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#1 greene709

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:12 AM

Article on Puck Daddy:

 

http://sports.yahoo....-200816192.html



#2 hathorlive

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:24 AM

If I have to listen to one more person whose never been to Michigan dis Detroit, I'm going to scream.  I actually moved here last year over Chicago because I have the opportunity to own a house.   Detroit is not why FAs aren't signing.  Something is very wrong with this team, be it the team vibe, the coach or management.  From what I've heard from insiders (people who actually work with the team) Babcock has lost the locker room.  Until we figure out the problem and solve it, there will be rough times ahead.  And if the GM can't diagnosis the problem then perhaps he needs a new job.



#3 amato

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:51 AM

If I have to listen to one more person whose never been to Michigan dis Detroit, I'm going to scream.  I actually moved here last year over Chicago because I have the opportunity to own a house.   Detroit is not why FAs aren't signing.  Something is very wrong with this team, be it the team vibe, the coach or management.  From what I've heard from insiders (people who actually work with the team) Babcock has lost the locker room.  Until we figure out the problem and solve it, there will be rough times ahead.  And if the GM can't diagnosis the problem then perhaps he needs a new job.

 

I agree it's not why people aren't signing here but I didn't see anything in that article "dis detroit" as a city..? 

 

I've heard that players don't like babs but that they also respect him as a coach... I don't think he's lost the locker room, but I could be wrong.There are different reasons players haven't been signing here and they all seem personal to the player, not pinnable to one thing about the red wings' organization. I'm not worried about it though.. the growth of the kids is enough to get me excited about each season and I'm pretty excited to see a healthy weiss.. he can be a difference maker on the ice. although I am of course hoping for that elusive right handed top 4 d-man....


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#4 Shinzaki

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:06 AM

I'm sure the city is a factor...how could it not be?   I'm sure that there are countless variables that go into each individual player's decision on where to sign.  I'd be willing to admit that there probably isn't ONE factor that is common in all of these decisions.   I do find it galling that Ken Holland hasn't obtained some sort of voodoo skills that enable him to convince players they should come here when they want to be somewhere else.



#5 STL-Wings

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:47 AM

Sure the location of a team is a factor.  Not many are going to dream of living in Buffalo or Manitoba.  Detroit has it's issues like every city.  Chicago isn't a paradise, but they have a monster team right now.  LA can boast a great team and a great climate to live.  No one is shoveling snow in January as opposed to Detroit, New York, Saint Louis, or Boston.

 

But really it is the team/management.  Something is off in Detroit.  Part of it is just the natural decline of being a Top Three team for around twenty years esp in an expanding and leveling league.  It was going to end at some point.

 

Now the rebuild on the fly is the organization not wanting to put the fans through an Edmonton experience.  We are still competitive, but not at the same level.  Tanking isn't going to happen.  Financially we can't afford it.



#6 vladdy16

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:25 PM

There is nothing in this article bashing or dissing the city of Detroit in any way and we already gave our opinions on the state of the city the last few days.  Let's not turn this into discussing Detroit.


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#7 turbowhistle86

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:34 PM

Sure the location of a team is a factor.  Not many are going to dream of living in Buffalo or Manitoba.  Detroit has it's issues like every city.  Chicago isn't a paradise, but they have a monster team right now.  LA can boast a great team and a great climate to live.  No one is shoveling snow in January as opposed to Detroit, New York, Saint Louis, or Boston.

 

But really it is the team/management.  Something is off in Detroit.  Part of it is just the natural decline of being a Top Three team for around twenty years esp in an expanding and leveling league.  It was going to end at some point.

 

Now the rebuild on the fly is the organization not wanting to put the fans through an Edmonton experience.  We are still competitive, but not at the same level.  Tanking isn't going to happen.  Financially we can't afford it.

 

 

With the money these guys make, they aren't shoveling snow anyway unless they choose to.  This team will muddle through first round exits until there is a change in GM and coaching staff.  Let's face it....playing with Z and Pav (who are arguably on the decline) is not enough to lure the young talent here.  Plus they know that they'll likely be thrown on a 3rd or 4th line to maybe get 8-10 minutes a night. 

 

Ask yourself this (without the Red Wing blinders on) if you knew that you had a 6-10 year window, barring injuries, to make all the money you'd ever need and a chance to hoist the cup, would you want to make our current team your destinaton?


Edited by turbowhistle86, 03 July 2014 - 12:44 PM.


#8 Playmaker

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:21 PM

Look folks, free agents signed with Washington, Florida, Buffalo, NYI, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, etc.  Not all of those places have perfect living conditions, up and coming teams, or ideal management. 

 

I'm as disappointed as everyone else is, but I don't think it's one "thing" or that "all free agents" are avoiding Detroit because of the condition of the city or that the team is somehow not competitive any more.  If that's the case, would anyone sign with any of those other teams?

 

That said, I do think it may be a possibility that Ken Holland may be lowballing or may overestimate the "We're the Red Wings" card, but some of these things being speculated about seem so far out there. 

 

I also think it's far too early to be heaping praise upon Jim Nill and Steve Yzerman.  Their teams were both eliminated in the first round, just like the Red Wings.  Just because they made signings and trades doesn't necessarily mean they will pan out or look good a few years from now. 



#9 Playmaker

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:50 PM

 

With the money these guys make, they aren't shoveling snow anyway unless they choose to.  This team will muddle through first round exits until there is a change in GM and coaching staff.  Let's face it....playing with Z and Pav (who are arguably on the decline) is not enough to lure the young talent here.  Plus they know that they'll likely be thrown on a 3rd or 4th line to maybe get 8-10 minutes a night. 

 

Ask yourself this (without the Red Wing blinders on) if you knew that you had a 6-10 year window, barring injuries, to make all the money you'd ever need and a chance to hoist the cup, would you want to make our current team your destinaton?

I think I'd be like Matt Moulson and go to Buffalo.  I mean, what a well run organization with great history and how about those mild Buffalo winters?  Or I think I'd be like Niskanen.  Not worry about money and go to a team on the cusp with such great fans and storied history like the Caps.  Or maybe I'd think like Ryan Miller and go to the Canucks.  Now there's a team that's got their s*** together!



#10 Mckinley25

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:42 PM

I think I'd be like Matt Moulson and go to Buffalo.  I mean, what a well run organization with great history and how about those mild Buffalo winters?  Or I think I'd be like Niskanen.  Not worry about money and go to a team on the cusp with such great fans and storied history like the Caps.  Or maybe I'd think like Ryan Miller and go to the Canucks.  Now there's a team that's got their s*** together!


These are great points, but whats the answer then? Its not like Washington was in a better place to win then we were before July 1st. Is it Babcock? We've all heard he's not pleasant. Or is it just everyone is sick of Detroit being good? Or a combination of a lot of things?

#11 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:52 PM

well something is wrong.  I agree with some of you, why is Washington more attractive than Detroit? Last I read (not turning this into a city debate, but real quick) Washington had a higher crime and murder rate than Detroit, as do a lot of cities per capita.  We do have dynamic players to play with. Washington has Ovi, we have Pav.  We have THE best ownership in the NHL.  It all boils down to players don't want to play for Babcock and #firekenholland tries to skimp on the money when it comes to outside UFA's. Then he overpays his own guys just to keep them. Even with Niskanen, his offer was about $2M less than Washington's.  He always tries to skimp on that extra bit, which recently has become the difference and players know it and usually don't even consider his offers...I am surprised that Ryan Suter ever verbally agreed to play here.  Taking away his family in Minny, in the end he still got more $$$ and term in Minny over what Holland offered.  It starts with Babcock and ends with #firekenholland.  Players don't want to play here for those reasons...


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#12 Playmaker

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:53 PM

I guess you'd have to ask the players.  I'd guess it's different for all players.  I'm sure for some, it's location.  For others, it's purely who offers the most cash/years for the most financial security.  Some want to play for a certain coach or with certain other players. 


Edited by Playmaker, 03 July 2014 - 04:55 PM.


#13 Playmaker

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:14 PM

well something is wrong.  I agree with some of you, why is Washington more attractive than Detroit? Last I read (not turning this into a city debate, but real quick) Washington had a higher crime and murder rate than Detroit, as do a lot of cities per capita.  We do have dynamic players to play with. Washington has Ovi, we have Pav.  We have THE best ownership in the NHL.  It all boils down to players don't want to play for Babcock and #firekenholland tries to skimp on the money when it comes to outside UFA's. Then he overpays his own guys just to keep them. Even with Niskanen, his offer was about $2M less than Washington's.  He always tries to skimp on that extra bit, which recently has become the difference and players know it and usually don't even consider his offers...I am surprised that Ryan Suter ever verbally agreed to play here.  Taking away his family in Minny, in the end he still got more $$$ and term in Minny over what Holland offered.  It starts with Babcock and ends with #firekenholland.  Players don't want to play here for those reasons...

I just don't think there's really any evidence that Mike Babcock is the problem.  I wouldn't think he'd have been asked back to coach Team Canada if there was an issue with getting along with players.  I really haven't read anywhere other than here that Babcock is a problem or that he can't get along with players.  

 

In Holland's defense, I think that the Parise/Suter buddying up as a package deal at the last minute had a lot to do with not signing Sutuer.  I think they tried for both, but obviously Suter was the main target.  Having two players signed for that long and for that amount with the lockout looming was a huge risk.  Even with that, Holland still made a really solid offer and Ilitch opened the checkbook, but he couldn't compete against the wives.  I think it's a lot like buying a house with multiple offers.  You can go in with your best offer, but you don't know what the other interested parties are offering.  You don't want to overbid and pay too much and you don't want to lowball either and lose out.

 

This year is more confusing. Boyle went somewhere for less money, but apparently he wanted the NYR and nothing else so long as they made an offer in the ballpark.  Not sure what the connection is. Ehrhoff's situation is odd also.  Maybe he just wanted a one year deal thinking he could get a better deal next year?  I don't know.  Same with Niskanen.  Did he go to Washington to be with Brooks Orpik?  Are they buddies?  Or was it just the place that offered the most money and the longest term?  



#14 frankgrimes

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:19 PM

I think it is a combination of a lot of things:

 

1. Personal preference

You can't do anything about that, see Parise, Suter

 

2.  Develano and his stupid comments

I'm not turning this into a lockout thread but I've said at the time his comments for sure won't be well received among his players nor leaguewide.

 

3. WoW Factor

Let's face it, this team doesn't have upcoming superstars and the two reamining ones are aging, dealing with more and more injuries. Getting a chance to play on a young team with a lot of questionmarks isn't going to entice top UFAs to sign here, especially if the offers are lower than they expected. 38 vs 40 million may not be a big differense over the whole contract but 2 million are two million, add to that the familarity factor between Niskanen and his former coach and voila he signs with the Caps.

 

Also this team is known as a very soft one which gets pushed around way too easily.

 

4. New CBA

Now that even contract lengths are caped we can't even offer longer contracts, so basically our money will be equal or comparable to the ones other teams are offering and if one of those other teams is a top team ==> we won't get the player :(

 

5. Payback for the lowballs

Holland expected players to take a paycut (be it slight or huge) in order to play for the RedWings, well this worked out when we've not only been a powerhouse but the team to beat..so players who wanted a chance at the cup gave up some money for their chance, now we are fighting for the playoffs and the tides are turning so Hollaand might have to significantly overpay in order to get the top UFAS, which coupled with point 4 isn't easy to do.

 

6. Amway Partnership

I honestly believe this partnership has harmed the reputation of the Wings a lot more than people would have thought.

