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anthonyn66

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Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

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I've been thinking along these same lines (pun). I get that it's top-six-or-the-farm for Mantha in people's eyes, but Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco's basically a sheltered scoring line, a young two-way pivot flanked by two young goal-scoring wingers. In theory (and, admittedly, it's probably a stretch), Mantha - in for Jurco - would keep that basic dynamic. And I've loved the idea of Jurco with Z and D for some time now.

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist is, I think, pretty much an inevitability. I'm not crazy about it, but if Weiss can be the player he was for the Panthers, or even just somewhere close to that, it should work well. Chemistry might be an issue, but Nyquist seems to be able to excel alongside anyone, especially fellow Swedes. Miller-Helm-Abdelkader is probably my ideal fourth line, but I feel like Callahan in for Miller or for Abdelkader (preferably the former, I guess) would be good for us.

(Cleary sux)

I like where your head is at with Mantha on the third with Tatar and Sheahan. I don't know if Jurco is ready for the top 6, but if we're doing a ten game experiment with Cleary, why not not see if Jurco can pull the piano for Datsyuk? I also like the idea of Jurco, Sheahan, Mantha, as a third line, just because of the size on that line. I don't know where Tatar would go, though.

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I like where your head is at with Mantha on the third with Tatar and Sheahan. I don't know if Jurco is ready for the top 6, but if we're doing a ten game experiment with Cleary, why not not see if Jurco can pull the piano for Datsyuk? I also like the idea of Jurco, Sheahan, Mantha, as a third line, just because of the size on that line. I don't know where Tatar would go, though.

I dunno, I feel like if Z and D are his linemates and his job is mostly to create space and drive the net, Jurco would be just fine on the top line. That's the thing, though - I'd want him with at least one of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I wouldn't put him with, say, Franzen and Weiss.

I think I'd take Tatar-Sheahan-Mantha over Jurco with Shahan and Mantha because 1) Jurco and Mantha are both best suited for the right side while Tatar is best suited for the left, and 2) Tatar is the possession driver that makes the whole thing (keeping the puck in the o-zone) work. Jurco's size and strength might make things easier for Mantha, though, and I like the idea of Tatar in the top six, as long as he's with at least one of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Of course, this is all probably moot. Mantha is likely spending most of the season on the farm (a good call) and Cleary's a lock for the first line and Hall of Fame (duh).

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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don't mean to bump this, but just put Dan Cleary's equipment, sticks and golf clubs on a flight to Denver... I was so hoping to log in here a see that he was dealt to the Avs...oh well...

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don't mean to bump this, but just put Dan Cleary's equipment, sticks and golf clubs on a flight to Denver... I was so hoping to log in here a see that he was dealt to the Avs...oh well...

I'm pretty sure he's got a ntc

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don't mean to bump this, but just put Dan Cleary's equipment, sticks and golf clubs on a flight to Denver... I was so hoping to log in here a see that he was dealt to the Avs...oh well...

I'm confused...Do you work at the airport?

Edit: Sorry, I guess I don't get that one.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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I'm confused...Do you work at the airport?

I'd like to think he's playing a prank and Cleary is not going to Denver.

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Yes, I work for THE major airline at DTW. Yes Dan Cleary went to Denver, but it was NOT in a trade. He was on a flight I was working. He took his Golf Clubs, Equipment Bag, Sticks and of course regular suitcase. I was just excited for a minute HOPING to log on here and see that a trade package had been made. (even though I know he has a NTC, but like I said, one could wish! :lol: )

I am assuming that he is probably doing something in the Denver area for charity or just going to skate with some others while he is out there. When I bumped this thread I was half way making fun, even though he did go to Denver....just not traded. (as far as we know yet! :lol: ) Maybe he is out there taking a physical and seeing if Colorado wants him. Maybe he waived his NTC to go to the Avs. Like I said, one can wish, right? :P

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:lol: Fortunately I didn't have to look at him from below the wing. He was riding in style in 1st class though!

In all seriousness, it would be great to have him return to a better form. I do wish for nothing but the best for all of our players...yes, even Franzen. But if there wasn't someone to complain about how fun would debates be?

BTW, in my 25 years at Metro, and meeting hundreds and hundreds of players (NHL, NBA and NFL)(especially in the early to mid 90's when only two NHL teams had planes and the rest all flew Northwest (#screw Delta)) the ONLY player I wanted an autograph from (and got) was #24 Bob Probert!

Oh, and Rowdy Roddy Piper!

