2019 Draft

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

41 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I like Rasmussen.  Am I the only one?

Nope. He went from playing with kids to playing against the best in the world without even having filled out his frame yet. I don't know what people expect. He's gonna take a little bit longer to develop. Give the kid a break.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 minute ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nope. He went from playing with kids to playing against the best in the world without even having filled out his frame yet. I don't know what people expect. He's gonna take a little bit longer to develop. Give the kid a break.

Isn't he only 20 or 21?  I wasn't even going to judge his play till the 20-21 season.  I just like his attitude so far.  Seems very stoic and pros pro like.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Isn't he only 20 or 21?  I wasn't even going to judge his play till the 20-21 season.  I just like his attitude so far.  Seems very stoic and pros pro like.

No. He's only 19. Hence why he couldnt play in GR, only juniors. 

[TLGTrico 627]

The Rangers blew it tonight.  Bad news for tomorrow.

[kipwinger 8,527]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

(Note: I realize you're sort of playing devil's advocate, so what I'm going to say isn't me hardcore disagreeing with you.)

Hughes has played against a ton of top college teams. He actually tends to play his best hockey when he's playing against older players.

What Kakko is doing in the Liiga is incredible, but Hughes' body of work is at least equally impressive.

Hughes' style is absolutely conducive to the NHL game; he's the most shifty, elusive, effortless skater I've ever seen (think Karlsson) and his hockey sense and playmaking ability rank among the best I've ever seen (think Datsyuk). He's a weapons-grade point-producer. The only concern I have with him is the lack of "physicality" in his game. But he's good enough that I don't think it really matters, especially if you assume he's going to be a winger.

I don't think Kakko going 1st overall is completely out of the question, but I don't think he's better than or equal to Hughes. Possibly more NHL-ready, certainly bigger and more physically imposing, but not better. It's weird to me that people would have concerns about Hughes' game at a time when players like Gaudreau and Marner and DeBrincat are thriving. Then again, I get the sense the "ACKSHUALLY, Kakko is every bit as good as Hughes" narrative is coming from Canadian outlets like Sportsnet. Because controversy sells and Canadian hockey media can't help itself.

tl;dr Kakko is a top checkers players, Hughes is a chess prodigy. That being said, I'd be deliriously happy with Hughes or Kakko.

Right, but I said his style is not conducive.  Not his skill set.  We clearly both agree that his skill set is elite.  But the NHL is a WAY more structured game.  Coaches demand that you play the system and don't free wheel.  Even the best centers don't hang on to the puck and weave and bob around looking for open ice.  You have to play give and go hockey in the NHL.  You have to be in the right spots and play your systems without the puck.  Blashill talked about it all the time with Larkin, "stopping on pucks", meaning gaining the zone, dishing, and getting open again rather than hanging on to the puck and kinda dancing around waiting to make a play. Knowing when to dumb the puck in rather than try to skate around on the perimeter looking for open ice.

Hughes, more than Kakko, seems to generate a ton of his offense by hanging on to the puck and literally skating circles around the defense.  He will not be able to do that in the NHL and so he'll need to change. He won't be able to do it because if the defensemen don't kill him his coach certainly will. That was my point.  I still think that Hughes will go first, but if there's an argument to be made for Kakko it's that one. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,527]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I like Rasmussen.  Am I the only one?

I think he's going to be a ******* monster in like two years.  He's still a skinny, gangly, teenager.  Give him one or two years of legit NHL caliber offseason training and he's going to be a f*cking savage.  He already protects the puck really well, skates fine, net front skills are as advertised and his passing is underrated.  Add to that the fact that he'll be one of the most physically imposing guys in the league to play against and you've got a pretty good recipe for success.  It's certainly possible the kid is the next Martin Hanzel. But the more I watched him this season, and the more I think about how much more he's going to physically develop, the more I think we've got a potentially game changing player on our hands. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I think he's going to be a ******* monster in like two years.  He's still a skinny, gangly, teenager.  Give him one or two years of legit NHL caliber offseason training and he's going to be a f*cking savage.  He already protects the puck really well, skates fine, net front skills are as advertised and his passing is underrated.  Add to that the fact that he'll be one of the most physically imposing guys in the league to play against and you've got a pretty good recipe for success.  It's certainly possible the kid is the next Martin Hanzel. But the more I watched him this season, and the more I think about how much more he's going to physically develop, the more I think we've got a potentially game changing player on our hands. 

He really reminds me of Keith Primeau.  And that isn't a bad thing.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Right, but I said his style is not conducive.  Not his skill set.  We clearly both agree that his skill set is elite.  But the NHL is a WAY more structured game.  Coaches demand that you play the system and don't free wheel.  Even the best centers don't hang on to the puck and weave and bob around looking for open ice.  You have to play give and go hockey in the NHL.  You have to be in the right spots and play your systems without the puck.  Blashill talked about it all the time with Larkin, "stopping on pucks", meaning gaining the zone, dishing, and getting open again rather than hanging on to the puck and kinda dancing around waiting to make a play. Knowing when to dumb the puck in rather than try to skate around on the perimeter looking for open ice.

Hughes, more than Kakko, seems to generate a ton of his offense by hanging on to the puck and literally skating circles around the defense.  He will not be able to do that in the NHL and so he'll need to change. He won't be able to do it because if the defensemen don't kill him his coach certainly will. That was my point.  I still think that Hughes will go first, but if there's an argument to be made for Kakko it's that one. 

This is the silliest argument I've ever read yo.

Y'all Hughes haters be trippin' balls.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

This is the silliest argument I've ever read yo.

Y'all Hughes haters be trippin' balls.

The reaching is obvious

[Dabura 12,207]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

The reaching is obvious

They see Hughes puck possessin'. They hatin'.

[amato 3,210]

8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I like Rasmussen.  Am I the only one?

 

I like him as a prospect for sure. Hope he works on his skating/bulks up some in the off season. Not that either of those are bad, but some improvement in both seems like it'd work wonders for him. I think if he reaches his potential, he'll be a helluva player.. Especially on the power play. 

Would also like to see him go on a playoff run with the griffins, I think that'd be great for his confidence. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I like Rasmussen.  Am I the only one?

Nope. To be honest, I don't think there's many Red Wings fans that dislike Big Ras. What's not to like? Big body, only going to get bigger (bulk), that can protect the puck extremely well for a kid (still only 19 years old). Great in front of the net, extremely soft hands. I think he's better suited on the wing, than down the middle, which is fine. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a top line winger, but top six isn't out of the question. I really like what I've seen from him in a limited role this season.

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

This is the silliest argument I've ever read yo.

Y'all Hughes haters be trippin' balls.

I can see Kip's point though...Nobody is doubting the skillset - it's the 'style' of play that will likely have to change for Hughes...He's not gonna have the time, and space (literally a smaller 200X85 when compared to 200X100, and the NHL Dmen are much better players than what he's used to at the college level).

That said - I'll be thrilled if he becomes a Red Wing!.

Edited April 4, 2019 by F.Michael

[Dabura 12,207]

42 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I can see Kip's point though...Nobody is doubting the skillset - it's the 'style' of play that will likely have to change for Hughes...He's not gonna have the time, and space (literally a smaller 200X85 when compared to 200X100, and the NHL Dmen are much better players than what he's used to at the college level).

Nah, kip is a hater and his point is dumb. There's no separation between the skill set and the "style"; his skill set is such that he can and does do whatever he wants, whatever gets the job done. I don't know how someone looks at Hughes and says, "Yeah, ok, but in the NHL you have to play give-and-go hockey." If my scouts told me that I'd fire them on the spot, because I'd know immediately that they'd never seen Hughes play. "In the NHL you have to play within a system" -- mofos, do you hear yourselves right now? Sit yo' asses down, Kakko-lovers.

[Dabura 12,207]

Larkin's whole thing has always been holding the puck and skating around players. And it still is. Hughes does that and he's even better at it. And he's a much better playmaker.

I go back to Karlsson and Datsyuk. It's that kind of thing. Hughes can and will skate NHL opponents into the ground, but to suggest that he's AA (i.e. basically only has his skating and some decent skill) is the lamest of lame sauce.

[krsmith17 7,191]

26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Larkin's whole thing has always been holding the puck and skating around players. And it still is. Hughes does that and he's even better at it. And he's a much better playmaker.

I go back to Karlsson and Datsyuk. It's that kind of thing. Hughes can and will skate NHL opponents into the ground, but to suggest that he's AA (i.e. basically only has his skating and some decent skill) is the lamest of lame sauce.

This is the point I was going to make as well. A ton of players in the league are able to hold onto the puck for long periods of time. Not all players need to rely on give-and-go. The majority of the players that can rag the puck are similar stature and half the skaters as Hughes. Larkin is one example for sure, but I still say the best comparison is Patrick Kane. Hughes' game is very reminiscent of Kane, and I think he has the potential to be even better. I don't see an argument for Hughes' game not translating to the NHL. Doesn't make sense to me...

[Dabura 12,207]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

This is the point I was going to make as well. A ton of players in the league are able to hold onto the puck for long periods of time. Not all players need to rely on give-and-go. The majority of the players that can rag the puck are similar stature and half the skaters as Hughes. Larkin is one example for sure, but I still say the best comparison is Patrick Kane. Hughes' game is very reminiscent of Kane, and I think he has the potential to be even better. I don't see an argument for Hughes' game not translating to the NHL. Doesn't make sense to me...

And, just to be clear, I'm saying Hughes skates around players *and* he plays give-and-go hockey *and* he [fill in the blank with anything that involves artfully moving the puck around the ice and making plays and guiding the puck to the back of the other team's net]. Point being: "His whole thing is just skating around people, so he's in for a rude awakening" is not an actual thing.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Dabura

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

This is the point I was going to make as well. A ton of players in the league are able to hold onto the puck for long periods of time. Not all players need to rely on give-and-go. The majority of the players that can rag the puck are similar stature and half the skaters as Hughes. Larkin is one example for sure, but I still say the best comparison is Patrick Kane. Hughes' game is very reminiscent of Kane, and I think he has the potential to be even better. I don't see an argument for Hughes' game not translating to the NHL. Doesn't make sense to me...

Agreed.  And what everyone is completely FAILING to see is that the best odds have him playing alongside MacKinnon, Rantenen, Landeskog, and Barrie on the 1st pp unit.  Holy Hell.  If Colorado gets Hughes, the league could be in big trouble.  Makar and Timmons are coming up on D this year, which should give them an elite blue line to go with a good goalie and outstanding top 6.  They are also going to pick up a good player with their own draft pick.  I hate that team, but damn.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Agreed.  And what everyone is completely FAILING to see is that the best odds have him playing alongside MacKinnon, Rantenen, Landeskog, and Barrie on the 1st pp unit.  Holy Hell.  If Colorado gets Hughes, the league could be in big trouble.  Makar and Timmons are coming up on D this year, which should give them an elite blue line to go with a good goalie and outstanding top 6.  They are also going to pick up a good player with their own draft pick.  I hate that team, but damn.

Round of applause for the Senators. Way to go, guys, awesome stuff.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Round of applause for the Senators. Way to go, guys, awesome stuff.

Yah, the Senators need to be moved to the Luxemberg 2nd division.  Complete joke.

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Agreed.  And what everyone is completely FAILING to see is that the best odds have him playing alongside MacKinnon, Rantenen, Landeskog, and Barrie on the 1st pp unit.  Holy Hell.  If Colorado gets Hughes, the league could be in big trouble.  Makar and Timmons are coming up on D this year, which should give them an elite blue line to go with a good goalie and outstanding top 6.  They are also going to pick up a good player with their own draft pick.  I hate that team, but damn.

Still only an 18% chance he goes to Colorado. I'll bet on them slipping to 3rd... Hopefully...

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Still only an 18% chance he goes to Colorado. I'll bet on them slipping to 3rd... Hopefully...

Let's hope

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Let's hope

Hughes to Detroit. It's happening. Only have to wait 5 days for it to become official. Well, technically 78 days until "official", but you get the point...

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hughes to Detroit. It's happening. Only have to wait 5 days for it to become official. Well, technically 78 days until "official", but you get the point...

Man, our excitement level would skyrocket.

[kipwinger 8,527]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Nah, kip is a hater and his point is dumb. There's no separation between the skill set and the "style"; his skill set is such that he can and does do whatever he wants, whatever gets the job done. I don't know how someone looks at Hughes and says, "Yeah, ok, but in the NHL you have to play give-and-go hockey." If my scouts told me that I'd fire them on the spot, because I'd know immediately that they'd never seen Hughes play. "In the NHL you have to play within a system" -- mofos, do you hear yourselves right now? Sit yo' asses down, Kakko-lovers.

I'm not sure why what I'm saying is all that controversial.  We saw it happen with Tkachuk and Zadina last year.  By just about any objective measure Zadina is a more skilled hockey player thank Tkachuk.  Certainly the preponderance of pre-draft rankings, scouting reports, etc. thought so.  But Tkachuk is producing in the NHL while Zadina is developing in the AHL.  Why?  Because his game translated more easily to the NHL maybe? We saw it happen with Mantha, were everything came so easily to him in Juniors that he didn't learn how to play the right way.  He basically racked up points doing stuff that would never work in the NHL.  It's not unheard of. 

It's pretty obvious both Kakko and Hughes are going to be stars in the league.  I'm suggesting that if there's a reason to not take Hughes it's probably that the other future star (the ones carving up a very tough men's league) is probably closer to playing an NHL style game than the 160 lb. kid on the all-star team playing against USHL competition and college kids.  

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by kipwinger