 

At the end of the day, the best way to find out would be asking the agents why more and more UFAs are shying away from this team and then it will be Kenny's job to fix this in a hurry. He is getting paid the big bucks and now has to show everyone that he still has it -which I doubt after this UFA debacle and the last few years - but we'll see.

 

 

ps: I've read somewhere - think it was Bleacherrport - that Ehrhoff would have come here with a 5 year contract a 5 per but Kenny only offered 4 and wouldn't offer the 5 one, then the Pens came calling and he accepted their offer. If that's true then...oh well


Edited by frankgrimes, 03 July 2014 - 05:21 PM.

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#15 Copenhagen848

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:44 PM

Last year I was very excited about being able to watch the Wings on HBO's 24/7.  I was looking forward to seeing who the goofy guys were, the serious guys, etc, etc.  I was extremely disappointed to see just how BORING today's Red Wings are.  I didn't see any personality from the team...with the exception of a couple. 

 

You just don't see things like Yzerman giving his teammate a kiss on the "Kisscam" or Shanny motioning to the lady about hairy armpits while he's in the box, or Ozzie talking about how ripped he is in the pre-game.  I enjoyed watching the Maple Leafs on 24/7 much more than the Wings...their guys had personality and it was entertaining.

 

The Red Wings of today are boring, and I have to believe that plays a factor in F/A decision as well. 



#16 Mckinley25

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:48 PM

Last year I was very excited about being able to watch the Wings on HBO's 24/7.  I was looking forward to seeing who the goofy guys were, the serious guys, etc, etc.  I was extremely disappointed to see just how BORING today's Red Wings are.  I didn't see any personality from the team...with the exception of a couple. 
 
You just don't see things like Yzerman giving his teammate a kiss on the "Kisscam" or Shanny motioning to the lady about hairy armpits while he's in the box, or Ozzie talking about how ripped he is in the pre-game.  I enjoyed watching the Maple Leafs on 24/7 much more than the Wings...their guys had personality and it was entertaining.
 
The Red Wings of today are boring, and I have to believe that plays a factor in F/A decision as well. 


I think the Red Wings they showed on 24/7 were boring.

#17 MileHighWingsGuy

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:49 PM

I don't blame Holland for Parise/Suter not being signed but this team has been in need of retooling for years and nothing has been done. Last years fiasco really

brought the issue into full view when we had a glut of solid forwards and Kenny was still out signing Cleary. We desperately needed a trade last year and early this year

to trade some talent away up front and solidify the blue line yet nothing continues to be done. After losing out on every big name defenseman in FA Kenny proceeds to sign

Quincey in a statement that says screw it we'll just stay pat and do nothing. This is a team with no rudder and no vision. Nothing will happen with this team until we get a GM

that is capable of building off the talent we have, if I was a FA I'd stay away from this mess as well.


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#18 martinezsvsu

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

I think the Red Wings they showed on 24/7 were boring.

they should have just showed tatar partying every episode for 30 mins.



#19 Barrie

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

People need to check http://capgeek.com/redwings/ Tatar and DeKeyser need to be signed this off season, and Smith, Nyquist, Jurco, and Andersson need to be signed next off season. It's not smart to be signing UFA's when 6 of your future core players need contracts in 12 months.


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#20 evilmrt

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:55 PM

Perhaps it has to do with a perception around the league that Ken Holland and Jimmy Devellano likely have created. They have poisoned the waters, so to speak.

We only get little hints and the rare quotes, but what little we have seen seems to make sense in that context. It has very little to do with the city of Detroit, it's fans, and very little if nothing to do with the Joe. Let's just eliminate those from the realm of realistic possibility. So, what are we left with?

The front office...

The players....

The ownership...

Or

The coaching staff.

The core players are great, and we have no reason to believe otherwise, so that one can be scratched off. Ownership has historically been great as well, so this can easily be eliminated.

That leaves the Front Office, or the Coaching Staff.

Babs is Mr. Gold for Team Canada... I don't see how he could be creating this.

So, by process of elimination, we are left with the Front Office.





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