Edited by LeftWinger
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I think it is a pretty regular thing (training in Vail, Colorado this time of year) for several players like Crosby, Duschene, MacKinnon, Stamkos, E. Johnson, Cleary as well..in the past.

I know Crosby is/was there during this time as it was made pretty public (Ottawa paper reported he was arrested in Ottawa....which was quickly retracted as he was in Colorado at the time).

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From the article: General manager Ken Holland kept a promise he made to Cleary during last year's training camp by re-signing him, a move met with overwhelming disapproval by the fan base. But Holland and coach Mike Babcock are big supporters of Cleary.

I have to say, I find it interesting how so many people s*** all over Holland for the Cleary signing, but you never hear a bad thing about Babcock when its pretty evident that Babcock wanted the signing as well.

Dont get me wrong, I wish Holland never made Cleary the promise he did last year, but it is what it is.

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From the article: General manager Ken Holland kept a promise he made to Cleary during last year's training camp by re-signing him, a move met with overwhelming disapproval by the fan base. But Holland and coach Mike Babcock are big supporters of Cleary.

I have to say, I find it interesting how so many people s*** all over Holland for the Cleary signing, but you never hear a bad thing about Babcock when its pretty evident that Babcock wanted the signing as well.

Dont get me wrong, I wish Holland never made Cleary the promise he did last year, but it is what it is.

Really? Multiple times in many threads people have placed most of the blame on Babcock, saying he fought for Cleary to be here.

Babcock is obviously a fan. Cleary is fearless and goes to the net like few players on the Wings do. Multiple times it's been cited that Babcock, the players, and Holland wanted Cleary back. But Holland is the one ultimately responsible for the roster.

Also, please don't circumvent the profanity filter.

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Haha, I knew Harold would be all over this one. I was just waiting to see how long it took. You didn't disappoint.

:lol: It is a pet peeve. It's like blaming Holland for a player's ice time. He has an opinion in how players should be utilized but it's ultimately not his call.

Even if someone disagrees whose fault it is, there's certainly no disputing that Babcock has gotten plenty of flack for the Cleary signing here.

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They should both be kicked in the nuts for it. The team could have given Danny Boy a nice cushy job as VP of Cheerleading or something else and paid him without taking up a roster spot and cap space. The guy's knees are shot, he needs to get over it and retire.

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They should both be kicked in the nuts for it. The team could have given Danny Boy a nice cushy job as VP of Cheerleading or something else and paid him without taking up a roster spot and cap space. The guy's knees are shot, he needs to get over it and retire.

Surely you aren't seeing things very Cleary

This team could use a few more heart and soul Danny-boys

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Really? Multiple times in many threads people have placed most of the blame on Babcock, saying he fought for Cleary to be here.

Babcock is obviously a fan. Cleary is fearless and goes to the net like few players on the Wings do. Multiple times it's been cited that Babcock, the players, and Holland wanted Cleary back. But Holland is the one ultimately responsible for the roster.

Also, please don't circumvent the profanity filter.

There is thread after thread of people absolutely bashing Holland and saying he needs to go, but I haven't read a single post saying that Babcock needs to be fired. There are some putting him down, but not like Holland. But to be fair I dont read every post in every thread.

I 100% agree with you that Holland is responsible for the roster, my point wasn't that Babcock deserves blame (I get why they signed Cleary, a promise was made last year, and the Wings kept their word). The point I was trying to make is that people are so quick to jump down Hollands throat in comparison to others because that seems to be the thing to do right now.

In all seriousness, my apologies for circumventing the profanity filter. I have seen people do it in a number of threads and I thought it was allowed.

Edited by kliq

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My father always buys me a couple really nice seats to the games for my birthday gift. I had to tell him not to buy anything related to the Red Wings do the signings that Holland has made.

Edited by Vladiator

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There is thread after thread of people absolutely bashing Holland and saying he needs to go, but I haven't read a single post saying that Babcock needs to be fired. There are some putting him down, but not like Holland. But to be fair I dont read every post in every thread.

I 100% agree with you that Holland is responsible for the roster, my point wasn't that Babcock deserves blame (I get why they signed Cleary, a promise was made last year, and the Wings kept their word). The point I was trying to make is that people are so quick to jump down Hollands throat in comparison to others because that seems to be the thing to do right now.

In all seriousness, my apologies for circumventing the profanity filter. I have seen people do it in a number of threads and I thought it was allowed.

I think the difference between the two is Babcock has taken Holland's makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive. Babs certainly has his faults, but how many coaches get last year's version of the Red Wings into the playoffs at all given the circumstances? I have gotten on Babs in the past for his stubbornness and certain personnel decisions, though in reality he has done exceptional work and last season was probably his best coaching job to date.

