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#2190260 Babcock "pissed off" about Burns-to-SJ

Posted by Buppy on 27 June 2011 - 02:20 AM

funny really... Thats all that anyone saw.....most of that was about picks and being an agressive GM and that is all anyone saw.

Burns (in my opinion) was just the final shoe to drop that got Babs angry.. seeing Carter to CLB for rights to a RFA and a 1st and 3rd being a trade we could of made as well.

My focus was on making the team better.....via trade...as it has been said we would do. I realize the season has not started yet....and Its a long season once it starts...
And I guess San Jose doesnt covet their young talent like the Wings do. I am with Babs I am upset we didnt get him... dont ask me who to trade....I never once dropped names like some of you did. your asking me when your all telling me " I am a idiot..." and A furious fan because we didnt get a good player for nothing... Whatever folks...

I also realize that FA starts on Friday. and we have money.... should get a lot of guys. But the question is...... Will we? I reserve the rights to have doubts... But Ill wait till after the holiday weekend.

Being upset that we didn't get Burns (or anyone else), and even more upset that SJ did is one thing. Blaming it on Kenny as if he had complete control of the situation, especially when you have no idea what Kenny did or didn't do, is another. You seem to be under the assumption that we can do whatever we want.

Honestly, you just sound bored. Like you want something to happen just for sake of something happening. Being aggressive doesn't make a team better; being right does. Philly's always been pretty aggressive...where's it gotten them? You can't make moves just to be doing something, and you can't make bad moves just because it seems like a good idea now. Even if Kenny made all the moves you want, it doesn't guarantee a Cup. And if we don't win the Cup, criticizing the moves as failures like people did with Hossa. Even in the best case scenario, we win the Cup, it doesn't end there. Kenny would just have to do it all over again next year. It's like for some people he has to be perfect in order to be considered adequate.

If you look at the deals that were actually made, we would have had to sell the farm to match them. We don't have a young goal scorer on the roster, or a prospect as highly rated as Coyle. We don't have a 21 year-old 50-point scorer, or one of the highest rated prospects (top rated by HF). The #8 overall was worth more than all our picks this year put together. The only way for us to match those deals would be to add more prospects and picks. Some teams wouldn't even want that. Trades aren't like buying something at a store where you offer up the right sum value and the other team automatically accepts. The actual currency matters; some teams would rather have a couple shiny quarters than handful of nickels.

Even if they would, we still have to consider whether it's the right move for us long-term. We're heading into a transition period. Nick, Pav, Hank, Mule, Bert, Homer, Stuart, Kronwall...all either aging or on expiring contracts. Trades could fill a couple holes, but not all of them. Free agency can help too. But you can't build a team that way. We give up all our prospects to fill a couple holes with stars and star salaries, we're left with no way to fill the other holes. In the cap era, you need good, cheap, prospects to round out your team. San Jose has Couture, so Setoguchi became expendable. They're tighter to the cap, so they have fewer options, so for them it makes sense to risk the future to better their odds for a Cup now.

We, on the other hand, could potentially sign three of the top defenseman available. For us, giving up prospects for him makes much less sense. With Carter or Richards we'd have another long-term contract to worry about, maybe a risk we don't want even it if we could have gotten one of them.

We were good enough to compete for the Cup last year, as we have been every single year Holland has been GM. We really only have one hole at the moment, and a lot of cap room to fill that and try to get better...without giving up what few future assets we have.

Trades are fun to talk about and there's some I'd make if I could. But you can't get pissed about something you know nothing about. Speculate all you like, but you don't actually know if any given trade would be accepted. No matter how good it seems to you, unless you've spoken with the GM on the other side you can't say it's possible with the certainty you need in order to justify criticizng Kenny. At least have the respect to save your criticism until you see an offer he turned down or he makes a move you don't like.

#2189652 Babcock "pissed off" about Burns-to-SJ

Posted by Buppy on 25 June 2011 - 12:13 PM

One, the article doesn't say Babs is pissed at Kenny.

You're all just assuming Kenny didn't make an offer, as if the hockey world revolves around us and every team looking to deal has to come to us for permission. For all we know Kenny did make an offer and was turned down, or Minny really liked SJs offer and Kenny never had a chance.

I'm also disappointed that we didn't get Burns. I'm surprised the price was that low, and believe we could have offered something comparable. But I'm not going to get pissed at someone who's done so much for this team even if it comes out that he wasn't interested in Burns.

There are reasons why Burns wouldn't be as attractive to us as he was to SJ.

The Sharks also needed a top 4 defenseman. They don't have the cap space we do so their FA prospects aren't as good. Burns gives them a stud at a cheap price. They have the rest of their top 4 signed beyond this year; we already have 3 top 4 defenseman in their last year. Setoguchi was their 7th best forward; if we had to give up Flip or Franzen it'd be our 3rd/4th best, and our top 6 was already weaker than SJ's.

If I hear that Minny asked us for Hudler and Emmerton and we turned it down, I'd be pissed. But if it would have been Flip and Nyquist, even though I'd still do it, I could at least understand. Burns is better than any FA this year, but he's not a Norris candidate.

#2188658 Cap is official 64.3 Million.

Posted by Buppy on 23 June 2011 - 10:53 PM

if u read the post i said trade kindl. and ya, smith would have to make the team, but i think itd be a great opportunity for lids to mentor him, and pairing him with a safe solid guy like stuart would be good for his development. why the hell would kenny not make a run at richards? its his job to make the team better. we have the cap space to sign 2 top dmen and richards, why not? who were you going to spend it on? theres a chance richards would be interested in a move to a team like detroit, not the biggest payday available... do you see a gaping weakness in the roster i proposed other than perhaps smith? theres money to sign a UFA at 2mill if you remove smith. its my "dream roster" so ya, its my opinion. not everyone has to like it.

The 'weakness' is that the roster relies on an unrealistic trade for Burns.

Then there's about $8M is raises due the following year, essentially forcing Nick into retirement, and even after that if you lose Jagr, Homer, and Bert you're left with a hole in the top 6. Maybe if we knew the cap would go up another $3-5M...

#2188608 Bettman Re-Alignment Proposal

Posted by Buppy on 23 June 2011 - 08:52 PM

Bettman's just teasing us. He can say he's moving us East to gain our trust, then he'll reveal the rest of his plan:

Move all the other West teams to the East, and all the East teams to the West, then relocate the Prime Meridian to Central Asia, thus placing all of the US west of Pittsburgh in the Eastern hemisphere, to give some logic to the whole thing.

#2187463 July 1st UFA Wish List

Posted by Buppy on 21 June 2011 - 09:15 AM

The cap doesn't work that way. The cap hit is the player's salary prorated to how much of the season has already gone by. If we had only $200K cap space, then the team would have no way of calling up anyone from the AHL throughout most of the season (unless a player went on LTIR, and that means losing a player for ten games and 24 calendar days). This cap mechanic is why the Devils ended up playing with ten forwards in some early games last season while roster players (i.e. Rolston) were injured: they were too close to the cap.

The only way your logic would succeed were if Smith or Tatar to be called up late in the season.

I'm aware of how the cap works. I'm also aware that Smith and Tatar both make under $900K in the NHL. Thus we would need only 5 days to pass without calling anyone up before we could call one of them up for one day. And for every 5 days without a call up we could have one of those guys for a day.

Sure, there's some risk being that close. But it's also a 23 man roster, so we'd need 4 skaters (or a goalie) injured before we even need a call-up. And honestly, what would it really matter if we did have to play a few games here and there with a short roster. Really no different than someone getting hurt during a game.

So, small risk of being slightly handicapped for a meaningless game or 3 and a better roster while healthy. I'll take that.

#2186766 Changes in the offseason

Posted by Buppy on 18 June 2011 - 03:17 PM

My short list of UFA defensemen, not counting ours. I'd like Nick back of course, and let Ericsson and Salei walk. That leaves three spots.

Name	        Age	Ht 	Wt 	S 	GP	G	A	P	+/-	PIM	H	B	EST	SHT	PPT	TOI	Cap
Alberts 	29	77	218	L	42	1	6	7	0	41	113	49	13.48	1.55	0.1	15.15	$1,050,000
Babchuk 	27	77	212	R	82	11	24	35	14	32	19	156	13.26	0.5	2.56	16.34	$1,400,000
Bieksa  	30	73	198	R	66	6	16	22	32	73	104	93	18.07	2.67	1.72	22.47	$3,750,000
Brewer  	32	75	220	L	76	9	7	16	6	81	145	120	18.31	3.12	0.59	22.04	$4,250,000
Ehrhoff 	28	74	203	L	79	14	36	50	19	52	54	108	18.28	2.13	3.55	23.98	$3,100,000
Eminger 	27	74	203	R	65	2	4	6	-5	22	143	103	14.2	1.33	0.3	15.85	$1,125,000
Greene  	28	71	190	L	82	4	19	23	-23	22	49	157	18.75	2.32	1.27	22.35	$737,500
Hejda   	33	76	237	L	77	5	15	20	-6	28	152	158	18.12	2.83	0.13	21.12	$2,000,000
Mara    	31	76	211	L	53	1	5	6	1	88	88	85	15.01	2.36	0.88	18.27	$750,000
Montador 	31	72	207	R	73	5	21	26	16	83	86	138	17.27	2.07	0.37	19.72	$1,550,000
O'Brien 	27	75	230	L	80	2	7	9	1	83	164	80	14.2	2.83	0.07	17.10	$1,600,000
Pitkanen 	27	75	210	L	72	5	30	35	-2	60	66	130	19.73	1.15	4.12	25.02	$4,000,000
Vandermeer 	31	73	214	L	62	2	12	14	-15	74	122	78	15.65	2.07	0.45	18.20	$2,300,000
White   	27	70	200	R	78	4	22	26	3	26	59	144	16.73	1.08	2.16	19.98	$2,999,995
Wisniewski 	27	71	208	R	75	10	41	51	-14	38	108	119	17.47	0.99	4.46	22.93	$3,250,000

I'd like two preferably RH shots that can play the PP, and at least one solid PKer who can block shots and hit. I'd want Kindl to at least have a shot at a regular spot in the lineup. For future considerations, I'd like to see deals that leave room to add Smith next year, while also keeping Kronwall and Stuart, and go after someone like Burns or Suter if Nick retires. Few, if any, of these guys would be interested in one year deals, but we could always look for a trade later.

Wisniewski and Bieksa would fill our needs perfectly, and we could fill the third spot with anyone. Might not fit the cap though, and I have doubts that Bieksa will make it to July 1st. I think Hejda would be a great addition too, and maybe better value than some of the more popular guys.

Anyways, figured some might like the stats for handy comparison. I can add other players to it, if requested.

#2184576 Mike Modano

Posted by Buppy on 11 June 2011 - 02:22 PM

God, what a bunch of *******.

He's 41. He's just being honest. Obviously still has the desire to play, but is uncertain if he really wants everything that goes with it and he's willing to accept retirement. Essentially the same things Lidstrom has been saying the past two years.

You're just pissy because things didn't go well here.

#2184572 SCF: Boston Bruins vs. Vancouver Canucks

Posted by Buppy on 11 June 2011 - 01:57 PM

Didn't seem like trash talking to me. 7uongo readily admits that because of Thomas' style that he is adept at making saves that he himself could not make, but the opposite is the same. If you stay in your net (Luongo), those saves aren't too difficult to make. Seems like a decent analysis.

I think his choice of wording and his manner made it seem like a dig. Regardless, still funny coming from a guy who let in more goals in one game than Thomas has all series.

I'm really hoping Boston can pull the upset. Not because I like Boston or dislike Vancouver. I just think Boston fans are less likely to spend the summer on here trying to convince us how great they are like Pittsburgh/Chicago fans did.

#2184243 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by Buppy on 09 June 2011 - 09:38 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread, something that may be overlooked is Laperriere's status. He's on a 35+ deal, LTIR'd for all of last year, and last word was basically that playing again could be life threatening. He has a cap hit of $1.16 that the Flyers may be stuck with.

If that happens, the cap goes up to $63M, they sign Bryz for $6M, and dump Versteeg, Carle, and both of their other goalies they'd have $7.85M to sign an entire 3rd line + 4th line forward + 3rd pair D + backup goalie + 1-3 depth players. It's a tight fit.

Maybe they think having say Hudler + Leino for the same price as Carter + a minimum wage plug would be better. Maybe add a cheap but attractive prospect like Tatar who could either fill a third line role or be sent to the AHL, and a cheap defenseman with some upside...

Hudler, Tatar, Kindl, 1st, + 3rd (plus maybe Emmerton or Andersson) for Carter and Carle. I think it makes both teams better (though I don't know what prospects Philly already has to fill holes cheaply, so maybe not).

Ville Leino ($3.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($1.250m)
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Zenon Konopka ($0.750m) / Darroll Powe ($0.950m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)

Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Sean O'Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

Ilya Bryzgalov ($6.000m) / Brian Boucher ($0.950m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,673,928; BONUSES: $1,110,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $326,072


Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Drew Miller ($0.850m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)
Kris Draper ($0.750m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Jay Harrison ($1.500m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Derek Meech ($0.550m)

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,160,605; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $839,395

#2182728 Changes in the offseason

Posted by Buppy on 05 June 2011 - 11:47 AM

Interest in richards

Ha, LaBrun. "...Wings might be interested in Richards, but only on a short-term, cap-friendly deal..."

...also rumored that the Pope is Catholic.

#2182681 Hudler's Future

Posted by Buppy on 05 June 2011 - 04:00 AM

Well, if we divide it exactly in half it divides between January 7th and 8th. This places Hudler and Franzen with the following second-half stats:

Franzen 36 gp, 11g-12a-23pt
Hudler 37 gp, 7g-19a-26pt

So offensively, Hudler's second half was better. As for my comments about Franzen? In the last 32 games of the season, Franzen scored 2 goals. Hudler scored six in that time frame.

If I had the time to waste (maybe someone here does) we could go through and pick apart box scores to figure out which of Franzen's 55 points and Hudler's 37 were influenced by Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

So... the difference between amazing and terrible is 3 points. Yeah. I guess I shouldn't have estimated the 2nd half as 'from January on'; cheated poor, poor, abused little Hudler out of one entire point to his advantage. That makes all the difference in the world. Completely invalidates my point that you're judging the two players by different standards. Clearly, a two point difference isn't enough to say one player was amazing and one player terrible. But three points. My God, such a monumental disparity. 6 goals to 2 in the last 32 games. Well, obviously Franzen should be shot and Hudler elevated to sainthood. I mean, come on. Hudler scoring at nearly a 16 goal pace. Such scorching numbers are a great reason to displace a better all-around player with a career goals/game nearly twice as high.

Oh, and in the last 33 games of the season, Franzen scored 7 goals to Hudler's 6. And in the first 49: 21-4

It's not a secret that Franzen gets more ice time, and more time with better linemates. What you don't seem to grasp is that Franzen deserves it more. So do Filppula, Cleary, Bert, and Homer. They are all either better players or at least better suited to the role needed, which isn't always just offense.

So what if poor little Hudler's stats suffer. The team is better for it.

#2182674 Hudler's Future

Posted by Buppy on 05 June 2011 - 01:55 AM

Franzen returned to the lineup against Anaheim. That game and the next game (the SJ game you mention) the HDC line played together sporadically as well as Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom seeing a good amount of ice. Marleau's goal that made it 3-1 was scored with the Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom line out.

And the thing is... you say "Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank." No he didn't. Filppula was a common linemate, Franzen and Cleary occassionally, and Abdelkader, Miller, and Eaves all too often. I have never said Hudler is a victim. But I will again use Franzen as an example. People use the fact that Franzen whips out amazing playoff performances to justify his negatives. What about Hudler this season? He put up a season that was, on the whole, second-line worthy. He did it by pulling out an amazing second half that LGW simply refuses to acknowledge. So what do you say? Is the ability to do something enough, even if you don't do it? The Franzen example says yes. The Hudler example says no. Pick one and make a decision.

Datsyuk was out several games at the end of March, and Franzen missed a few as well. In that time, Hudler spent plenty of time with Hank.

You may not come out and say he's a victim, but your constant whining about his lack of ice time and the poor quality of his linemates says it for you. Even in this post you're whining about LGW not hating Franzen as much as Hudler.

Here's a fact for you. Franzen had a pretty crappy year, hardly any goals the last two months of the season. And he still outscored Hudler by 18 goals. He scored just as many points as Hudler from February on. And he's better in other areas. Add that to his previous playoff performances and you're damn right it justifies his negatives. He's a far better player than Hudler and far more deserving of premium ice time and linemates.

You blamed Hudler's first half on Modano. Now you're blaming Franzen for kicking Hudler out of the top 6. Every single thing you sayabout him is about some great disservice being done to him either in how he's treated on the ice or how he's perceived by fans. The funny thing is you actually believe that Hudler was 'amazing' the second half of the season and Franzen was 'terrible', when Hudler scored 2 more points.

Like I said previously, it's not about Hudler. Not everyone can play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The guys that played with them more than Hudler, deserved it more than Hudler.

#2182551 Hudler's Future

Posted by Buppy on 04 June 2011 - 01:30 PM

Babcock suddenly dumping Hudler, who had the team's hottest scorer in February, to the fourth line for the last couple weeks because Franzen couldn't do anything offensively is not a matter of Hudler playing poorly. It's a matter of "f***, we 'need' Franzen to be in playoff mode." And it never happened. Hudler outplayed Franzen even after he was taken off of Datsyuk's wing and Franzen was put back there. And in the playoffs. Franzen was terrible for the last few months of the season including playoffs.

Cool story, but not actually what happened.

Fact is, the Wings lost a couple games, with Huds-Pav-Cleary not scoring (and a combined -4 against SJ) so the lines got juggled, just like every other 'hot' line we've had got broken up. The next game Hudler played with Flip and Franzen. For pretty much the rest of the season a lot of people were juggled around. Hudler spent plenty of time with Flip, Hank, Cleary and plenty of time with lesser players.

There's no conspiracy by the man to keep Hudler down. The Wings' goal is to win, not maximize Hudler's scoring stats. Hudler doesn't get the minutes some other players get because he doesn't deserve them as much. We have a lot of good players. A lot deserve more minutes and/or a better role than they get. But there's only so many minutes and so many spots. Hudler was 8th in ESTOI, just barely behind Homer. The 6 guys significantly above him all bring much more to the team, with the possible exception of Bert. Hudler isn't a victim.

#2182457 Changes in the offseason

Posted by Buppy on 03 June 2011 - 09:19 PM

I just don't think Wiz will take what we would offer... he's most likely going to get a big payday and I don't want the Wings overpaying for him (anything over 4/4.5), so unless he takes less to come home, I don't see the likelihood of him coming here very high...

I think free agency this year will be a lot more like last year than previous years with Bouwmeester and Campbell. I don't think there's a big "prize" like that, where everyone is bidding. Bieksa gets a lot of talk right now, but I think that will settle down.

Not necessarily directed at you, but I don't think the Wings are as stingy as some people seem to believe. We've been cap strapped the past couple summers but we're not now. History has shown that we will spend when we can. We don't need to bargain hunt and we don't need to try to dictate the market. I think Holland is too good to get frozen out of all the good free agents because 'we' think players are worth $1-2M less than what the market says they are.

With the cap going up as fast as it has been, you have to pay more for good free agents than you did two years ago. You can't give raises to playres who already have contracts, saving too much is a waste, and you can only have 23 players. That means the best way to spend the extra money is by drawing free agents.

I think you're pretty close on Wis's value (I'd say $4.5-5). We have a lot of money, more than any other contender and we're maybe the most respected organization in the league, and we really only have one major hole to fill. Shouldn't be any reason to think we aren't the front runner for at least one of the top available defensemen. Since Wis seems like both the best fit and pretty likely to see July 1st, I think there's a very good chance. Not to say that he (or anyone else) is a lock, but a lot of people seem really pessimistic when it comes to all the good FAs this year.

#2178865 Kronwall's New Role?

Posted by Buppy on 23 May 2011 - 11:48 PM

So with Rafalski seemingly retiring, and Lidstrom possibly retiring, do you guys see Kronwall as ever being the top defenseman on the Wings? Or do you think Holland will pursue someone else to be top dog, whether it be Weber or Doughty or someone else? Obviously, sometime in the near future, both Lidstrom and Rafalski will be gone, so it'll be interesting to see what happens with Kronwall and whether his role expands.

I'm not entirely sure that the top brass is willing to make him number 1 at any point in the future. He has played well in spurts, but has looked average too frequently at other stretches in his career. To be the top defenseman, you have to bring it every night, and I've never seen that from him over the course of a season.

I still think he's a great second pairing defenseman, who can be a solid number 2 D-man on the team. But likely not top dog.

Weber/Doughty would incredibly unlikely. I doubt Kronwall will ever be a dominant player or Norris candidate. All-star, maybe. I can see Kronwall as a #1 here, just with a very strong #2-6 behind him to lighten the load. It's the only realistic way to replace Nick.