New New Prospects Thread

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We need a #1C to add to Larkin.  Its as simple as that.  This team should be in full tank mode going forward to get Wright.

This team is too good to be a lottery team. Probably picking in the 10-15 range. In order to tank, SY would have to trade out several good players and you would have to get the remaining players and coaches to commit to losing. Not gonna happen. Nor should we be developing the kids to be losers.

2 hours ago, ely s said:

We have to keep Leddy, next years free agent market is thin(Zadorov seems like one of a few) and we have to get rid of Staal and DDK. So Leddy, Edvinsson, Oesterle + FA for the left side with McIsaac and Johansson hopefully pushing from GR. I´m totally fine with our three RHD, the combo of Seider, Hronek und Lindström is good already although they only have a combined 239 games of NHL experience and they will only get better.

I doubt Edvinsson makes the team next year. He will probably spend at least one season in GR, like Seider. But then again, I said the same about Raymond.

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We need a #1C to add to Larkin.  Its as simple as that.  This team should be in full tank mode going forward to get Wright.

I'm never quite sure if you're trolling or not, but I'll take this comment at face value. I agree we need another top center. I don't agree that tanking is the way to do it. First, tanking doesn't ensure you're going to get a top pick like Wright. Second, the last three Detroit drafts have shown that you don't need to pick 1st to get elite talent. Third, tanking DESTROYS your organizational culture. It takes a toll on your best players, ensuring they'll leave as soon as they can (Buffalo). It is HORRIBLE for young players' development (Edmonton). It drives down attendance, which drives down revenue, which makes owners less likely to sign big ticket contracts (Ottawa).

If I'm going to leave something to chance I'd MUCH rather roll the dice hoping my scouting staff finds me a mid first round gem. Based on their body of work the last few years I'd prefer that to tanking.

[ely s 457]

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I doubt Edvinsson makes the team next year. He will probably spend at least one season in GR, like Seider. But then again, I said the same about Raymond.

He´s playing on the top line in the SHL. There´s nothing to prove for him in the AHL and he´s likely not being counted on as heavily as Seider. He can start on the third pairing and adjust on the fly.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

15 hours ago, Yzerplan said:

Raymond, Seider and Edvinsson are all looking pretty un-elite ??

One elite winger and one pair of elite D does not make this team elite. If you want to win with the current core you are going to need 2 lines of solid top 6 forwards and then guys who play below their skill set. 2nd liners playing 3rd, 3rd liners playing 4th, etc. You are also going to need at least solid, above average goaltending and two rock solid D pairs with an average 3rd pair. Absolutely zero scrubs.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, mackel said:

I'm not talking about an elite 1C, but a platoon 1C to complement Larkin.  I'm pleasantly surprised with his resurgence... if we had another one of him or even a Larkin-light we'd be in good shape at C.  Then the rest of our centers could fight for 3rd and 4th line duty or spots on the wing.

Nashville gave up Seth Jones to get Ryan Johansen IIRC. I see Larkin and Johansen as comparables. The cost to get another "Larkin" is going to cost Yzerman at least one good prospect. I think the best chance is this year's draft.  Or signing a 2C that is a little bit older in free agency.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, ely s said:

He´s playing on the top line in the SHL. There´s nothing to prove for him in the AHL and he´s likely not being counted on as heavily as Seider. He can start on the third pairing and adjust on the fly.

I believe the SHL has larger ice surfaces. He hasn't played on a North American rink that I'm aware. There will certainly be some transition involved with that. Also, the game is way faster in the NHL than Sweden, and the players are bigger. It's not necessarily a direct path from the SHL to the NHL. I don't think its a slight for him to spend some time in the AHL eating big minutes and putting on some weight. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kipwinger 8,522]

I read this about Edvinsson recently. It was a translation of a Swedish article on Malik's blog (see:https://themalikreport.com/2021/11/08/roughly-translated-via-icehockeygifs-simon-edvinsson-speaks-with-rakapuckars-henrik-lehman)

"He’s been praised by [teammate] Ryan Lasch, by most experts, and when I spoke with Dan Cleary, the Detroit Red Wings’ Assistant Director of Player Development last week, the NHL veteran said this with a smile about the successful young Swede:

“Take the opportunity to enjoy him, there’s not a chance that he’ll be here for any longer than this season.”

 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

38 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Also, the game is way faster in the NHL than Sweden,

But not in the AHL.

Also I think its easier for defensemen to adjust to the smaller ice than for forwards. 

[kipwinger 8,522]

20 minutes ago, Yzerplan said:

Could just as well mean he'll be starting off in the AHL next yr.

 

The only thing in can GUARANTEE is that he will not be playing 3rd pairing minutes in the NHL.  He'll be brought to Detroit when he's ready for top-4 minutes.

 

 

Vasilevskiy spent his first post draft year between the MHL and KHL.  His second in the KHL.  His third between the AHL and NHL.  His fourth between the AHL and NHL.  And his fifth as Tampa's full-time starter.  

If Cossa follows the same path, he's not our full-time starter until the 2025-26 season. There's plenty of time to build the team correctly.  Our 22, 23 and maybe 24 1st rd picks will probably be on Cossa's first full-time starter squad.

***

4th line / 3rd pair guys I'm not going to worry about at this point.  I'm sure Steve'll have no problem finding those guys that he hasn't already.

Seider and Edvinsson gives you two elite D.  One of Johansson/Wallinder/Buium/Tuomisto/Viro/Sebrango probably gives you a third solid top-4 guy.  Might give you two.  As things are looking we may still need to add another top-4 RHD.  Tuomisto's not looking like a lock, I'm not sure Steve wants a LH (like Wallinder) playing on the right side, and I'm not a big Hronek or Lindstrom fan.

Raymond, Larkin, Vrana and Bert gives you 4 top-6 guys.  22 and 23 1st rd picks rounds that off.  Sodeblom and Tyutyayev sure look like at least 3rd line wings to me.  Maybe your 24 1st rd pick is ready to center that line?

If we just continue to draft pretty well at the top of our drafts..  there shouldn't be a lot of big trades or signings we need to make

Are you referring to Hronek as a legit top-4 D?

Yup re:Hronek

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

But not in the AHL.

Also I think its easier for defensemen to adjust to the smaller ice than for forwards. 

Less space to defend, yes. But he still needs to bulk up, I believe. And there is still a transition. If he isn't good enough to pair with Seider or Hronek in the top 4, give him big minutes in GR. Seider took a year in the AHL to be NHL ready, and he came from a mens league too. If Edvinsson makes the jump in his draft +1 year, that would be huge.

[mackel 681]

12 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

*watches replays of last night's defensive zone coverage* 

We've got time

Resurgence = finally has a star winger

Almost like some fans could see this coming.........

He had capable wingers at times last year... and was a dud... it is a resurgence.  Hopefully it lasts.

[mackel 681]

9 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nashville gave up Seth Jones to get Ryan Johansen IIRC. I see Larkin and Johansen as comparables. The cost to get another "Larkin" is going to cost Yzerman at least one good prospect. I think the best chance is this year's draft.  Or signing a 2C that is a little bit older in free agency.

True... what we need is a Buffalo/Eichel situation on a Western conference team, that wants to ship the player to the Eastern conference so Steven can pounce.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Less space to defend, yes. But he still needs to bulk up, I believe. And there is still a transition. If he isn't good enough to pair with Seider or Hronek in the top 4, give him big minutes in GR. Seider took a year in the AHL to be NHL ready, and he came from a mens league too. If Edvinsson makes the jump in his draft +1 year, that would be huge.

Just to be clear; I dont think that the AHL is a bad path to the NHL for europeans. There is definitely a transision that needs to be made in most cases. I think that Edvinsson is one of the other cases. He's just that good.You're right though, he needs to get bigger. Hopefully his mother makes him extra large portions of meatballs with cream gravy and mashed potatoes every day.

  

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

8 hours ago, mackel said:

He had capable wingers at times last year... and was a dud... it is a resurgence.  Hopefully it lasts.

Mantha is not Raymond. Neither is Beruzzi for that matter. So you're wrong. Again. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Just to T-Bag you a little more

Look, Zadina. Busting. 

 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

12 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Just to T-Bag you a little more

Look, Zadina. Busting. 

 

 

Zadina has been playing great 200' hockey.  I love his game.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

7 minutes ago, Yzerplan said:

Just out of curiosity..  what would you guys accept for the following players at the trade deadline (*I'll include my .02)

-Leddy.  Hopefully you can get more.  But I'd move him for a 3rd if you can.  Resign him in the offseason if you'd like.

-Fabbri.  Ditto.

-Hronek.  I'd accept a 3rd.  Try to hold out for a 2nd.  I'd much rather have a Viro/Sebrango/Johansson-level prospect than Hronek.

-Rasmussen.  Ditto.  Would accept a 3rd.  Try to get a 2nd.  I'm certain Yzerman could find a better 4th line C with that kind of pick (which is what Ras's ceiling is).

-Zadina.  I'd try to get a 2nd.  Not sure I'd accept less than that.  I don't like Zadina at all.  I'd much rather have an Yzerman-2nd rd-pick.  But he's got some value so you'd want to hold out

Trading Leddy, Fabbri, Hronek, Ras and Zadina for four 3rds and one 2nd would be awful imho. What can you hope to get out of that? One player that makes it to the NHL?

If we were to trade all those guys I would much rather see Stevie making hockey trades. The De La Rose into Fabbri kind of trades. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

14 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Trading Leddy, Fabbri, Hronek, Ras and Zadina for four 3rds and one 2nd would be awful imho. What can you hope to get out of that? One player that makes it to the NHL?

If we were to trade all those guys I would much rather see Stevie making hockey trades. The De La Rose into Fabbri kind of trades. 

