Alextricity 5 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right? And if it's only the playoffs that matter, why did the Tigers ever get rid of Jhonny Peralta or Delmon Young? They weren't great during the season, but always showed up in the playoffs. People need to make up their minds. Now, flame me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 Franzen has 11 playoff points the last 3 years. Scored 1 goal the last 3 months of the year until our eventual elimination. Those 5 goals in 7 games is a streak he should have gone on 4-5 times in a year not once. Gus has 23 goals in 28 games. Now that's a real streak that got us into the playoffs, not Franzen's 5 goals in February 14 Red Winged, wings7, Hockeymom1960 and 11 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Toledo 233 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) He hasn't really done anything in the last 2-3 months and looks lazy and unable to create offense in the playoffs this year. No, he's not being paid to put up numbers like Stamkos or anything but he is clearly past his prime and should not have a roster spot just because of his perfomance from 6 years ago. Edited April 25, 2014 by Wings_Toledo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The ultimate goal in Detroit is to win the Stanley Cup, not to make the playoffs. It's nice that the streak was kept alive, and Franzen's performance for two months out of the season helped secure that streak, for sure, but he doesn't get a pass for being lazy for half the season + playoffs because he was carrying the team for a few weeks. The bottom line is Franzen is an NHL player, and he's getting paid an NHL player's salary. It's expected that he gives it his all every night, whether he puts up points or not. I'm not seeing that, and considering the Wings need his effort right now more than any other point this season, it's disappointing that he's not elevating his game to where he's capable of playing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 Also it's not hard to see why he's not scoring. Look at tape of all his goals they're all around the crease. Franzen's too scared to go to the front of the net against the Bruins. I'm seeing a guy who wants to win and compete hard but is not willing to pay the price. He needs an early goal in order for him to be engaged and do what got him his contract in the first place Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roboturner 562 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 You guys may want to refer to the graph/article I posted in the http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/76242-a-plea-to-holland/page-5 Thread (and the ongoing conversation). It's only going to get worse from here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Greek 323 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 You don't deserve to be flamed for having an opinion. However, acting as if franzen is above reproach does nothing to help your argument. He definitely had a good streak, but has been invisible since. This will be the wings' last opportunity to buy him out. It is a decision that does deserve to be weighed objectively. He definitely provides good value for the numbers he produces. However, you cannot deny that a lot of his numbers are inflated by scoring in bunches and/or during garbage time. I'm not saying that's how he gets all of his points, but it definitely affects his statistics. Also, the guy's playoff production (his justification for being here for some) have dropped off the cliff. He had 59 points in 51 playoff games 08-10. Since then, he has 11 points in 31 playoff games, and has been a minus player in every playoff since 2010. I don't know what baseball has to do with anything, but those are not good numbers for hockey. Franzen has shown a very sharp decline. When you couple these facts with the length of his contract, you have to at least considers buyout. 4 roboturner, Nev, AtomicPunk and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 It's not 2008 or even 2010 any more. Mule has been a middling player for a while now, not great, not total garbage, the frustrating thing is knowing what he is capable of and not getting it consistently from him. Frankly, I'm done with him. 2 Jericho613 and roboturner reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alextricity 5 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Seems like the majority of the people here enjoy conclusion jumping. I don't like Franzen either. He should be bought out after this season. I'd've said that about Weiss, but I'd sooner have Weiss over Franzen. Johan is a waste of salary and space. I'm just wondering what's with the inconsistencies in opinions I see. "He sucks during the season! He's only good during the playoffs!" "He sucks during the playoffs! He's only good during the season!" I agree that all that really matters is the Cup, but a lot of people don't realize how stupid they sound. So yes, I agree that Franzen should be off the team, but he's a good reason why the team got to the playoffs in the first place. Edited April 25, 2014 by Alextricity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) With a little work / GM skills, you could find a forward to put up 41 points a season AND give an effort every night. For considerably less what he is making on his long term deal. He is getting treated like a superstar without the superstar play. Edited April 25, 2014 by AtomicPunk 2 dirtydangles and whitewolf406 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSM 114 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 I don't hate him. I've learned to accept him for what he is. A streaky inconsistent forward who could stand to use his size more, but still produces at a 20+ goal a season rate when healthy and on the right streak. He isn't the only player in the NHL like that, and won't be the last. What I find funny is that some of the same people on here that "hate" him were also gung-ho for Kenny signing Clarkson or trading for Drew Stafford, who both have the same inconsistent label... I still however think that he's a bargain for what his cap hit is and his production would be tough to replace for the same price. If they did use a compliance buyout on him this summer, he'll probably immediately be close to the top of a lot of teams UFA wish list. I just don't see who they could get to replace him without giving up valuable assets in a trade or overpaying for a UFA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker Report post Posted April 25, 2014 You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right? And if it's only the playoffs that matter, why did the Tigers ever get rid of Jhonny Peralta or Delmon Young? They weren't great during the season, but always showed up in the playoffs. People need to make up their minds. Now, flame me. But if he had made contributions earlier in the season and was more consistent, they would not have needed a late season surge to get into the playoffs. His "beast mode" stretches were shorter and his ghost mode stretches were more the norm this season. FWIW, the Tigers got rid of Peralta because he was a UFA who was demanding a long term high salary deal on a team that had to pay other players (Verlander, Miggy, Scherzer) Then of course there was the PED suspension. Peralta had several solid regular seasons and wasn't a playoff only type of player. They parted with Delmon Young because he entirely one dimensional with an embarrassingly low OBP, was slower than snot and was pathetic defensively. Then add in the off the field issues. To me, the benefits of buying out Franzen far outweigh the advantages of keeping him. As was mentioned, this will be the only time the Wings can escape the albatross of a contract he has. I shudder to think of how he will be 5 years from now. Add to that he seems to have physical and mental issues going on. I'm willing to take the risk of losing him to another team and him somehow being able to find his magic touch on a consistent basis. I'd be curious to see if he'd even stay in the NHL. He strikes me as being content to take the cash and return to Sweden where there's less of a spotlight, a shorter season and less physical play. 1 sjr2012 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 I'd trade him for Dwight Kings rights. Someone will give something for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Greek 323 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 Seems like the majority of the people here enjoy conclusion jumping. I don't like Franzen either. He should be bought out after this season. I'd've said that about Weiss, but I'd sooner have Weiss over Franzen. Johan is a waste of salary and space. I'm just wondering what's with the inconsistencies in opinions I see. "He sucks during the season! He's only good during the playoffs!" "He sucks during the playoffs! He's only good during the season!" I agree that all that really matters is the Cup, but a lot of people don't realize how stupid they sound. So yes, I agree that Franzen should be off the team, but he's a good reason why the team got to the playoffs in the first place. What? 3 T.Low, unsaddleddonald and hak reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either He doesn't play like 6'3, 225, he plays much smaller. Add that to all the other frustrating aspects of his game. Darren Helm is a little guy, but he's out there busting his ass every single shift. 2 Hockeymom1960 and Shinzaki reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 And you didn't use one of the countless existing Franzen threads because? i.e http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/73188-franzen-trade-bait-possibly/?hl=franzen 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaZel 19 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right? And if it's only the playoffs that matter, why did the Tigers ever get rid of Jhonny Peralta or Delmon Young? They weren't great during the season, but always showed up in the playoffs. People need to make up their minds. Now, flame me. I'm a little confused by his "ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season". Franzen had 1 goal and 7 points in the last 18 games of the regular season Are you confusing Franzen with Nyquist? Granted, Franzen had 12 points in the 6 games prior to that slump. Which of course makes his stat-line look better when looking at the last 24 regular season games - 19 points in 24 games. However, that deceiving state-line doesn't change the fact that he wasn't producing for the last 18 games of the regular season. So I would agree that the wings wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for Franzen's "ridiculous surge for six games with about a quarter of the season left to play". But, I would also agree that if Franzen actually would've showed up for the last 18 games of the season we would have easily made the playoffs and probably would be playing the Pens rather than the Bruins. He absolutely does not deserve praise for helping us make the playoffs. There's a reason the credit is going to all of the "kids" on the team. 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoalieManPat 1,007 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either This would be true if Franzen actually used his size. Franzen plays like hes 5 foot 6. You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right? You do realize if he hadn't completely disappeared for the last month and a half of the season when the team needed him most they wouldn't have been an 8 seed. Nyquist hot streak was what really got the Wings in the playoffs. Its not just that Franzen wasnt producing points. He wasnt doing ANYTHING on the ice that could be considered productive. Edited April 25, 2014 by GoalieManPat 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MabusIncarnate 5,344 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 I'm a little confused by his "ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season". Franzen had 1 goal and 7 points in the last 18 games of the regular season Are you confusing Franzen with Nyquist? Granted, Franzen had 12 points in the 6 games prior to that slump. Which of course makes his stat-line look better when looking at the last 24 regular season games - 19 points in 24 games. However, that deceiving state-line doesn't change the fact that he wasn't producing for the last 18 games of the regular season. So I would agree that the wings wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for Franzen's "ridiculous surge for six games with about a quarter of the season left to play". But, I would also agree that if Franzen actually would've showed up for the last 18 games of the season we would have easily made the playoffs and probably would be playing the Pens rather than the Bruins. He absolutely does not deserve praise for helping us make the playoffs. There's a reason the credit is going to all of the "kids" on the team. I think what he is referring to is the 7-8 game hot streak he went on immediately after the Olympics. In that respect I do agree, had he not played that well for those games we likely lose 2-3 of them instead of winning and possibly miss the playoffs altogether. What the key here is, and it's how most around here feel about him, putting in that effort for only 20% of the season isn't going to cut it and the money can be spent better elsewhere. On a fan forum for a sports team, there will always be those players that people are going to target and they will be on again and off again about depending on performance. If everyone held the same opinion of everything always, this forum would be pretty boring. Attempting to gain justification of someone's opinion on a discussion board to me is a lost cause. 1 roboturner reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unsaddleddonald 357 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either I think Mantha, Sheahan, and Jurco are part of the solution there, but to fully realize that won't be for another couple years.... 1 Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beachwing 426 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The question with Mule is this: Does he take us closer to being cup contender or farther away from it? No denying what a talent and times unstoppable force he can be. BUT the constant guessing of which mule is going to show up takes its toll from the top down. Wish he was always trying even if not successful. I think his anxiety issues + pressure have really done him in last few years. 1 unsaddleddonald reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The way he played down the stretch, the way he's played in the playoffs, the way Babs is talking about him, the way the Detroit media seems to have turned on him, all of that leads me to believe he might be headed to a buyout. And honestly, it wouldn't hurt us too much. Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader Nyquist-Weiss-FA/Legwand/Alfredsson Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco Miller-Helm-Glendening/Andersson/Callahan/Ferraro We'd have a ton of cap space to add an impact forward too, I know I want him gone, and as much sense as it makes to get rid of him, I just don't see Kenny biting the bullet. Instead he'll say he knows what Franzen is capable of and hopes to see a healthy season of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings_fanatic 677 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 The way he played down the stretch, the way he's played in the playoffs, the way Babs is talking about him, the way the Detroit media seems to have turned on him, all of that leads me to believe he might be headed to a buyout. And honestly, it wouldn't hurt us too much. Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader Nyquist-Weiss-FA/Legwand/Alfredsson Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco Miller-Helm-Glendening/Andersson/Callahan/Ferraro We'd have a ton of cap space to add an impact forward too, I know I want him gone, and as much sense as it makes to get rid of him, I just don't see Kenny biting the bullet. Instead he'll say he knows what Franzen is capable of and hopes to see a healthy season of him. I hate franzen as much as anyone but I don't recall babs saying anything specific about him. I would buy him out and try to sign Marian gaborick to a reasonable contract. Gaborick does have a tendency to get hurt sometimes but he plays a very similar way to hossa and can sure score goals. I say sign gaborick and danny Boyle this off season and we have a much better team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loutswings 47 Report post Posted April 25, 2014 I really wouldn't mind keeping him on the team but his contract is terrible. He's good for 20+ goals but don't count on him being physical. He played with fire during the 08 season. Maybe a change of scenery would do him good. I don't know about buying him out but I wouldn't mind see if you could try to trade him somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites