like detroit wanted .... making it sound like he was super thin which is bs And I follow all the prospects games all the time probably more than you , I followed the a.i.k game today to see if janmark did anything and I got flash score app and check Grand Rapids every game and Barrie and Val D'or .... So don't make assumptions Yes and since it came down to the wire at the very last minute literally he panicked and threw in jarnkrok Pure speculation. You have no way of knowing that. Keep posting baseless accusations and emotional tantrums, though. Good stuff! By the way, you're still here 24 hours after you said you were off to find a new team. Just a friendly reminder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 Quick! Someone call Mr. I. We've found the Red Wings next GM. Let Illitch know that frankgrimes is willing to throw away a 22-year playoff streak to move up 5-7 places in the draft. #winning Pure speculation. You have no way of knowing that. Keep posting baseless accusations and emotional tantrums, though. Good stuff! By the way, you're still here 24 hours after you said you were off to find a new team. Just a friendly reminder. My favorite one is that the Holland apologist act as though this pick magically keeps the playoff streak alive. If they don't make the playoffs is this still a good move in your opinion? 1 nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Internet.Unknown 422 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 My favorite one is that the Holland apologist act as though this pick magically keeps the playoff streak alive. If they don't make the playoffs is this still a good move in your opinion? Again, you're making assumptions about me that aren't true. No wonder you can't win a debate. For years I've stated that Holland is overrated. I think Bowman (and others) had much more to do with building the championship teams than Holland ever had. I've simply been pointing out your (and nyquistcantusethespacebar's) absurd whining about the Legwand deal and the importance of the playoff streak to the Wings' organization. 1. The Wings have a better shot at keeping the streak alive with Legwand than without. It's still far from guaranteed. 2. Jarnkrok may turn into a bust. The future isn't written. 3. Moving up/down 5-7 places in the draft isn't going the break the franchise. Get a grip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 Quick! Someone call Mr. I. We've found the Red Wings next GM. Let Illitch know that frankgrimes is willing to throw away a 22-year playoff streak to move up 5-7 places in the draft. #winning Pure speculation. You have no way of knowing that. Keep posting baseless accusations and emotional tantrums, though. Good stuff! By the way, you're still here 24 hours after you said you were off to find a new team. Just a friendly reminder. Yes your right I'm wrong ... Facts are the deal went Down at 2:59 whys it so hard to believe holland threw in jarnkrok cause there was no time left and he wanted legwand? Think whatever you wanna think And I been a fan for over 25 years as idiotic as ken holland was yesterday (and I been supporting holland forever just dont understand this move) I won't ever change team as frustrated as I am so you can kindly take your friendly reminder and do you know what with it Again, you're making assumptions about me that aren't true. No wonder you can't win a debate. For years I've stated that Holland is overrated. I think Bowman (and others) had much more to do with building the championship teams than Holland ever had. I've simply been pointing out your (and nyquistcantusethespacebar's) absurd whining about the Legwand deal and the importance of the playoff streak to the Wings' organization. 1. The Wings have a better shot at keeping the streak alive with Legwand than without. It's still far from guaranteed. 2. Jarnkrok may turn into a bust. The future isn't written. 3. Moving up/down 5-7 places in the draft isn't going the break the franchise. Get a grip. Adding legwand isn't gonna make or break our chances of getting into the playoffs so it's not worth giving up a blue chip prospect Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 Again, you're making assumptions about me that aren't true. No wonder you can't win a debate. For years I've stated that Holland is overrated. I think Bowman (and others) had much more to do with building the championship teams than Holland ever had. I've simply been pointing out your (and nyquistcantusethespacebar's) absurd whining about the Legwand deal and the importance of the playoff streak to the Wings' organization. 1. The Wings have a better shot at keeping the streak alive with Legwand than without. It's still far from guaranteed. 2. Jarnkrok may turn into a bust. The future isn't written. 3. Moving up/down 5-7 places in the draft isn't going the break the franchise. Get a grip. I'll just point out this isn't a debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 I'll just point out this isn't a debate. Debate: : a discussion between people in which they express different opinions about something Merriam Webster 2 DatsyukianDekes and Internet.Unknown reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Quick! Someone call Mr. I. We've found the Red Wings next GM. Let Illitch know that frankgrimes is willing to throw away a 22-year playoff streak to move up 5-7 places in the draft. #winning Pure speculation. You have no way of knowing that. Keep posting baseless accusations and emotional tantrums, though. Good stuff! By the way, you're still here 24 hours after you said you were off to find a new team. Just a friendly reminder. Quick! I'm so funny I need to use pseudo hashtags and have no other arguments. I'm sure Holland could need some positive apoligist letters today might as well copy it 1.000 times and thank him as often ... If you can't get your point accross without using personal insults might as well say nothing, seriously. btw. longterm future > streak Edited March 6, 2014 by frankgrimes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 Debate: : a discussion between people in which they express different opinions about something Merriam Webster a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated byopposing speakers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 I respect your opinion like everyones else but the point for me is: This season is toast, Pasha and Z are hurt IF they return for the playoffs (if we make them) both are going to have some catchup to do during the hardest part of the season. We are not going to win anything this year so I would be fine with missing the playoffs and get a better draft pick in an already - according to some TSN experts - weak one. Last season Holland said, every team wants the next Lucic and more size, grit and toughness but such guys need to be developed, well Burke, Mac Tavish are just trading for them. Grit, Toughness and size is the easiest part to fix and yet Kenny has failed in doing so since the days of Dmac and Downey - unexcusable. He likes our youth? Now he does before the season the guy was quoted saying "the kids aren't the answer" if not for the injuries Nyquist would still be playing in the AHL and Tatar would have pulled a Kovalchuck. I'm extremely worried about the upcoming draft and UFA period now. I can see it Mantha for Jagr and a second rounder. Sure a guy like Ehrhoff would have had a higher pricetag but fixed our weakest spot = puck moving defenceman who isn't atrocious in his own end. Holland did some great things for this franchise, as did Bowmann but I think it's time for him to move up for a guy with almost endless resources given by the best owner he should have done a better job, period. As for Kesler I'm glad we didn't trade for him the price would have been to high and the guy is for sure looking for a big raise think about 7 x 7 after his contract is done. I too respect the fact we differ on such things but you can never ever count out any team once they get in - see LA 2012. And with the way we played in the playoffs last year I wouldn't count anything out. Yes it'll be tough without Z, but no one ever said we couldn't make it. Right now we are right on the bubble with games in hand, so let's not forget that. And if we play stifling defence ala in Montreal, then why can't we get in, get everyone healthy, (mostly) and make a charge? We'll be deep as hell down the middle, and talented underdogs. I don't feel the need to throw in the towel just for the sake of a better draft pick. We all know that good picks are mandated mainly by the scouting staff and not just the position of the pick. Obviously top 10 gets you something better than late 1st, but really we all know the draft is a crapshoot. IMO if there's a chance to make the playoffs you have to go for it, which is exactly what KH did yesterday by getting Legwand Back to your point about Burke, what exactly did his tirade of 'truculence', 'belligerence', and general war chanting get him and for the Leafs? A new job in Calgary and a lack of success. Granted the Leafs are now better than they have been for a while, but are they really going anywhere? And just exactly how easy is it to trade for legitimate guys with grit who also have the ability to pop in a goal or two? These guys are pretty rare commodities, and as such are valued accordingly. hence why the price for Kesler was/is so high. I'd be interested to see what happens to him in the summer though, especially if the Canucks don't make it. If KH did say the kids weren't the answer, then that's fair enough. But he should be given credit for going with these guys mid season when it was clearly obvious that we needed it due to injuries and guys like Cleary and Bert weren't getting it done anymore. It's one thing to make mistakes, but another to learn from them. The kid line has arguably been our best the last couple of months While I will criticise KH for the moves I don't feel were justified (see resigning Cleary, the Weiss deal, trading for Q), I still have faith and yesterday showed us that KH still wants to win just as much as anyone. As a fan, you cannot fault that, because that is the entire reason we have a 22 year streak in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 Wow just heard the holland interview so much bs In there man says he was projected to be bottom 6 guy? Lol since when? .... Says there was no room for him to be here with sheahans emergence jurco etc ... (If it weren't for the injuries we'd still be unsure about both of them, could of given janrkrok a stint) Names all these guys an excuse yet he then says we're gonna explore the ufa market lmao kept going on after about how how were trying to get into the playoffs and kept stuttering ... Does it does it does does it smack of panic like you said ? I don't think so ..... Lol stutter much? Didnt like what he had to say .... It's 14 minutes if anyone wants to listen to it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted March 6, 2014 I too respect the fact we differ on such things but you can never ever count out any team once they get in - see LA 2012. And with the way we played in the playoffs last year I wouldn't count anything out. Yes it'll be tough without Z, but no one ever said we couldn't make it. Right now we are right on the bubble with games in hand, so let's not forget that. And if we play stifling defence ala in Montreal, then why can't we get in, get everyone healthy, (mostly) and make a charge? We'll be deep as hell down the middle, and talented underdogs. I don't feel the need to throw in the towel just for the sake of a better draft pick. We all know that good picks are mandated mainly by the scouting staff and not just the position of the pick. Obviously top 10 gets you something better than late 1st, but really we all know the draft is a crapshoot. IMO if there's a chance to make the playoffs you have to go for it, which is exactly what KH did yesterday by getting Legwand Back to your point about Burke, what exactly did his tirade of 'truculence', 'belligerence', and general war chanting get him and for the Leafs? A new job in Calgary and a lack of success. Granted the Leafs are now better than they have been for a while, but are they really going anywhere? And just exactly how easy is it to trade for legitimate guys with grit who also have the ability to pop in a goal or two? These guys are pretty rare commodities, and as such are valued accordingly. hence why the price for Kesler was/is so high. I'd be interested to see what happens to him in the summer though, especially if the Canucks don't make it. If KH did say the kids weren't the answer, then that's fair enough. But he should be given credit for going with these guys mid season when it was clearly obvious that we needed it due to injuries and guys like Cleary and Bert weren't getting it done anymore. It's one thing to make mistakes, but another to learn from them. The kid line has arguably been our best the last couple of months While I will criticise KH for the moves I don't feel were justified (see resigning Cleary, the Weiss deal, trading for Q), I still have faith and yesterday showed us that KH still wants to win just as much as anyone. As a fan, you cannot fault that, because that is the entire reason we have a 22 year streak in the first place. The thing with LA 12 is this: Before the start of the regular season many people had them as one if not the cup favorite, LA simply underachieved in the regular season then added Carter and got hot at the right time. Their situation is different in so many ways: - goaltending: elite - defense: WOW - middle: size, grit and goalscoring touch LA is perfectly built for the playoffs. Throwing in the towel doesn't mean to cheer for losing (at least for me) it just means accepting reality and thinking about the longterm future. Good thing you've brought up the Maple Leafs remember their JF he traded away youth for shortterm fixes and what happened? They've foudn themselves outside of the playoffs for almost a decade. Burke got fired there for a lot of understandable reasons, he is more concerned about his image in the press than the team, players he is representing. I'm not a fan of him (think he is arrogant and a showman) but I give credit where its due. We may also differ in our expectations of what a fourth line should be/provide. Personally I would want them to be knuckleheads, big mammoths (Macintyre, McGrattan, Scottlike..) and as tough as they come preferable 3 enforcers in order to keep the Cookes, Cowens!!!! and Neils of this league in check and honest. The benefits are a very cheap serious 4 line other teams will fear AND more importantly more money for your more important top 9. So in this case yes, I do agree with Burkie. Mark my words the Kesler situation will turn out to become Luongo #2, Gillis (again) tried to played GMs against each other and lost. Now he has to use his old "we didn't get serious offers" BS in order to save face. Yesterday would have been the day to trade Kesler his value will never be as high Gillis simply blew it. I would give Holland credit, if Nyquist would have started the season with the Wings the youth and Dekeyser (who thanks god wanted to be a Red Wing) saved his ass last season. Saying the kids are NOW the answer is nice but why trade away our best center prospect? This just doesn't make sense to me. At least to me the streak is not more important than the longterm future and if the youth is used as assets package them and fix the damn defense. Trust me when I say this, I want this franchise to be a cup contender every single year but I also know the reality and the reality is this team is getting up their in age quickly with that more and more injuries will happen. This is also the reason, why I think better (lower) draft picks are so important at some point we need to replace two superstar centers 1 Shaman reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave 324 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I would give Holland credit, if Nyquist would have started the season with the Wings the youth and Dekeyser (who thanks god wanted to be a Red Wing) saved his ass last season. Saying the kids are NOW the answer is nice but why trade away our best center prospect? This just doesn't make sense to me. At least to me the streak is not more important than the longterm future and if the youth is used as assets package them and fix the damn defense. Because management obviously didn't feel he was that great of a prospect. Disagree with their assessment all you will, but they usually know what they're doing. Dats and Z made the NHL roster at 22 and produced. Jarnkrok is all ready 22 and has yet to see an NHL game. Just because he's our supposed best center prospect doesn't make him an elite prospect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 1 e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogeygolfer 4 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 name the prospect that holland traded that turned into anything special Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Leino. Board was devastated when they let him go Edited March 7, 2014 by joesuffP 2 DatsyukianDekes and Opie reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ally 448 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I'm so confused at how all the armchair GMs would have gone about repeatedly getting something for nothing. 2 Son of a Wing and BottleOfSmoke reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PredsFanTheBayouState 263 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Please don't make me start crying again,i'm still in shock that legwand is no longer a pred Edited March 7, 2014 by PredsFanTheBayouState 2 DatsyukianDekes and canadian wings fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 name the prospect that holland traded that turned into anything special Fleischmann is the best. Mathias and Quincey are the only other 2 I can think of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 If we're counting picks then you can add Mike Green to that list….. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogeygolfer 4 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 If we're counting picks then you can add Mike Green to that list….. no, we arent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canadian wings fan 305 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I'm stoked we're getting Leggy, now lets see what he can do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogeygolfer 4 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 Fleischmann is the best. Mathias and Quincey are the only other 2 I can think of. I rest my case. Fleishcmaann and mathias arent special and quicey was waived. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,477 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I rest my case. Fleishcmaann and mathias arent special and quicey was waived. Everyone hates Quincey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 Well just got back from a business trip. Heard about this, but didn't have access to it. VERY, stupid trade. Why O Why do we never "overpay" for top end players but ALWAYS overpay for depth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hey man nice shot! 144 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 Well just got back from a business trip. Heard about this, but didn't have access to it. VERY, stupid trade. Why O Why do we never "overpay" for top end players but ALWAYS overpay for depth? because it makes it a hockey trade lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites