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Richdg

Fixing this mess....

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From the current roster:

-Trade Howard (if possible). Free's up much needed cap space. Sign vet backup, hand keys to Mrazek.

-Let Richards and Miller walk. Helm too if he wants more than ~ $3mil over 3 years. Quincy I would love to resign short term but let him walk too, unless we jettison Ericsson.

-Resign Sheahan, Dekeyser, Marchenko, Mrazek and I guess Pulkkinen.

Guys to target:

-Obviously Stamkos. Guy is elite, we need an elite player and he's only 26. If you can sign him for anything under 10 mil/yr do it.

-Yandle. I would be comfortable anywhere around 6mil for 4-5 years. Maybe that's lowballing him? Obviously can't do both Stamkos and Yandle unless serious moves are made.

-Everyone else out there like Lucic, Eriksson, Ladd, Backes are going to want too much and too much term for their age. Let's not forget that after you hit 30 scoring production declines.

I know it's never done, and KH is the least likely to make a move like this but I would throw an offer sheet at an RFA who's team is close to the cap. If the Bolts resign Stamkos they may have trouble matching an offer for Kucherov. Kid is 23 and not yet in his prime. If we can't trade for Vatanen, throw an offer sheet his way. Not realistic I know, but if you want a stud for his prime years this is the way to do it.

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Let's be realistic. When was the last time this team (or any team) filled that many holes with either free agency or trades? Two top 6 wingers and a top pair defenseman. That's not easy to find. More than likely, we will move up some plugs to fill those spots and bring more guys in from the minors to fill the spots of the plugs.

I didn't say all of those holes would be filled via trades or UFA. If any of the guys that could be moved but are not moved they will be on the roster. Youth can/will come up at some point. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the names listed (in the lines or in the could be traded list) are in fact our team next year. I am not conviced that Holland wants to or likes to bring in guys from the outside.

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BTW we are closer in points to the Oilers-23 than we are to the Caps-27. Any bets which team we will be closer to next season?

I thought about something similar from time to time today, which is that the Edmonton Oilers will surpass us in points next season.

To answer your question we'd be closer to Edmonton as the Capitals by all accounts would be above both of said teams.

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I thought about something similar from time to time today, which is that the Edmonton Oilers will surpass us in points next season.

To answer your question we'd be closer to Edmonton as the Capitals by all accounts would be above both of said teams.

I doubt they pass us next year, but I do see them better and us worse.

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I doubt they pass us next year, but I do see them better and us worse.

I hope you're right. You probably are. By a smallish margin.

But this McJesus kid could change things. Has most points/game of all NHL players including Ovechkin and Crosby at age 19.

Set up their defense properly, give him a grinder/protector and we have the Gretzky Oilers back in a few years. Perhaps place Taylor Hall as McDavid's reciever just like Gretzky had Kurri.

Edited by Jacksoni

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I didn't say all of those holes would be filled via trades or UFA. If any of the guys that could be moved but are not moved they will be on the roster. Youth can/will come up at some point. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the names listed (in the lines or in the could be traded list) are in fact our team next year. I am not conviced that Holland wants to or likes to bring in guys from the outside.

Green

Richards

Tootoo

Commodore

Gustavesson

Weiss

White

Conklin

Alfredsson

Modano

Hossa

Legwand

Brunner

Recent outsiders that we've had on the roster off the top of my head. We usually have some Free agents on the roster. Usually supporting players.

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Green

Richards

Tootoo

Commodore

Gustavesson

Weiss

White

Conklin

Alfredsson

Modano

Hossa

Legwand

Brunner

Recent outsiders that we've had on the roster off the top of my head. We usually have some Free agents on the roster. Usually supporting players.

+Zidlicky & Cole, on the top of My head.

Edited by Jacksoni

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Ok, so, trade whatever to make space....Howard and Pav's contract are a must trade. IF Blashill doesn't like to play Smth, Pulk or Jurco, then trade them as well...

Sign Backes, Okposo and Yandle (and a competent Backup goalie.) Promote the rest from within, game on.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Regarding Stamkos...a) top level talent will get paid more rather than less over the years and b) cap will go up rather than down. That said, offer him more than 10 a year. 12, 13, I don't care. Because thats going to be for 8-10 years, I guess, and in the 2nd half the contract gets cheaper in relation to other contracts leaguewide. Because they'll all continue to rise.