Yep. That's about as poor as asset management can get right there. But what can you expect from a person who thinks someone creating a fake blueadams account using an uppercase i instead of an l is being hacked? 

With either of those players, unless someone is willing to overpay for them or they have no intentions of re-signing (Leddy, Fabbri), they have more value staying where they are. 

[redw1ngs 149]

I came here from hfboards because that place was becoming a wasteland and someone recommended this place but this place is no better. A lot of horrible opinions here maybe the worst ive seen.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

Trading Leddy, Fabbri, Hronek, Ras and Zadina for four 3rds and one 2nd would be awful imho. What can you hope to get out of that? One player that makes it to the NHL?

If we were to trade all those guys I would much rather see Stevie making hockey trades. The De La Rose into Fabbri kind of trades. 

For some fans, a perpetual state of rebuilding = hockey porn. 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

1 hour ago, Yzerplan said:

Tradinf FA's-to-be (Leddy and Fabbri) for 3rds and then resigning them (if you want them) is nice lotto picks for nothing.  Why the hell not?

Ras and Hronek..  you wouldn't be happy to get 3rds for them?

Zadina..  you wouldn't be happy to get a 2nd for him?

I’m not opposed to trading Leddy and Fabbri. But if that is what the return is I don’t get what the hurry is with trading Ras, Zadina and Hronek. Like Marc said; they have more value staying where they are. Under development by the Red Wings. None of them are finished players.

 

 

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

16 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

I’m not opposed to trading Leddy and Fabbri. But if that is what the return is I don’t get what the hurry is with trading Ras, Zadina and Hronek. Like Marc said; they have more value staying where they are. Under development by the Red Wings. None of them are finished players.

 

Agreed, but there is also a fine line (art form really) of dangling players to the market who look like they may have more potential upside and other teams acquiring them in hopes of getting more than the Wings have out of said player vs. keeping these guys in an attempt to get player improvement and showcasing them...when all you may do is confirm to other GM's that these players aren't very good.  Sell what you can't see vs. Sell what we have....tricky and that's what good GM's are excellent at managing.  I believe in some cases getting something for these guys now is better than continuing to develop or attempt to develop and confirming to other GM's that some of these guys aren't every night NHL'rs.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

40 minutes ago, Yzerplan said:

I didn't ask if anyone would trade them for what I would (I'd take an Yzerman 3rd rd pick over a Holland 1st rd pick any day).

I asked what YOU would accept in return for those guys.

Gotcha. 

For Leddy and Fabbri I would like 2nd round picks. Ideally multiple picks.

My demands for the other three would be too high probably. As I said, I would prefer hockey trades in those cases. What I’m hoping for is that one of them turns into a Mantha level player. To get what we got for him in the future is better than any possible number of 2nds and 3rds we would get for all three now. It’s worth betting on that imo. 
 

 

33 minutes ago, Learn2LuvIt said:

Agreed, but there is also a fine line (art form really) of dangling players to the market who look like they may have more potential upside and other teams acquiring them in hopes of getting more than the Wings have out of said player vs. keeping these guys in an attempt to get player improvement and showcasing them...when all you may do is confirm to other GM's that these players aren't very good.  Sell what you can't see vs. Sell what we have....tricky and that's what good GM's are excellent at managing.  I believe in some cases getting something for these guys now is better than continuing to develop or attempt to develop and confirming to other GM's that some of these guys aren't every night NHL'rs.

True even though I think they all have proven already to be atleast every night NHL’rs. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Akakabuto

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, Yzerplan said:

Just out of curiosity..  what would you guys accept for the following players at the trade deadline (*I'll include my .02)

-Leddy.  Hopefully you can get more.  But I'd move him for a 3rd if you can.  Resign him in the offseason if you'd like.

-Fabbri.  Ditto.

-Hronek.  I'd accept a 3rd.  Try to hold out for a 2nd.  I'd much rather have a Viro/Sebrango/Johansson-level prospect than Hronek.

-Rasmussen.  Ditto.  Would accept a 3rd.  Try to get a 2nd.  I'm certain Yzerman could find a better 4th line C with that kind of pick (which is what Ras's ceiling is).

-Zadina.  I'd try to get a 2nd.  Not sure I'd accept less than that.  I don't like Zadina at all.  I'd much rather have an Yzerman-2nd rd-pick.  But he's got some value so you'd want to hold out

Leddy will get us a 2nd and a third.  MAYBE a first if a last shot cup contender (Pittsburgh, St. Louis, etc.) has a bad need due to injury.

 

Fabbri is playing good hockey, has a good contract, is versatile, and likes Detroit.  Zero reason to trade, but he could bring back a 2nd at a minimum.

 

Hronek, Rasmussen, and Zadina are all <23 yo and have all looked good this season.  Zero reason to trade any of these players, but the ask is a minimum 1st rounder.  

 

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Yzerman isnt trading any young talent.