The return of The Mule?

[barabbas16 499]

Wow - ok sorry guys. Jurco rules... not disppointing at all. Patience is a virtue, people!

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't think anyone is saying Jurco had an awesome season. By most standards and expectations I think LGW can agree that Jurco wasn't as productive as we were expecting, especially given how he played the year before, and all the hype that has surrounded him the past few years.

But that's not to say he is irrelevant to the team, and it's also not worth trading him for a bag of pucks due to one (offensively) down year.

[kipwinger 8,756]

Hyperbole, last refuge of flawed logic.

Person 1: We should trade Jurco, he was completely worthless!

Pretty Much Everybody Else: No he wasn't, he just didn't score a lot. He's still got plenty of upside. And he's young.

Person 1: Fine! Jurco rules! Not disappointing at all.

Pretty Much Everybody Else: Yeah, that's what we said.

[evilmrt 636]

Jurco did disappoint last season, but he was also forced into a role he has never played in his entire career. He was expected to be a grinder, when he simply isn't that type of player. Jurco is a future top 6 winger. It's absolutely crazy how quick fans are willing to give up on a player. The kid is still only 22 years old and should have spent another season in Grand Rapids. If he did, he would have been just as, or even more highly regarded than Pulkkinen or Athanasiou.

Are we to assume Babcock wanted Jurco up in Detroit so much? I worry that he f-ed up his development. He certainly should have spent most of the season in GR.

[kipwinger 8,756]

Are we to assume Babcock wanted Jurco up in Detroit so much? I worry that he f-ed up his development. He certainly should have spent most of the season in GR.

You don't have to assume anything. Babcock was explicit in his desire to keep Jurco in Detroit. And while it probably didn't do him any favors, I'd be pretty reluctant to say that he f***ed up Jurco's development. At worst he probably delayed it, a little bit, but that's all.

I've been Babcock's most vocal critic for a long time. But I've got no problem with the way he's handled young guys. He doesn't put them in over their heads. He doesn't make them carry too much of the load. And he emphasizes the fundamentals of the pro-game, rather than take the easy way out. That's what he was doing with Jurco, and given how it worked for other young Red Wings, I'd say it's the right idea.

[WingedWheel91 271]

I think most people are missing the point and/or are taking things personally...

We get that just because Jurco had a terrible season, doesn't mean he's going to have a terrible career. But if the 2-3 year projections put him in the 40-50 point range, how is he not expendable? No-one wants to lose him for nothing, but we already have a surplus of young players who can provide those numbers, and unfortunately we have other more pressing needs. Going back to what turned this thread around: The idea of trading Jurco in a package for Dion Phanuef (who is a defenseman capable of putting up 40-50 points today) makes our team better. Plain and Simple.

Tomas Jurco has never impressed offensively at any level of his career - 68 points following your draft year in the QMJHL doesn't excite me... Daniel Cleary had 115 for f*** sake. He also doesn't "excel" defensively and I have no idea who started this notion... As I said, he was the only regular forward on our roster who didn't kill 1 penalty all of last season. Honestly, 40-50 point left handed shooting wingers who don't do anything exceptional are called unrestricted free agents.

No were not releasing him, or turning our backs on him because we think he's terrible. I think were saying trade him to make the team better, knowing he can be easily replaced through free agency or the draft. You also have to give to get, and I think there are still teams that might bite on his potential at age 22.

[barabbas16 499]

Hyperbole, last refuge of flawed logic.

Person 1: We should trade Jurco, he was completely worthless!

Pretty Much Everybody Else: No he wasn't, he just didn't score a lot. He's still got plenty of upside. And he's young.

Person 1: Fine! Jurco rules! Not disappointing at all.

Pretty Much Everybody Else: Yeah, that's what we said.

Why do you feel the need to be a jerk about it?

Edited June 2, 2015 by barabbas16

[kipwinger 8,756]

I think most people are missing the point and/or are taking things personally...

We get that just because Jurco had a terrible season, doesn't mean he's going to have a terrible career. But if the 2-3 year projections put him in the 40-50 point range, how is he not expendable? No-one wants to lose him for nothing, but we already have a surplus of young players who can provide those numbers, and unfortunately we have other more pressing needs. Going back to what turned this thread around: The idea of trading Jurco in a package for Dion Phanuef (who is a defenseman capable of putting up 40-50 points today) makes our team better. Plain and Simple.

Tomas Jurco has never impressed offensively at any level of his career - 68 points following your draft year in the QMJHL doesn't excite me... Daniel Cleary had 115 for f*** sake. He also doesn't "excel" defensively and I have no idea who started this notion... As I said, he was the only regular forward on our roster who didn't kill 1 penalty all of last season. Honestly, 40-50 point left handed shooting wingers who don't do anything exceptional are called unrestricted free agents.

No were not releasing him, or turning our backs on him because we think he's terrible. I think were saying trade him to make the team better, knowing he can be easily replaced through free agency or the draft. You also have to give to get, and I think there are still teams that might bite on his potential at age 22.

Hogwash. You do think he's terrible. You're agreeing with a guy who called him completely worthless. Now you're just trying to justify getting rid of him, post hoc.

Secondly, yes he has impressed offensively. He scored at a point per game pace in the AHL the year he was called up for good. 32 points in 32 games. For comparison's sake, Nyquist scored 58 points in 56 games prior to his first extended call up, and Tatar never scored a point per game. Both of them got sent back down for additional seasoning after their first call ups. Jurco didn't. Which is why it's taking him longer to hit his potential.

Secondly, we had 6 players put up more than 40 points this year. Three of them will be 35 years old, or older, next year. One of them was a defenseman. So no, we don't have a "surplus of young players who can provide those numbers". We have 3 young players that can do it, Abby, Nyquist, and Tatar. And two of them have only done it once.

Why do you feel the need to be a jerk about it?

Because you said the guy was completely worthless, got called on it, and then put words in everybody else's mouths. Nobody said he was awesome, or that he ruled, or anything else like it. You said that in order to distort our positions and make yours seem more reasonable. Which it wasn't. It's a strawman argument. You're hardly the first person to do it. And it's obnoxious each and every time.

If you don't want people "be a jerk about it", don't call players worthless and then distort people's positions when they disagree with you. Believe it or not, most of us are here to talk about hockey. And comments like that, and your subsequent behavior, make our ears perk up a bit.

Edited June 2, 2015 by kipwinger

[WingedWheel91 271]

Kipwinger

I don't know why you respond to people (including me) as if you know them personally. I have no idea if your a 13 year old kid with nothing to do, or a 65 year old retired lady waiting for my response so you can argue it immediately. I will end this dialogue for those reasons. I can also tell you probably have never played the game of hockey (correct me if I'm wrong) at any notable level, so was probably always a waste of time

Thanks

[kipwinger 8,756]

Kipwinger

I don't know why you respond to people (including me) as if you know them personally. I have no idea if your a 13 year old kid with nothing to do, or a 65 year old retired lady waiting for my response so you can argue it immediately. I will end this dialogue for those reasons. I can also tell you probably have never played the game of hockey (correct me if I'm wrong) at any notable level, so was probably always a waste of time

Thanks

Now now, no need for that. I just disagree with you about Jurco, vociferously. But that doesn't mean we can't be friends. I'll assume that this post is exactly that, a dust up amongst old pals. And I'll take note of the fact that when I disagree with you in the future, you'd probably prefer that I do so in a gentler way.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

Kipwinger

I don't know why you respond to people (including me) as if you know them personally. I have no idea if your a 13 year old kid with nothing to do, or a 65 year old retired lady waiting for my response so you can argue it immediately. I will end this dialogue for those reasons. I can also tell you probably have never played the game of hockey (correct me if I'm wrong) at any notable level, so was probably always a waste of time

Thanks

Sooo...in your mind, only people who "play(ed) the game of hockey at a notable level" are to be taken seriously if they disagree with you or have their opinions valued? Give me a break.

[Mckinley25 679]

Sooo...in your mind, only people who "play(ed) the game of hockey at a notable level" are to be taken seriously if they disagree with you or have their opinions valued? Give me a break.

That's why I have no opinions on the civil war.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

Sooo...in your mind, only people who "play(ed) the game of hockey at a notable level" are to be taken seriously if they disagree with you or have their opinions valued? Give me a break.

Agreed. Many quality sportscasters, sports reporters, and coaches never played at the pro level while numerous former pro athletes stink in these fields.

One need not have lived on the moon to be an astronomer. Men can be gynecologists.

[Helmethead 235]

I always wanted to be a gynecologist but too much subtle interference derailed my dream.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

I like how this thread went from the topic of Franzen's chances of a return to the subject of Jurco and his feasibility as a Red Wing. I guess it's okay since at least one moderator has contributed.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Kipwinger

I don't know why you respond to people (including me) as if you know them personally. I have no idea if your a 13 year old kid with nothing to do, or a 65 year old retired lady waiting for my response so you can argue it immediately. I will end this dialogue for those reasons. I can also tell you probably have never played the game of hockey (correct me if I'm wrong) at any notable level, so was probably always a waste of time

Thanks

What would be awesome is if Kip actually was a 65 year old retired lady and was playing hockey at a notable level right now.

[Helmethead 235]

Yeah. kipwinger-Franzen-Jurco. That line could be devastating.

[Holmstrom96 347]

Well you weren't the one regularly insinuating that Franzen was a homosexual malingerer either. But that didn't stop plenty of people from doing so.

I never saw any of that on the board, but I'm not as involved as others. I agree that it's completely irrelevant to discuss what his sexual orientation may or may not be.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Yeah. kipwinger-Franzen-Jurco. That line could be devastating.

Needs more grit and toughness.

Add GMR

Edited June 3, 2015 by darkmanx

[hooon 1,089]

Needs more grit and toughness.

Add GMR

And KH just hired Blueadams as the new head coach. He already has a few ideas for line combos.

[The Secret 304]

Retire please. Time to move on!

[frankgrimes 1,836]

All I care about is him being able to enjoy a healthy life module doesn't screw it up his family should be set up for life financially and he won't need the extra money, so think about your health first mule

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

So for all you guys who are so concerned for Franzen's health...If doctors declare him healthy enough to return and claim he's at no more risk of serious injury than many players in the league...You'll fully support him as a player?

Or are you all just hiding behind a shroud of caring?

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

So for all you guys who are so concerned for Franzen's health...If doctors declare him healthy enough to return and claim he's at no more risk of serious injury than many players in the league...You'll fully support him as a player?

Or are you all just hiding behind a shroud of caring?

I'll be excited for his 15-30 goals and ability to play up and down in the top nine, at wing and c if we absolutely needed him to.

[kickazz 5,459]

So for all you guys who are so concerned for Franzen's health...If doctors declare him healthy enough to return and claim he's at no more risk of serious injury than many players in the league...You'll fully support him as a player?

Or are you all just hiding behind a shroud of caring?

The first thing I'll do is question where the doctors went to medical school and did their residency.