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When did I say that? I think of them in a realistic way. Just as I did with Tatar and Goose it's not my nor their fault that some people thought they were going to be the next Euro twins, or 30+ goal scorers. Larkin and Mantha are the only 2 young guys I'm really high on and I believe they should work out very well in the future. That doesn't mean I'm expecting them to become superstars or anything crazy like that just 2 solid pieces to start a rebuild around, on the backend it's of course Danny D. other than those 3 everyone has to be available for the right deal.

The Wings are an Original 6 team, with a rich history and a ton of great players of course but Stamkos and Meehan (his agent) aren't stupid, they'll do their homework and look at the future. And this means he will look at what team has the chance to win a cup in the next few years or if none of them are having the capspace the next best thing will be family reasons and sadly the edge here goes to Toronto. Although If I were him I would sign there and deal with the over the top spotlight. I'm more than sure Meehan will listen to the Wings offer and push it to Stamkos but there will be a ton of other teams doing the same. Toronto will push their come home and IF you win a cup you are a god here...BS and mentioning by one word what happens, if he doesn't or has a scoring slump. But I'm sure Stammer is intelligent enough to ask Phaneuf and Kessel what it means to play there and being blamed and constantly bothered by stupid reporters.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if some team no one expected comes out of the shadows and gets this guy. But even if the Wings get him he can't stop there the defense needs to be fixed too and I highly doubt that can be done in 1 off-season maybe I'm completely wrong and the Wings get Stamkos, Backes and/or Trouba but honestly I'd rather not dream about what if and keep it realistic.

Frank, you essentially put down the kids on this team down every time you say "this team is headed in the wrong direction" "our future looks bleak" "Holland needs to step down as he has not set us up good at all" you are essentially saying that you dont have faith in the kids. If you had faith, you would not be so down on the future. If you had faith in them, you should be happy with the direction like the way you always talk about Buffalo.

Larkin is a perfect example of what I mean when I say you are down on the kids, he pretty much had an identical year to Jack Eichel, and is looked at as being at the same level as him, yet you call the Sabres the "Buffalo Eichel's" and talk about Eichel as if he is a superstar but you have never once (that I have read) indicated that you believe Larkin is anything more that an okay-good player. Your exact quote above was "That doesn't mean I'm expecting them to become superstars or anything crazy like that"...... implying that the thought of Larkin becoming a superstar is "crazy". This is what I mean when I say you are down on our kids, you show zero faith in them compared to others.

As far as Tatar and Nyquist, I cant speak for other, but I never saw them as the next D & Z. That is a very elite category and those two never showed that level of play IMO. Expecting 30 goals out of them though I don't think was unrealistic. Nyquist got 28 goals in like 55 games a couple years ago, and didn't Tatar just get 29 last year? Not elite top level superstars, but with legit top line guys they can definitely be good secondary scorers. I think their drop was more so due to us losing one of the best coaches in the game, and replacing him with a rookie head coach.

For the record, I agree that Stamkos likely wont come here, but you posted the question "why would he want to come here" and I gave the "pros" (as in pro's and con's). The two pro's being that we have a strong young core, as well as a rich history which I believe means something. As far as going to the Leafs, my gut tells me he is going there, but I wouldn't want to go to the Leafs if I were him. Things have simmered down this year, but if the Leafs still suck in 3 years, Babcock and Stamkos will become the new Kessel and Pheneuf and become the scapegoats for everything. Fans and media are harsh in TO, its like people on this board and Ken Holland/Jeff Blashill, but times 100.

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Personally, I would not risk signing Stammer this off season. He has a blood clot in his arm. He is likely on anti-coagulant therapy now. You want to pay $10 million a year for a guy who is currently completely out of commission and without any clarity to his future? I don't.

The Wings need to work from the back forward. Starting with Mrazk they are good in net. They need to get rid of Jimmie and go to a cheap 2nd string goalie.

They need to try to replace Ericcson (who is a disaster) with a true top two defenseman who is young (25 years old).

They need to upgrade their power play and penalty kill coaching.

They need to move Z to the 3rd line as he can no longer effectively log first line minutes.

Those are just basic starting things they need to do.

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Green

Richards

Tootoo

Commodore

Gustavesson

Weiss

White

Conklin

Alfredsson

Modano

Hossa

Legwand

Brunner

Recent outsiders that we've had on the roster off the top of my head. We usually have some Free agents on the roster. Usually supporting players.

I said not sure he likes to do it, not that he doesn't do it. But and this is a key thing. Your list is everyone he has brought in for the last 10 years. How many are in any way shape or form are stars? 1 was Hossa. The rest were way past their primes/trying to hang on, journeymen fillers, and unknown risks. This is something that should worry/scare all RW fans. If past performance is a predictor of the future we can cross every big name UFA off of the list this summer.

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I don't see the risk with Stammer so far, that him having to retire due to that condition removes all that cap hit? Or isn't that the case? If there is any risk of having dead cap if he cannot play anymore (god beware, but..), then let it be.

I have a general question, which I haven't found on my (rather short, I admit ;)) research on the net....how is the cap system in the NHL in terms of maximum contract levels? What I mean is...I know more about NBA CBA than NHL CBA, and in the NBA, you couldn't sign your rookie coming of a 1 M last year to 10 M/Y on his next contract, because there would be a maximum he could get which would be lower. See http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16 to be specific.

If you could sign let's say Forsberg to 7 M even though he is coming from under 1 M...then that might be an even better option than Stamkos. ;)

And regarding Ericsson, buy him out...even if that carries on 1.5M of his salary, for the free 2.5M you still get someone who actually plays better than he does..

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I said not sure he likes to do it, not that he doesn't do it. But and this is a key thing. Your list is everyone he has brought in for the last 10 years. How many are in any way shape or form are stars? 1 was Hossa. The rest were way past their primes/trying to hang on, journeymen fillers, and unknown risks. This is something that should worry/scare all RW fans. If past performance is a predictor of the future we can cross every big name UFA off of the list this summer.

Saying "he doesn't like to do it" means "doesn't do it" to me. Why would his mindset have any bearing on anything? From your characterization, I can deduce that we might get Yandle, but, hey, Holland will have an internal battle about it. If you're interested in predicting whether we'll sign a UFA, then we're looking at whether we've done it in the past.

My list was not everyone from the past 10 years. Only Hossa is from that long ago. The rest were all brought in the last 5 years (Conklin was brought in twice - once a few years ago). I'm sure there are some that I didn't list as well - someone mentioned Cole, Zidlicky and Coliacovo, Huskins, were also other players from outside the organization.

Alfie, Weiss, Green, Dekeyser were all top UFAs in their years. Alfie and Weiss were past their primes, but Green and DK don't fit your categorization the UFAs we've brought in (yes, Green may be past his prime in the sense that he's not the award winner that he was, but he was 29 when we signed him and he's still a very good hockey player).

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Saying "he doesn't like to do it" means "doesn't do it" to me. Why would his mindset have any bearing on anything? From your characterization, I can deduce that we might get Yandle, but, hey, Holland will have an internal battle about it. If you're interested in predicting whether we'll sign a UFA, then we're looking at whether we've done it in the past.

My list was not everyone from the past 10 years. Only Hossa is from that long ago. The rest were all brought in the last 5 years (Conklin was brought in twice - once a few years ago). I'm sure there are some that I didn't list as well - someone mentioned Cole, Zidlicky and Coliacovo, Huskins, were also other players from outside the organization.

Alfie, Weiss, Green, Dekeyser were all top UFAs in their years. Alfie and Weiss were past their primes, but Green and DK don't fit your categorization the UFAs we've brought in (yes, Green may be past his prime in the sense that he's not the award winner that he was, but he was 29 when we signed him and he's still a very good hockey player).

Don't include trades in the UFA pile. Dekeyser was an unknown/unproven prospect-not a proven player. It remains true that for whatever the reasons Holland hasn't brought in big name proven UFA's.

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Saying "he doesn't like to do it" means "doesn't do it" to me. Why would his mindset have any bearing on anything? From your characterization, I can deduce that we might get Yandle, but, hey, Holland will have an internal battle about it. If you're interested in predicting whether we'll sign a UFA, then we're looking at whether we've done it in the past.

