Yzerman vs Fedorov. Which one was better?

[kickazz 5,459]

Someone brought it up in the other thread. Let's discuss.

[kickazz 5,459]

This is a very tough call for me, I’m still thinking about it even though I made the thread.

Edited August 7, 2018 by kickazz

[solarion 118]

While Fedorov has the edge in pure skill, Yzerman was the better all around hockey player due to the fact that he worked harder than Feds. Stevie never took a shift off, never gave up on a play...dude was tenacious as hell. I remember watching plays where 19 would get knocked down 2 - 3 times and STILL find the back of the net...you couldn't stop the guy.

Yzerman wound up with over 1.15 ppg over his long career, while Sergei "only" got .94. Though to be fair Yzerman saw more ice time and Feds was used as a defender for a portion of his career.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Pretty much agree with Jonas and Solarion. Pretty much what  I would have said

[marcaractac 3,963]

It's a hard choice to make, but just image Feds skill with Stevie's work ethic...

[LeftWinger 5,129]

I firmly believe that the problem with Fedorov "showing up" has a lot to do with his upbringing in the Soviet System. He was forced to live, eat, breathe, sleep, dream about, talk about, walk nothing but hockey in that system, so when he got his freedom to do what he wanted, whenever he wanted, and hockey was just a job, he mailed it in once in awhile because he could.  For once in his young life other things mattered and were more important than hockey 24/7/365.

If he did continue to give 110% every moment of every day, he would have likely rivaled Gretzky in his prime. Fedorov was that damn good. If ANYONE could flip a switch and change the momentum of a game, as good and as easy as Gretzky did, it was Fedorov.

I am still in awe thinking that we almost had BOTH Fedorov AND Pavel Bure on this team!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I firmly believe that the problem with Fedorov "showing up" has a lot to do with his upbringing in the Soviet System. He was forced to live, eat, breathe, sleep, dream about, talk about, walk nothing but hockey in that system, so when he got his freedom to do what he wanted, whenever he wanted, and hockey was just a job, he mailed it in once in awhile because he could.  For once in his young life other things mattered and were more important than hockey 24/7/365.

If he did continue to give 110% every moment of every day, he would have likely rivaled Gretzky in his prime. Fedorov was that damn good. If ANYONE could flip a switch and change the momentum of a game, as good and as easy as Gretzky did, it was Fedorov.

I am still in awe thinking that we almost had BOTH Fedorov AND Pavel Bure on this team!

Capitalism made Fedorov lazy??

What time line is this??

[NerveDamage 4,176]

18 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What time line is this??

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

26 minutes ago, NerveDamage said:

We can start a new timeline, a better timeline

[kickazz 5,459]

5 hours ago, solarion said:

While Fedorov has the edge in pure skill, Yzerman was the better all around hockey player due to the fact that he worked harder than Feds. Stevie never took a shift off, never gave up on a play...dude was tenacious as hell. I remember watching plays where 19 would get knocked down 2 - 3 times and STILL find the back of the net...you couldn't stop the guy.

Yzerman wound up with over 1.15 ppg over his long career, while Sergei "only" got .94. Though to be fair Yzerman saw more ice time and Feds was used as a defender for a portion of his career.

Yzerman’s prime was in a higher scoring era though. So it could be skewing the data. 

3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

It's a hard choice to make, but just image Feds skill with Stevie's work ethic...

Sidney Crosby?!

6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Good question.  Better all around hockey player has to be Fedorov.  I dont think a skill argument can be made for Yzerman.  Greater impact on the team?  This is where Stevie scores big points.  Fedorov seemed stoic due to the language and cultural differences he needed to overcome.  Yzerman was well respected for his command of the lockerrom and set an extremely high standard for dedication to winning once Bowman called him out.  I've never watched a better player than '94 Fedorov, but I've also never liked a player more than '97 Yzerman.  This is a very tough call.

Always wondered why 94 Fedorov couldn’t replicate that performance again.

Edited August 7, 2018 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 5,129]

40 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Yzerman’s prime was in a higher scoring era though. So it could be skewing the data. 

Sidney Crosby?!

Always wondered why 94 Fedorov couldn’t replicate that performance again.

Hate to insinuate it, but if Fedorov didn't have Yzerman, maybe 94 Feds would have replicated many times. Remember, 93-94 is when Yzerman went down with the neck injury and Fedorov became "The Man." Yzerman missed 22 games and Fedorov took off from there. When Yzerman returned Feds was the #1 center. Remember also, 94 was the year Bowman had Yzerman dealt to Ottawa for Yashin. Guess he figured he had his new #1 guy.

[solarion 118]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Yzerman’s prime was in a higher scoring era though. So it could be skewing the data.

I don't think that's really much of a factor, I mean they were drafted only 6 years apart. Yzerman's best season, production wise, was '88/'89 with 65g 90a 155 pts 80 games and Fed's best production was '93/'94 with 56g 64a 120pts with 82 games played. Five years, 9 goals and a whopping 36 assists separate their best seasons...and Yzerman played 2 fewer games to get there.

We really don't have to speculate about how different defenses were because obviously, these guys were teammates. Yzerman played only 58 games in '93/'94 and racked up 24g 58a 82pts. Fedorov averaged 1.46ppg in his best season and Yzerman averaged 1.41ppg the same year.

While clearly Fedorov didn't play to his potential much of the time, and could have achieved more, Yzerman is the guy you choose first in a re-draft...he simply worked harder, which more than made up for any skill difference between these two awesome hockey players.

Edit: one other thing to note. Yzerman's 2nd best regular season production was during the '92/'93 season...when he racked up 58g 79a 137pts in 84 games 1.63ppg. Sergei played only 73 games that year and produced 34g 53a 87pts = 1.19ppg.

Edited August 7, 2018 by solarion

[kylee 727]

#19 all the way

[kickazz 5,459]

@toby91_ca why Fedorov

[toby91_ca 620]

11 hours ago, kickazz said:

@toby91_ca why Fedorov

Good question....I guess it depends on how you define "better player" - I probably looked at it too much as potential and "at their best" - I think Fedorov at his best, with all his skill, would be better.  However, Yzerman had the better career in my opinion.

[solarion 118]

2 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

Yzerman had the better career in my opinion.

Not sure that's even opinion. Seems like a fact by nearly any metric. I suppose you could argue about which player was better defensively, I mean both players were great two way guys, but Sergei could absolutely fly when he turned the jets on. Also like a lot of Russian players he had a way of getting lost in coverage and generating offense in sneaky fashion...kind of like Brett Hull used to do...though in Hull's case I think he was just so dang slow that the defenders got bored covering him. lol

Better/best player to me means simply ...who would you draft 1st. I loved watching Sergei Fedorov play hockey, but in a re-draft I take Yzerman ahead of Fedorov without a second thought. His character and attitude alone ensure that he's the guy you want on your team...even if he wasn't an amazingly skilled hockey player.

Now ask yourself who do you take first...Fedorov, Yzerman, ...or the perfect human? Now that's a tough one. There I may actually take Lidstrom ahead of #19, but I'd have to think long and hard on that one. Likely my two all-time favorite hockey players.

Edited August 8, 2018 by solarion

[13dangledangle 968]

Yzerman because of his career here.   Leadership, attitude and work ethic aside Stevies best years here were something else.   Between 87 and 92 he put up some absolutely amazing numbers:

87- 50 G 52A 102P (in 64 games ?!)

88- 65G 90A 155P

89-  62G 65A 127P

90- 51G 57A 108P

91- 45G 58A 103P

92- 58G 79A 137P

 

Those stats are insane, 732 points in his best 6 "prime" seasons (and they just so happened to be all back to back).  If you took Feds best 6 seasons not back to back but overall it looks like this:

90- 31G 48A 79P

91- 32G 54A 86P

92-34G 53A 87P

93- 56G 64A 120P

95- 39G 68A 107P

02- 36G 47A 83P

 

Feds totals up to 562 points in his best 6 seasons, that's 170 points less then Stevies best 6 seasons.   Feds joined the club 3 years into Stevies 6 year tear and put up some amazing numbers too, just not nearly as crazy as what Yzerman achieved.   The fact he was through and through a class act just puts icing on the cake.  

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Yzerman pulls ahead at 66%

lol Fedorov sucks

[Dabura 12,232]

On 8/7/2018 at 4:42 PM, LeftWinger said:

If he did continue to give 110% every moment of every day, he would have likely rivaled Gretzky in his prime. Fedorov was that damn good. If ANYONE could flip a switch and change the momentum of a game, as good and as easy as Gretzky did, it was Fedorov.

I am still in awe thinking that we almost had BOTH Fedorov AND Pavel Bure on this team!

Hell, we almost had Gretzky himself!

https://thehockeywriters.com/wayne-gretzky-almost-joined-the-detroit-red-wings/

ESPN’s 30 For 30 franchise featured the trade in one of their documentaries, interviewing all parties involved and chronicling the events that led up to and consequently followed the seismic trade. In the documentary, Gretzky mentioned that he was allowed to pick his next destination and that decision ultimately came down to two teams: the Los Angeles Kings and Detroit Red Wings.

[toby91_ca 620]

10 hours ago, 13dangledangle said:

Yzerman because of his career here.   Leadership, attitude and work ethic aside Stevies best years here were something else.   Between 87 and 92 he put up some absolutely amazing numbers:

87- 50 G 52A 102P (in 64 games ?!)

88- 65G 90A 155P

89-  62G 65A 127P

90- 51G 57A 108P

91- 45G 58A 103P

92- 58G 79A 137P

 

Those stats are insane, 732 points in his best 6 "prime" seasons (and they just so happened to be all back to back).  If you took Feds best 6 seasons not back to back but overall it looks like this:

90- 31G 48A 79P

91- 32G 54A 86P

92-34G 53A 87P

93- 56G 64A 120P

95- 39G 68A 107P

02- 36G 47A 83P

 

Feds totals up to 562 points in his best 6 seasons, that's 170 points less then Stevies best 6 seasons.   Feds joined the club 3 years into Stevies 6 year tear and put up some amazing numbers too, just not nearly as crazy as what Yzerman achieved.   The fact he was through and through a class act just puts icing on the cake.  

 

The Yzerman stats above are not as great as they look when you compare to the rest of the league at the time.  Still extremely good, just not as good as you think when you are considering today's scoring totals.  As an example, those numbers looks better than Crosby's, but Crosby seems to be in the top 1-3 scorers every single year (barring injury).....that's not the case with the numbers above.  It's somewhat due to Wayne and Mario....however, he was a long way off those two most years as well....his best year at 155pts was good for 3rd and 44pts behind the leader, 13pts behind #2

[kickazz 5,459]

16 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

The Yzerman stats above are not as great as they look when you compare to the rest of the league at the time.  Still extremely good, just not as good as you think when you are considering today's scoring totals.  As an example, those numbers looks better than Crosby's, but Crosby seems to be in the top 1-3 scorers every single year (barring injury).....that's not the case with the numbers above.  It's somewhat due to Wayne and Mario....however, he was a long way off those two most years as well....his best year at 155pts was good for 3rd and 44pts behind the leader, 13pts behind #2

I’m not on a computer but curious how Fedorov’s best numbers compared to other players in those seasons.

[LeftWinger 5,129]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Hell, we almost had Gretzky himself!

https://thehockeywriters.com/wayne-gretzky-almost-joined-the-detroit-red-wings/

ESPN’s 30 For 30 franchise featured the trade in one of their documentaries, interviewing all parties involved and chronicling the events that led up to and consequently followed the seismic trade. In the documentary, Gretzky mentioned that he was allowed to pick his next destination and that decision ultimately came down to two teams: the Los Angeles Kings and Detroit Red Wings.

Yes, he also said that on Letterman the year he was traded. I'm sure it would've  cost us Yzerman for sure. I'm glad he went to LA.

[Learn2LuvIt 246]

"Better" would need to be defined further.

Feds - More talented

Stevie - Better overall impact on his team

 

[kliq 3,763]

If you want to compare stats, we really should be comparing each player in their respective primes to the rest of the league at that time.

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

If you want to compare stats, we really should be comparing each player in their respective primes to the rest of the league at that time.

During Yzerman's prime (the 7 years from 87-94) the only players to outscore him were Gretzky and Lemieux. 

Fedorov's peak scoring was from 90-96, when he was 10th. Yzerman was 7th over the same span. 4-year peak from 92-96 he was 6th, and over 3 years he got to 4th. 

Feds peak 3-year period he averaged 1.37 p/g, slightly better than Yzerman's peak 7-years (1.36, adjusted for league scoring average), but below his 3-year peak (1.44).

Scoring-wise Yzerman wins hands down, if only for longevity. In terms of complete game, Fedorov might have an edge, but it's hard to say since it's so difficult to quantify all the other stuff, particularly intangibles like "leadership".