Official 2018 NHL Amateur Entry Draft Discussion Thread

[Dabura 12,207]

50 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I don’t see it costing a ton at all. Montreal wants their C and doesn’t want to waste the 3rd on him. I think giving them the 6th and our 30th for 3rd would be more than adequate. They get their man and an extra pick and we get a potential super star. 

If 6 + 30 + Athanasiou can get us Zadina...I do that. I do that so hard. And I'm not even as high on Zadina as many people are.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

If 6 + 30 + Athanasiou can get us Zadina...I do that. I do that so hard. And I'm not even as high on Zadina as many people are.

You don't need to get me hard, I'd do that trade soft to be honest.

Edited June 16, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Unless something crazy happens, one of the dynamic guys (Hughes, Walhstrom, Boqvist) should still be around at 6.  If so, I take whoever is available (if all three are available prioritize who the scouts think has the best chance at elite status).  If not, I'd trade back (but still in the top ten), get some extra picks, and take whomever is left over out of the non-dynamic guys (Dobson, Bouchard, Tkachuk, Kotkaneimi). 

The only one I'm not crazy about is Tkachuk, but if the return got us another late first or early second rounder I'd take it.  There is going to be tons of talent in that area and I'd like to have as many bullets as I can in that range.

I completely agree with that strategy, we just have slightly different players we'd prefer at 6. I'd much rather move back, assuming 2-3 of the guys we want are still available, than any scenario of us moving up.

2 hours ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I don’t see it costing a ton at all. Montreal wants their C and doesn’t want to waste the 3rd on him. I think giving them the 6th and our 30th for 3rd would be more than adequate. They get their man and an extra pick and we get a potential super star. 

If by "wants their C" you mean specifically Kotkaniemi, they're not going to give it up for peanuts. Like I said, the consensus amongst scouts and GM's is that the gap between Kotkaniemi and the rest of the players in that range, including Zadina has narrowed significantly. Kotkaniemi is no longer considered much of a reach at 3. If he's not a reach at 3, he certainly wouldn't be a reach at 4 or 5. There is rumored to be a number of teams interested in him. Who's to say Ottawa or Arizona wouldn't grab him with one of their picks? If Kotkaniemi is their guy, they should take him. They're not going to sell low on the pick, even if they think they can.

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

If 6 + 30 + Athanasiou can get us Zadina...I do that. I do that so hard. And I'm not even as high on Zadina as many people are.

Uugh, I definitely wouldn't for reasons above. I don't think there's any guarantee Zadina will be better than Kotkaniemi or Wahlstrom. Why give up multiple assets for a winger that may or may not be much better than a player we can get in the position we're already in?

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

If 6 + 30 + Athanasiou can get us Zadina...I do that. I do that so hard. And I'm not even as high on Zadina as many people are.

Yea I’d prolly do that trade as well. I’m extremely high on Zadina personally. I see him as a 40 goal scorer one day. Of course that’s my opinion but every post on here is opinion lol. And AA being traded wouldn’t be the worst thing. I don’t like his work ethic. He tends to float at times and rely on his speed. 

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Uugh, I definitely wouldn't for reasons above. I don't think there's any guarantee Zadina will be better than Kotkaniemi or Wahlstrom. Why give up multiple assets for a winger that may or may not be much better than a player we can get in the position we're already in?

There's no guarantee whatsoever that Zadina will be any better than Wahlstron or Kotkaniemi, but I do feel he's the safest bet of the three. He's probably ready to step right in and have a Calder-worthy rookie season, regardless of which team gets him. I still prefer Svechnikov, but Zadina does have "lights-out goal-scorer" written all over him.

The other thing is I'm trying to think about this in the context of what we're hearing about the Wings and their actual preferences. As far as I know, not a single credible source has linked them to Wahlstrom, which leads me to believe (perhaps foolishly) that they're not all that keen on him. I like the "Kopitar 2.0" angle re: Kotkaniemi, in theory -- but I'm not entirely sold on him.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Dabura

[kipwinger 8,522]

20 hours ago, amato said:

 

This. Obviously Bouchard has the on ice skills too, but his off ice confidence when he was interviewed is his quality that sticks out most for me.. especially for how young he is. He didn't sound nervous at all and thinks he can make a difference in the NHL next year. He's full of confidence. 

I thought Bouchard was one of the older players in the draft this year? 

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I thought Bouchard was one of the older players in the draft this year? 

I know Hughes is one of the oldest. And Boqvist is one of the youngest.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I didn't know that either.

What makes you think it was Kotkaniemi? Any reason? Or just a gut feeling?

I'm hoping we take Bouchard at 6 and move up to acquire another top 10 pick to take Wahlstrom or Kotkaniemi. The Hawks and Oilers will be looking for immediate help, so unless they think whoever will be available at 8 and 10 can make the team and make an impact right away, they may be open to trading those picks...

I literally have no valid reason for believing this. I agree with you on Bouchard. The only other guy I would take if he's still there (besides Dahlin and Svech of course) is Zadina. We just need D too badly to pass up any of the high end Dmen there. And I wouldn't trade up to 3 either. The quality of player ur getting at 6 is virtually the same as what ur getting at 3. I mean unless some ridiculous scenario happens where Dahlin or Svech is there, then yes I trade up, but otherwise, keep 6, and trade 30 and 36 to move up into the 20's an draft a C.

So basically, expect Holland to do none of  this.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I literally have no valid reason for believing this. I agree with you on Bouchard. The only other guy I would take if he's still there (besides Dahlin and Svech of course) is Zadina. We just need D too badly to pass up any of the high end Dmen there. And I wouldn't trade up to 3 either. The quality of player ur getting at 6 is virtually the same as what ur getting at 3. I mean unless some ridiculous scenario happens where Dahlin or Svech is there, then yes I trade up, but otherwise, keep 6, and trade 30 and 36 to move up into the 20's an draft a C.

So basically, expect Holland to do none of  this.

If only Ken Holland had your resources, scouting abilities, GM experience and natural intuition. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I thought Bouchard was one of the older players in the draft this year? 

 

43 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I know Hughes is one of the oldest. And Boqvist is one of the youngest.

-

Brady Tkachuk (C/LW)

Boston Univ.

NCAA

09/16/1999

6'3"

196

L

-

Quinn Hughes (D)

Univ. of Michigan

NCAA

10/14/1999

5'10"

174

L

-

Evan Bouchard (D)

London Knights

OHL

10/20/1999

6'2"

192

R

-

Filip Zadina (LW)

Halifax Mooseheads

QMJHL

11/27/1999

6'1"

192

L

-

Noah Dobson (D)

Acadie-Bathurst Titan

QMJHL

01/07/2000

6'3"

179

R

-

Bode Wilde (D)

U.S. National U18 Team

USDP

01/24/2000

6'2"

196

R

-

Rasmus Kupari (C)

Kärpät

Liiga

03/15/2000

5'11"

163

R

-		Ty Smith (D)	Spokane Chiefs	WHL	03/24/2000	5'10"	170	L
-		Andrei Svechnikov (RW)	Barrie Colts	OHL	03/26/2000	6'3"	187	L

-

Rasmus Dahlin (D)

Frölunda HC

SHL

04/13/2000

6'2"

187

L

-		Barrett Hayton (C)	Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds	OHL	06/09/2000	6'1"	185	L

-

Oliver Wahlstrom (C/RW)

U.S. National U18 Team

USDP

06/13/2000

6'1"

207

R

-

Jesperi Kotkaniemi (C)

Ässät

Liiga

07/06/2000

6'2"

190

L

-

Adam Boqvist (D)

Brynäs IF J20

SuperElit

08/15/2000

5'11"

165

R

24 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If only Ken Holland had your resources, scouting abilities, GM experience and natural intuition. 

I know, right..

Edited June 17, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 6/15/2018 at 10:33 PM, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I didn't know that either.

What makes you think it was Kotkaniemi? Any reason? Or just a gut feeling?

I'm hoping we take Bouchard at 6 and move up to acquire another top 10 pick to take Wahlstrom or Kotkaniemi. The Hawks and Oilers will be looking for immediate help, so unless they think whoever will be available at 8 and 10 can make the team and make an impact right away, they may be open to trading those picks...

Any concerns about what was said in the video about Bouchards final season in the OHL being inflated because his team basically set him up to succeed, more ice time, favorable situations, etc..?

 

BTW, can someone give me another "like"? I don't like sitting at 666.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Any concerns about what was said in the video about Bouchards final season in the OHL being inflated because his team basically set him up to succeed, more ice time, favorable situations, etc...

Not a bit. That's certainly one way to look at it. The way I see it, and the reason I find that situation so impressive for Bouchard, is that London traded away 4 of their top forwards (Robert Thomas, Max Jones, Cliff Pu and Sam Miletic) for a boat load of prospects and draft picks. They didn't trade away a single defenseman. So it's not like Bouchard's minutes significantly increased, or he needed to take on a bigger role on the back end. He just needed to continue anchoring the blueline, playing huge minutes (often upwards of 30 minutes a night), continue to lead on and off the ice (he was named captain after the deadline), and continue to produce without the same offensive support.

I find it more impressive that London were rebuilding, trading off a lot of big names, but felt Bouchard was the guy they should keep around to guide the younger players. They could have gotten a huge return on Bouchard, but they elected to keep him.

Bouchard thinks the game at an elite level, is said to be one of the best passers in the entire draft (outside of Merkley), can shoot the puck a ton, logs huge minutes and plays in all situations. He's known for his ability to quarterback the power-play, but doesn't rely on the PP to pad his stats. 54 of his 87 points came at even strength.

It's been a long time since we've had an all around great two-way defenseman like Bouchard. He's definitely who I want at 6.

[Dominator2005 558]

We need size and RH players... however, with the 6 pick we needs to draft best available player (since our roster could be upgraded at any position). For the last couple of weeks Dobson seems to be better pick than Bouchard... but at the same time Hughes could be better D than Dobson and Bouchard... 

Wahlstrom should be also an option.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Dominator2005

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

21 minutes ago, Dominator2005 said:

We need size and RH players... however, with the 6 pick we needs to draft best available player (since our roster could be upgraded at any position). For the last couple of weeks Dobson seems to be better pick than Bouchard... but at the same time Hughes could be better D than Dobson and Bouchard... 

Wahlstrom should be also an option.

I’m excited because no matter what I think we get an impact player. The top 10 is pretty stacked this year. Last year’s draft I think will end up a crap shoot, although i think Rasmussen will be a win for us. But I think either way we grab someone who helps this team. The anticipation is killing me though lol. 

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Kenny is gunna surprise a lot of fans on this site come the weekend, there will be movement by the Wings , I don’t foresee any FAs coming here (Green poss) so it’ll be mostly roster player movements and pick swaps but he will be active I’m sure of it 

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

3 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

Kenny is gunna surprise a lot of fans on this site come the weekend, there will be movement by the Wings , I don’t foresee any FAs coming here (Green poss) so it’ll be mostly roster player movements and pick swaps but he will be active I’m sure of it 

I mean...he is always active kicking tires lol. But no I agree I see at least one trade by the Wings on Friday. Most likely trading up somewhere between 20-28. 

[kipwinger 8,522]

It's odd to me to see some many references to needing size.  While that may have been true at one point, it really isn't now. We're not noticeably smaller than most other teams, and we've drafted for size since Mantha.  We're actually pretty big going forward.  If anything, I'd say we need more skill. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

It's odd to me to see some many references to needing size.  While that may have been true at one point, it really isn't now. We're not noticeably smaller than most other teams, and we've drafted for size since Mantha.  We're actually pretty big going forward.  If anything, I'd say we need more skill. 

This reminds of an article I stumbled across recently:

https://theathletic.com/210035/2018/01/12/sizing-up-the-nhl-2017-18-nhl-teams-by-age-height-and-weight/

NHL average age this season (as of today): 27.1

Wings still have the oldest roster at 28.9

On the other side of things, Detroit and Ottawa are ancient by today’s league standards. Old and bad unfortunately. The Red Wings have eight players who are 30-plus and no one who’s really young beyond 21-year-old Dylan Larkin. There used to be a time that Detroit was always the oldest team and always a Cup favourite.

 

NHL average height this season: 73.1 inches (6-foot-1.1)

Wings are in the  bottom third at 72.8" (6-foot-0.8-inches)

 

NHL average weight this season: 200.7 lbs

Wings are fifth from the bottom at 197.3 lbs

 

NHL average draft position: 64th (in regards to roster players)

Wings are 3rd from the bottom at 87.9

 

The full table of results is here for anyone who is curious:

[kipwinger 8,522]

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This reminds of an article I stumbled across recently:

https://theathletic.com/210035/2018/01/12/sizing-up-the-nhl-2017-18-nhl-teams-by-age-height-and-weight/

NHL average age this season (as of today): 27.1

Wings still have the oldest roster at 28.9

On the other side of things, Detroit and Ottawa are ancient by today’s league standards. Old and bad unfortunately. The Red Wings have eight players who are 30-plus and no one who’s really young beyond 21-year-old Dylan Larkin. There used to be a time that Detroit was always the oldest team and always a Cup favourite.

 

NHL average height this season: 73.1 inches (6-foot-1.1)

Wings are in the  bottom third at 72.8" (6-foot-0.8-inches)

 

NHL average weight this season: 200.7 lbs

Wings are fifth from the bottom at 197.3 lbs

 

NHL average draft position: 64th (in regards to roster players)

Wings are 3rd from the bottom at 87.9

 

The full table of results is here for anyone who is curious:

The size and weight thing should change pretty quickly though given how big our prospects are.  Remove any three smaller forward and replace them with Rasmussen, Svech, and Smith and suddenly we've got one of the bigger forward groups I'm sure. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

17 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

The size and weight thing should change pretty quickly though given how big our prospects are.  Remove any three smaller forward and replace them with Rasmussen, Svech, and Smith and suddenly we've got one of the bigger forward groups I'm sure. 

Depends on who ur moving out. Replacing E or Wit with those guys wouldn't effect the height or weight average much. Those players would lower the average age considerably tho, which would be appropriate for a rebuilding team.

In regards to average size, TB actually has the smallest overall team in the NHL. Also, subtract Chara from Boston's roster and they become the smallest team. So you are correct in that size isn't everything. Certainly there are situations where it is an advantage, but obviously, skill/talent always trumps size. Uh oh. Did I just make this thread political?

[kipwinger 8,522]

Just now, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Depends on who ur moving out. Replacing E or Wit with those guys wouldn't effect the height or weight average much. Those players would lower the average age considerably tho, which would be appropriate for a rebuilding team.

In regards to average size, TB actually has the smallest overall team in the NHL. Also, subtract Chara from Boston's roster and they become the smallest team. So you are correct in that size isn't everything. Certainly there are situations where it is an advantage, but obviously, skill/talent always trumps size. Uh oh. Did I just make this thread political?

I mean, the guys most likely to be gone from last year are Booth, Ouellet, and Green, followed by Z and Kronwall in the coming years.  All of those guys are average or below average size for the NHL.  I think we'll get noticeably bigger despite anything that happens at this year's draft.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Bob McKenzie said on his podcast Zadina might slip out of the top 5. But mainly because C and D prospects have really stepped it up and because of team needs in the top 5.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

Bob McKenzie said on his podcast Zadina might slip out of the top 5. But mainly because C and D prospects have really stepped it up and because of team needs in the top 5.

I mentioned this in a previous post, which is a huge reason I'm saying we shouldn't trade up. Pick best player available at 6, and try to move up after that.

[amato 3,210]

The more I read/get excited about the draft, the more I hope we can manage to get another top 10 pick. Picking Zadina/Wahlstrom and Bouchard/Hughes/Dobson is sounding better and better the more I think about it. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

35 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Wasn't it Kris Draper who commented that there's a kid that the Wings staff really likes?

I wonder if this player might be listed at 7th  thru 10th, and possibly Holland moving back, and gaining additional picks to do so, and how their draft strategy would change if certain players slip down the list?

Yeah, Jesperi Kotkaniemi