My list was not everyone from the past 10 years. Only Hossa is from that long ago. The rest were all brought in the last 5 years (Conklin was brought in twice - once a few years ago). I'm sure there are some that I didn't list as well - someone mentioned Cole, Zidlicky and Coliacovo, Huskins, were also other players from outside the organization.

Alfie, Weiss, Green, Dekeyser were all top UFAs in their years. Alfie and Weiss were past their primes, but Green and DK don't fit your categorization the UFAs we've brought in (yes, Green may be past his prime in the sense that he's not the award winner that he was, but he was 29 when we signed him and he's still a very good hockey player).

I remember watching TSN all day on July 1st, and they had Mike Green ranked as the #1 Free Agent. I also remember the year Weiss was signed, and he was ranked as I believe the #4 Free Agent. I think when someone has a point that they are trying to push, it doesn't matter how many examples you or I give, they will just give reasons to dismiss them. ie. "He doesn't count because he is too old, not in his prime, didnt work out, too long ago, he was unproven etc."

Holland has been plenty active when it comes to bringing in UFA's. Now, if the question was "Is Ken Holland bringing in UFA's that live up to their expectations?" that may be a different story.

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I didn't say all of those holes would be filled via trades or UFA. If any of the guys that could be moved but are not moved they will be on the roster. Youth can/will come up at some point. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the names listed (in the lines or in the could be traded list) are in fact our team next year. I am not conviced that Holland wants to or likes to bring in guys from the outside.

Don't include trades in the UFA pile. Dekeyser was an unknown/unproven prospect-not a proven player. It remains true that for whatever the reasons Holland hasn't brought in big name proven UFA's.

Why? Your original post was about Holland bringing "in guys from the outside" and you were talking about trades and UFAs.

Green was a big name proven UFA. So were Alfie and Weiss, but, yes, they were past their prime (though, we didn't know that for sure with Weiss at the time and he was only 29 or 30).

With Datsyuk's departure and if we decide to get rid of his cap hit, we could be players for Stamkos, Yandle and other. It's a different situation than regular years. Just like when Lidstrom left and we tried to land Suter, this could be a time for a bigger addition.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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I think the one thing, aside from replacing Ferschweiler, that we need to do is try to move up in the draft as far as is reasonably possible. Not into the top 5 or anything, but as high as we can. There are a ton of high end defensemen in this years draft and most have good size. None will go in the top 5. We currently draft 16th. Move up as far as possible and take the best offensive dman of the bunch. That's our biggest organizational need.we already have our future top centers and goalie, plus a ton of good wingers. We just need that future offensive guy to pair with dekeyser and we look good going forward.

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I have to say that I don't believe that Holland has suddenly gotten stupid ... He's had a hand in building some pretty good teams for us. I do hate that a lot of our higher paid players didn't step up this year (especially in the playoffs) ... Our consistency has been pretty darn terrible! But this isn't just a 2016 problem, I don't think anyone would disagree that we've been in a steady state of decline over the last few years. And I think there's plenty of blame to go around for that.

That being said, while Holland has a lot of responsibility for WHO we have, Blashill has responsibility for WHAT we're doing with it. And I think a good share of this year's failure falls back on coaching decisions and player inconsistency (and you could argue that "preparedness" and "motivation" are a coach's responsibility). When we've had good games, you can see the potential that we have as a team. It just never seemed like we were constantly clicking on all cylinders this year.

Am I alone in thinking that yeah, I wish we had some "better" players, but that some of the players we do have simply didn't show up some nights? I will say that in years past, win or lose, I liked the players on our team so much, I would've hated to see almost any of them traded. This year, not so much... I'm just anxious for some positive change.

Edited by KingBobCat

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Well, what's say we tell holland he moves up or is fired and take the Steves in Detroit. http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/4/23/11493464/report-ken-holland-declined-making-steve-yzerman-red-wings-general-manager

I don't honestly care I want a GM who either commits to a rebuild or goes all in

No more of this stupid keeping the streak alive at all costs or retooling on the fly..that plan has failed as evidenced by the steady decline of this team.

But I really hope there is a plan B if Stamkos doesn't come and of course the defense needs to be fixed it's been 4 years since Lids retired...get some help there or bring in someone who will trade the players necessary to get that top pairing guy.

There is no way this team can go into the season without a top 6 center and a much improved defense

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