Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[kipwinger 8,524]

24 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yeah maybe. I still think we need that #1D. And unless we're still bottoming out in the next year or two in drafts with D heavy top 10 options, we're going to have to find that player outside of the top 10 or in the 2nd round (Jossi/Keith style) 

Not necessarily. Outside of Hronek, whom I'm not ruling out for the top pair, Bowen Byram is a legit 1D prospect.  I'm completely fine taking him with our top pick this year and looking for more help up front in FA.  Byram, Hronek, Cholo, McIsaac, Lindstrom is a good start on a defense. 

A few other thoughts on our defense.  Hronek just put up a 40 point pace as a rookie.  He'll break 50 next year if all goes well.  And he's not a bad defensive player either.  Playing all those top pair minutes down the stretch were really good for his development, and for Blashill to gain confidence that Hronek can be trusted.  I expect BIG things from him in the next couple years.

Also, Alec Regula is probably going to be really good for Detroit in a couple years.  He's flown under the radar because McIsaac has been so good, and Regula's numbers aren't great.  But when you dig a little deeper you see that he was behind Adam Boqvist and Evan Bouchard pretty much all season long in the depth chart at London so he didn't get all those sweet PP minutes to pad his stats.  Almost all his offense came at even strength (which is actually a good thing for a depth defenseman).  Prior to Bouchard returning from his NHL stint Regula WAS getting PP time and produced.  The kid is a thoroughbred, skates like the wind, and his offense is underrated.  I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do in the AHL because I think we might have a Mattias Ekholm type guy on our hands, and I'm a huge fan of his. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by kipwinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I think you can still win without that elite 1D. If Hronek, McIsaac, Cholowski and Lindstrom all turn out to be solid 2nd pair guys, I think we'll be ok.

[gcom007 1,465]

The one area I haven’t followed as closely is goalie. How has Larsson been doing? Always tough to predict how a goalie will do, but does he look like a viable option in the next year or so?

[kipwinger 8,524]

12 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think you can still win without that elite 1D. If Hronek, McIsaac, Cholowski and Lindstrom all turn out to be solid 2nd pair guys, I think we'll be ok.

I agree.  I think I said elsewhere that the trend seems to be toward having good pairs that you deploy in particular situations and not having a 1D who plays a billion minutes a season. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Not necessarily. Outside of Hronek, whom I'm not ruling out for the top pair, Bowen Byram is a legit 1D prospect.  I'm completely fine taking him with our top pick this year and looking for more help up front in FA.  Byram, Hronek, Cholo, McIsaac, Lindstrom is a good start on a defense. 

A few other thoughts on our defense.  Hronek just put up a 40 point pace as a rookie.  He'll break 50 next year if all goes well.  And he's not a bad defensive player either.  Playing all those top pair minutes down the stretch were really good for his development, and for Blashill to gain confidence that Hronek can be trusted.  I expect BIG things from him in the next couple years.

Also, Alec Regula is probably going to be really good for Detroit in a couple years.  He's flown under the radar because McIsaac has been so good, and Regula's numbers aren't great.  But when you dig a little deeper you see that he was behind Adam Boqvist and Evan Bouchard pretty much all season long in the depth chart at London so he didn't get all those sweet PP minutes to pad his stats.  Almost all his offense came at even strength (which is actually a good thing for a depth defenseman).  Prior to Bouchard returning from his NHL stint Regula WAS getting PP time and produced.  The kid is a thoroughbred, skates like the wind, and his offense is underrated.  I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do in the AHL because I think we might have a Mattias Ekholm type guy on our hands, and I'm a huge fan of his. 

I'm not sure how much power-play time Regula has gotten in London, but I know they were using him in a net-front role earlier in the season. Probably because like you said, Bouchard and Boqvist were eating up most of the minutes on the point.

[kipwinger 8,524]

7 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

The one area I haven’t followed as closely is goalie. How has Larsson been doing? Always tough to predict how a goalie will do, but does he look like a viable option in the next year or so?

Probably needs a couple years but he looks like the real deal.  Petruzelli looks solid too.  And we took two goalies in last year's draft that were both pretty lauded.  Hence why signing Jimmy for another year was so important.  I expect Larsson starts for Grand Rapids next year, gets a little coaching and maybe a late season call up, and then competes for the Detroit job in two. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

20 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think you can still win without that elite 1D. If Hronek, McIsaac, Cholowski and Lindstrom all turn out to be solid 2nd pair guys, I think we'll be ok.

You can't, though.

Carlson

Letang

Doughty

Keith

Chara

Lidstrom

Niedermeyer

Etc.

 

All the cup winning teams have an elite 1A Defenseman.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Jonas Mahonas

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure how much power-play time Regula has gotten in London, but I know they were using him in a net-front role earlier in the season. Probably because like you said, Bouchard and Boqvist were eating up most of the minutes on the point.

The CHL doesn't post ice-time stats so I couldn't find those.  He did score a bit on the PP, but not sure if it was net front or on the point.  I know he manned the second unit until Bouchard got back from his NHL stint so there was time to pick up a few points.  But his role was significantly smaller than it would have been on most other teams either way.  Here's their even strength scoring though:

Boqvist: 37 pts

Bouchard: 28 pts

Regula: 30 pts.

 

In the NHL not everybody gets to run a powerplay.  Likely, Hronek and Cholo (or Byram if we draft him) will get those spots in Detroit.  So it's never a bad thing to have a guy on the D-core who can score regularly at even strength. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You can't, though.

Carlson

Letang

Doughty

Keith

Chara

Lidstrom

Niedermeyer

Etc.

 

All the cup winning teams have an elite 1A Defenseman.

2017 Penguins Stanley Cup D:

Schultz - Cole

Maatta - Hainsey

Daley - Dumoulin

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by The 91 of Ryans

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You can't, though.

Carlson

Letang

Doughty

Keith

Chara

Lidstrom

Niedermeyer

Etc.

 

All the cup winning teams have an elite 1A Defenseman.

Letang was hurt during the Pens cup run and didn't play.  And it was only AFTER the Caps won that people started saying Carlson was an "elite 1D".  Prior to their win the consensus around here was that he was a step below all the other guys you mentioned. 

It obviously is better to have a stud defender than not, but after watching what Vegas did last year without a single top tier defender I wonder if systems are changing enough that they're not absolutely required anymore. 

[Akakabuto 1,751]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

P.S. Kakko sucks.

Liiga is overrated desu

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

43 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Letang was hurt during the Pens cup run and didn't play.  And it was only AFTER the Caps won that people started saying Carlson was an "elite 1D".  Prior to their win the consensus around here was that he was a step below all the other guys you mentioned. 

It obviously is better to have a stud defender than not, but after watching what Vegas did last year without a single top tier defender I wonder if systems are changing enough that they're not absolutely required anymore. 

You dont need to wonder.  They are required.

[kipwinger 8,524]

55 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You dont need to wonder.  They are required.

And it's that type of deep insight that keep you relevant around here.  Thanks for the hard hitting analysis bud.

[Akakabuto 1,751]

Dorion just said that the Sens are in Phase II of rebuild and that the worst is behind them. I can’t be the only one excited for Phase III. 

Take notes, Kenny!

[LeftWinger 4,963]

I'd love to see Ericsson and Daley bought out.

I'd love to see one of Nielsen or Helm traded somewhere.

I'd love to sign Karlsson and Skinner (Nyquist secondary) on July 1.

Of course I'd love to get a top 4 pick and get one of Hughes, Cozens, Dach, Kakko.

I'm ok with signing Kronwall for a year if he wants, either way, meh. I'd rather have him than Ericsson. If we kept Daley and bought out Green that'd be ok too. As long as we make room for Karlsson and Hronek full time.

That being said, I am sure we won't be making many splashes, but that's ok, as long as the kids continue to dominate the vets and our D has Hronek on it.

Also, IMO, BOTH Cholowski and Rasmussen need to spend at least 1 year in GR.

 

edit: Honestly, if we bought out those two and traded Neilsen, add to that the LTIR of Z and Franzen, we could give Karlsson $12M, Skinner $10M and Nyquist his $5.5M he wanted.

I'm going by the rumored $85M cap next year too, so that could change a lot.  But here is what I did:

 

 

 

 

 

...this would be nice. I think if we did this, we could be a pretty solid playoff team.

Edited January 7, 2021 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,963]

NM

Edited April 9, 2019 by LeftWinger

[Dabura 12,207]

20 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd love to see Ericsson and Daley bought out.

I'd love to see one of Nielsen or Helm traded somewhere.

I'd love to sign Karlsson and Skinner (Nyquist secondary) on July 1.

Of course I'd love to get a top 4 pick and get one of Hughes, Cozens, Dach, Kakko.

I'm ok with signing Kronwall for a year if he wants, either way, meh. I'd rather have him than Ericsson. If we kept Daley and bought out Green that'd be ok too. As long as we make room for Karlsson and Hronek full time.

That being said, I am sure we won't be making many splashes, but that's ok, as long as the kids continue to dominate the vets and our D has Hronek on it.

Also, IMO, BOTH Cholowski and Rasmussen need to spend at least 1 year in GR.

 

edit: Honestly, if we bought out those two and traded Neilsen, add to that the LTIR of Z and Franzen, we could give Karlsson $12M, Skinner $10M and Nyquist his $5.5M he wanted.

I'm going by the rumored $85M cap next year too, so that could change a lot.  But here is what I did:

...this would be nice. I think if we did this, we could be a pretty solid playoff team.

If you'd asked me at the beginning of the season, I would've been all for pursuing Skinner. But now he's coming off a 40-goal season and that means he's probably going to get paid far more than I think he's worth. Weak D game, needs to be sheltered (i.e. you can't count on him to win tough matchups against the other team's top players), suffered multiple concussions... $7M x 4 is probably the biggest I'd be willing to go, and I really doubt that gets it done.

I think Karlsson only makes sense if we draft Hughes or Kakko and we truly believe we're a Karlsson away from becoming a legitimate Cup contender. And even then, I'm not sure I'd do it. The concern with Karlsson is his health, durability, longevity. His legs have logged a ridiculous number of miles, he's suffered through a number of significant lower-body injuries, and now it appears his body is starting to break down. His game is built on his elite skating and he's been able to put up the point totals he puts up largely because he's been able to log insane minutes. Is his skating going to hold up? Is he worth crazy money if his ice time decrease and his production along with it? Maybe, maybe not. I'm just saying I think very serious buyer's remorse is a very real possibility. Maybe the next lockout hands out amnesty buyouts and maybe that gives Karlsson's GM an escape route. Sort of like the whole backdiving contract thing. *shrug*

[krsmith17 7,191]

Stay. Away. From. Free. Agency...

No Karlsson. No Skinner. No overpayment.

If Kronwall wants to come back for one more season. Sure, I guess. But if that's happening, one of Daley or Ericsson need to be moved or bought out.

Let Vanek walk.

If we want to bring Witkowski back as the 13th forward / 7th defenseman, sure.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

35 minutes ago, Dabura said:

If you'd asked me at the beginning of the season, I would've been all for pursuing Skinner. But now he's coming off a 40-goal season and that means he's probably going to get paid far more than I think he's worth. Weak D game, needs to be sheltered (i.e. you can't count on him to win tough matchups against the other team's top players), suffered multiple concussions... $7M x 4 is probably the biggest I'd be willing to go, and I really doubt that gets it done.

I think Karlsson only makes sense if we draft Hughes or Kakko and we truly believe we're a Karlsson away from becoming a legitimate Cup contender. And even then, I'm not sure I'd do it. The concern with Karlsson is his health, durability, longevity. His legs have logged a ridiculous number of miles, he's suffered through a number of significant lower-body injuries, and now it appears his body is starting to break down. His game is built on his elite skating and he's been able to put up the point totals he puts up largely because he's been able to log insane minutes. Is his skating going to hold up? Is he worth crazy money if his ice time decrease and his production along with it? Maybe, maybe not. I'm just saying I think very serious buyer's remorse is a very real possibility. Maybe the next lockout hands out amnesty buyouts and maybe that gives Karlsson's GM an escape route. Sort of like the whole backdiving contract thing. *shrug*

And yet you'd squeal like a 10 year old girl if we signed him

Skinner sucks thou fo real

[Dabura 12,207]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And yet you'd squeal like a 10 year old girl if we signed him

Damn straight.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

Well the lottery screw job changes everything.  Once again...

So, I guess we forget trades, UFA's, may as well just keep the same team with the healthy vets.

I cannot sit through yet another dump-hole season just to hope for a top pick again.  Whoever we pick at 6 is not going to make the team out of camp. I am 100% convinced that E and Daley will NOT be bought out,so they'll be here, along with Green, and Kronwall will get his year (this doesn't bother me) and We'll see Hronek in GR most the season again.

I am so tired of waiting for an injury to see a more deserving player in Detroit. 

Sorry, I am just shaking my head at that lottery, I'll have to come back after a bit so I can look at it more objectively...damn.

[Superman54 91]

This is where we must hope on Kenny and Co. to the job that’s given and knock this pick outta the park. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

36 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Well the lottery screw job changes everything.  Once again...

So, I guess we forget trades, UFA's, may as well just keep the same team with the healthy vets.

I cannot sit through yet another dump-hole season just to hope for a top pick again.  Whoever we pick at 6 is not going to make the team out of camp. I am 100% convinced that E and Daley will NOT be bought out,so they'll be here, along with Green, and Kronwall will get his year (this doesn't bother me) and We'll see Hronek in GR most the season again.

I am so tired of waiting for an injury to see a more deserving player in Detroit. 

Sorry, I am just shaking my head at that lottery, I'll have to come back after a bit so I can look at it more objectively...damn.

Ummm, not to nitpick but the very definition of "lottery" precludes one from being a "screwjob". 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Ummm, not to nitpick but the very definition of "lottery" precludes one from being a "screwjob". 

A closed doors lottery where the only people there is what weasel bettman and his sidekick? And we suppose to trust them?

hardly 

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

A closed doors lottery where the only people there is what weasel bettman and his sidekick? And we suppose to trust them?

hardly 

Why would NHL owners rig a lottery against themselves?  Or did you think Gary Bettman was like the NHL dictator?

Also, it's not "closed door". Every NHL team has a representative in the room during the lottery. 

Maybe look into these things?

Edited April 10, 2019 by kipwinger