I don't want to turn this into another bash Holland thread, but I think the track record since 2009 speaks for itself. That's why the general manager has taken more heat than the head coach. Babs can only coach up the players he's given so much.

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I think the difference between the two is Babcock has taken Holland's makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive. Babs certainly has his faults, but how many coaches get last year's version of the Red Wings into the playoffs at all given the circumstances? I have gotten on Babs in the past for his stubbornness and certain personnel decisions, though in reality he has done exceptional work and last season was probably his best coaching job to date.

Thank you :) that's exactly my point. You may not agree with everything I have said, but your view on what some fans are saying, is the point I am trying to make.

A large chunk of Red Wings fans hate the fact they we are currently going through a re-build, and have a hard time accepting that we are not currently cup contenders. They look at everything Holland does under a microscope, and when he does something they do not agree with (ie. Cleary signing, Quincy signing, Legwand trade) they call for his head. While Babcock who overall people are happy with right now, may have the same opinions as Holland, but at the end of the day only gets a few people slightly disagreeing/mad at him, never the outrage that is currently being pointed at Holland, nor do I think he should. Babcock has done one heck of a job in Detroit, especially last year with all the injuries.

I fully realize that Holland is the GM, Babcock is the coach, and the roster is Holland's responsibility, but my point is that people are overly critical of Holland right now due to the re-build.

The only thing I disagree with you on is your verbiage of "makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive" as I look at what Holland has been doing a re-build, but one in where he is maintaining competitiveness (please don't mistaken competitiveness with contending) during it, rather then doing an Edmonton and getting rid of everyone. IMO a much smarter way to do it.

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Thank you :) that's exactly my point. You may not agree with everything I have said, but your view on what some fans are saying, is the point I am trying to make.

A large chunk of Red Wings fans hate the fact they we are currently going through a re-build, and have a hard time accepting that we are not currently cup contenders. They look at everything Holland does under a microscope, and when he does something they do not agree with (ie. Cleary signing, Quincy signing, Legwand trade) they call for his head. While Babcock who overall people are happy with right now, may have the same opinions as Holland, but at the end of the day only gets a few people slightly disagreeing/mad at him, never the outrage that is currently being pointed at Holland, nor do I think he should. Babcock has done one heck of a job in Detroit, especially last year with all the injuries.

I fully realize that Holland is the GM, Babcock is the coach, and the roster is Holland's responsibility, but my point is that people are overly critical of Holland right now due to the re-build.

The only thing I disagree with you on is your verbiage of "makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive" as I look at what Holland has been doing a re-build, but one in where he is maintaining competitiveness (please don't mistaken competitiveness with contending) during it, rather then doing an Edmonton and getting rid of everyone. IMO a much smarter way to do it.

The problem I have is I think you're both grossly underestimating how much Babcock influences the roster. He's routinely expressed his desire to have Cleary on the team, he had words with Weiss before he gave his stamp of approval on signing him, etc. etc.

Ken and Babs have always expressed that they have a great working relationship and go to one another for input and advice. Which I assume means mostly Holland going to Babcock for opinions on players. To think that Babcock does not have heavy say on his roster comes off to me as a little naive. Holland very much had his own opinion, and his word is final, but his decisions are also very much influenced by what he's told by his scouts and coaches.

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The problem I have is I think you're both grossly underestimating how much Babcock influences the roster. He's routinely expressed his desire to have Cleary on the team, he had words with Weiss before he gave his stamp of approval on signing him, etc. etc.

Ken and Babs have always expressed that they have a great working relationship and go to one another for input and advice. Which I assume means mostly Holland going to Babcock for opinions on players. To think that Babcock does not have heavy say on his roster comes off to me as a little naive. Holland very much had his own opinion, and his word is final, but his decisions are also very much influenced by what he's told by his scouts and coaches.

I 100% agree with you.

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I have no doubt that Babcock and Holland chat now and then about potential player moves and Babcock provides input, etc. However, beyond that, I have no idea how much influence Babcock actually has on the players that make it to the team at the end of the day. He may have a lot of influence, he may have very little. The fact of the matter is, no one on this site knows how much or how little influence he has either (unless you or someone you are close with is part of the GM's office).

Same could be said about final roster. Typically the GM brings in the players and then it's the coaches job to pick the final roster from that overall group of players and then also make call up decisions when needed, etc. The GM is obviously going to have some input in that process, but again, how little or how much is likely not known by most.

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