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Dabura

Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

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I guess we should be talking OEL and Karlsson in this thread instead of the 2018 one. :lol:

The question is, could we afford BOTH via UFA come July 2019. Well, right now (before our RFA re-signs THIS summer) we are showing $35M available for 2019-2020. That is BEFORE the cap raises this summer (some say upwards of $83M.) It may go up a bit more come next summer too. If we could get Larkin and Mantha re-signed (this summer) for a nice bridge deal (lets say $4M) and instead of signing average UFA fillers and just brought up some kids on ELC's, we could possibly offer OEL and Karlsson upwards of $10M per season. I am thinking that AA is dealt at this draft, although I am a big fan, I don't think Holland is going to fool around with him this summer. He has to get people sign that want nothing less than to be here and make this franchise great again. Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi, Frk... We don't have the time for AA's shenanigans this summer. He is arbitration eligible, but we may as well just deal him before he is able to go to arbitration. He'll probably get a deal that he'll hate and be disgruntled all year long. Of course still not sure if Z is going to play after next year, so we may get a nice LTIR relief there too.

 

Permanently promote Ras, Svech, Smith, Cholowski, Hronek and a young G to back up whoever is starting in 2019. That could possibly be Howard at a VERY reduced rate. I am sure Jimmy would just as well finish his career out here, and at something like $2M to $3M that wouldn't be a bad thing, especially if a young G on an ELC proves he can handle the NHL.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Bump.

Like I noted in another thread, the Wings could have a ton of cap space next summer. I expect us to go HAM for Erik Karlsson. Assuming Zetterberg is done after this year, I'd also expect us to sniff around for a centerman.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2019/ufa/

Is Karlsson a pipe dream? Prolly. But I doubt many teams are going to be in a position to offer him the kind of contract he'll be looking for ($11M+ per, using the Doughty deal as a comparable). We could be one of the few teams that could make it work.

It's early days, of course. But atm I'm liking the idea of trading a forward or two + a defense prospect for Oscar Klefbom.

Ericsson  Karlsson
Klefbom  Green
DeKeyser  Hronek

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Bump.

Like I noted in another thread, the Wings could have a ton of cap space next summer. I expect us to go HAM for Erik Karlsson. Assuming Zetterberg is done after this year, I'd also expect us to sniff around for a centerman.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2019/ufa/

Is Karlsson a pipe dream? Prolly. But I doubt many teams are going to be in a position to offer him the kind of contract he'll be looking for ($11M+ per, using the Doughty deal as a comparable). We could be one of the few teams that could make it work.

It's early days, of course. But atm I'm liking the idea of trading a forward or two + a defense prospect for Oscar Klefbom.

Ericsson  Karlsson
Klefbom  Green
DeKeyser  Hronek

too balanced. it'll never work.

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15 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Holland will sign more vets, keeping kids who are as good or better than the vets in GR because "veturn pressuns"

 

 HappyMoron.jpg

What kid is better than Green or Daley that they deserve a roster spot over either of these two recent veteran signings?

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I think what people may be forgetting about an offer sheet is that the player still has to sign it in order for it to go through. There's a zero percent chance Larkin signs an offer sheet from Bergevin, in the off chance it wouldn't be matched by Holland and he would have to leave his hometown team to play the next 7 years in the tire fire of an organization, Montreal...

However, I don't think some other GM offer sheeting Larkin would be the worst thing that could happen. Assuming it's nothing too ridiculous (it wouldn't be) and we'd match it (which we would), it may be a better contract than what Holland would offer (at least long term). All I've been hearing regarding an extension for Larkin has been short term, bridge deals (3-5 years). I'd much rather go max term with Larkin, and any offer sheet would have to be that, assuming they're serious about getting the player. As I've mentioned before, I think we should go 8 years on Larkin, but 7 years would be the next best thing.

Regardless, for good or bad, offer sheets rarely ever happen anymore, and even when they do, they don't go through. No way Bergevin offer sheets Larkin...

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6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

What kid is better than Green or Daley that they deserve a roster spot over either of these two recent veteran signings?

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

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25 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

Like I said in the other thread, if you want to complain about there being no spots for the kids to make the team, complain about not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for signing Green. Green (and Daley) will be great mentors for the kids over the next two seasons. Good signing.

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8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I said in the other thread, if you want to complain about there being no spots for the kids to make the team, complain about not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for signing Green. Green (and Daley) will be great mentors for the kids over the next two seasons. Good signing.

Nobody wants Ericsson, and Dekeyser isn't the problem.

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15 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Nobody wants Ericsson, and Dekeyser isn't the problem.

So what you're saying is Ericsson is untradeable? Not getting into that again, but yes, he absolutely can be traded. And again, if you want to blame Holland, blame him for not being able to trade away any of the bloated contracts, not for signing players that are well worth their contracts...

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11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So what you're saying is Ericsson is untradeable? Not getting into that again, but yes, he absolutely can be traded. And again, if you want to blame Holland, blame him for not being able to trade away any of the bloated contracts, not for signing players that are well worth their contracts...

 

14262502347428.png

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1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

There was an open roster spot. If Hronek or Cholowski weren't ready, why not bring back arguably your best D?

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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I don't really see what's so good about Green? He put up relatively decent numbers but he's no Kronwall in terms of work ethic and actual leadership. I don't think he's better than Kronwall defensively. I'd say Kronwall has the higher overall IQ and Green has a higher Offensive IQ. 

I think Green is a bit overrated around here. I give him credit for putting up offense and he's a great skater but a veterans can't really teach someone how to skate lol. 

On any given good team, I highly doubt Green would be a top defenseman. I would have signed him for a year at most. Glad it's not $6 million but would have preferred less than $5 million. 

I won't be surprised if he ends up on LTIR though. 

Honestly would have much rather had both Cholowski or Hronek start this year. 

Moving DK and Ericsson isn't easy and at the moment we're stuck with them but that doesn't mean you just sign another veteran and take up another spot and handicap your open spots further. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So what you're saying is Ericsson is untradeable? Not getting into that again, but yes, he absolutely can be traded. And again, if you want to blame Holland, blame him for not being able to trade away any of the bloated contracts, not for signing players that are well worth their contracts...

Agreed, we could easily trade E if we retained some salary. They guy only has 2 years left, and if we retained 25-50%, teams would give something up for him.

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

I don't really see what's so good about Green? He put up relatively decent numbers but he's no Kronwall in terms of work ethic and actual leadership. I don't think he's better than Kronwall defensively. I'd say Kronwall has the higher overall IQ and Green has a higher Offensive IQ. 

I think Green is a bit overrated around here. I give him credit for putting up offense and he's a great skater but a veterans can't really teach someone how to skate lol. 

On any given good team, I highly doubt Green would be a top defenseman. I would have signed him for a year at most. Glad it's not $6 million but would have preferred less than $5 million. 

I won't be surprised if he ends up on LTIR though. 

Honestly would have much rather had both Cholowski or Hronek start this year. 

Moving DK and Ericsson isn't easy and at the moment we're stuck with them but that doesn't mean you just sign another veteran and take up another spot and handicap your open spots further. 

I disagree. I think Green is much better than Kronwall at this stage of their respective careers. And there's much more to Green's game than just great skating. His decision making in the offensive zone is borderline elite. And the way he can quarterback a power-play is up there amongst the tops in the league. Those are things that Hronek can definitely learn from him.

No, Green wouldn't be a top defenseman on any contending teams, but why does that matter? He's a top defenseman on this team and that's why he was brought back. I think most would have preferred one year, but two years isn't bad at all, especially considering he could have gotten 3-5 on the open market. The cap hit doesn't really matter much either since we shouldn't be a cap team for the next few years. He did take a discount and would have likely gotten $6M+ in free agency.

No one's suggesting that moving a bad contract is "easy", but it is certainly doable. Every year bad contracts are moved, and Ericsson's isn't even that bad compared to some of the albatross contracts out there.

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Agreed, we could easily trade E if we retained some salary. They guy only has 2 years left, and if we retained 25-50%, teams would give something up for him.

This.

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I actually agree that Green is overrated considering the rest of the league. But on the microcosm of this team hes a god send. Soooo much better than most of the trash we have.

If youre complaining that Green is taking away a roster spot you're looney. Ericsson, Jensen, Dekeyser and starting to look like Kronwall are occupying those spots. If you are too trash to steal one of their jobs, you have no business being on this team.

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I actually agree that Green is overrated considering the rest of the league. But on the microcosm of this team hes a god send. Soooo much better than most of the trash we have.

If youre complaining that Green is taking away a roster spot you're looney. Ericsson, Jensen, Dekeyser and starting to look like Kronwall are occupying those spots. If you are too trash to steal one of their jobs, you have no business being on this team.

I agree. Regarding the bold though, if Hronek, Cholowski or Hicketts come into camp and outperform one (or all) of Ericsson, DeKeyser or Jensen, do you think the kid would or should be given the roster spot over the vet?

You may disagree (I know some do), but I do believe there still is too much of a veteran bias on this team. We're rebuilding. If a kid proves to be ready (not saying any of them are), they should be given equal opportunity as the vets. We really need to start taking full advantage of the kids on ELC's, and get more out of their prime years. IF a kid comes into camp and outperforms one of the vets, I think he should be given an opportunity to start the regular season in Detroit. I'm not convinced that will happen though...

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