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I know it won't be retired but just sad to see someone other than DMAC wearing #25. esteef

15 minutes of community service seems a pretty light punishment doesn't it?

This honouring Probert stuff has really gotta stop. The guy finished his career with a different team, and known as an enforcer first and foremost (I know he had some points too). I know its unfortunate that he passed away earlier then he should've but its not like the Vladdy situation where he was on the team when it happened. I love Probie and everything he did for this team but really his number does not deserve to be taken out of circulation or anything. A jersey patch or number on the helmets maybe nut not honouring his number

So how are they going to be honoring Probert? I know 24 won't be retired but feels odd not to take it out of circulation at least this year.

I don't care if Bettman likes it or not, players are playing NHL games anyways and are under threat of getting injured. Fans would overwhelmingly agree they want to see their country's star players, fans of both the Olympics and NHL hockey. So Bettman can cram it up his ass, quit whining, and make a deal with the IIHF.

Its funny I remember when Datsyuk first started playing for the Wings. I was just a teenager living with my parents never had the internet and only got Wings game that was broadcasted on national tv. I seen him and Zetterberg playing on the third and fourth line and couldn't believe how good they were. I found myself just watching and waiting for them to come on the ice because it seemed like something amazing was always about to happen when they were on the out. I remember watching the games with my mom and telling her about these two player and how good they were. This was well before they became they became the superstars they are now. I had the same opinion of Hudler. Seen him playing on the fourth line and it just always seemed like something incredible might happen. I think its going to be a break out season for Hudler and I would be really surprised to seem him on the third line all season. I think he will be on the second line by december. It would also be fun to think of Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Hudler all on one line if they all had chemistry together. That is alot of skill on one line probably be hands down the best line in the league. How would you defend against that or even get a chance to touch the puck. I remember watching Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the 08 playoffs against Colorado and they just took over just imagine another player like that on that line. Holmstrom is the weak spot on the line he lacks the skill to keep up with them two. Just think it would be something to watch three incredibly skilled players on my line. I seriously doubt we will ever see Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hudler on one line but it would be really cool if they did.

If you are comparing players to Dats, I think that most would look like power forwards. Dats has some of the best hands in the game today, and most players have to use their body more when carrying the puck. I don't think you will get much (if any) support for your claim that Z is a power forward. I don't see how he fits even your definition of a power forward. The rest of your original list looks alright. I don't know if Homer can be considered a power forward though. He certainly uses his size in the zone, but his puck-handling is sub-par to the point where is isn't a substantial threat when rushing the puck. In response to the enforcer slappies comment, please see my last post in this thread. It is apparent that your knowledge of fighting in the NHL is severely flawed. If you're going to argue playing styles (which is a heated subject on this forum), please get your facts correct.

LOL. Why would PIMs have anything to do with being a power forward? Power forward is a player who plays physically to create offense. PIMs are only evidence of taking penalties; you get penalties when you're too slow and need to hook for example. Fights are not needed either. Zetterberg isn't a power forward. Nash is. Nash mostly uses his size and physical game to create offense. Zetterberg is more of a skill-guy. I wouldn't call Steve Downie a power forward though, yet. You still need to be able to get more than 50 points at least in this league to be called one.

The way I look at it now is there are 2 types of powerforwards, the traditional powerforward and the new age power forward. Guys like Franzen could be counted as new age power forwards. Basically they use their body and size to protect the puck, they hit but not all that often and they don't fight. Not all that rare. The traditional type is Neely, Lindros, Shanny, Gordie etc. They'll beat you and beat you up. During the time that these guys played, Franzen would not be considered a power forward, he would more likely be considered a waste of his size. He would still be good but not a power forward. Traditional guys would fight, score and hit like trucks. and really eva jokinen is more of a power forward then Kevin Stevens? Well Stevens 54 goal, 123 point and 254 pims in a single season beg to differ. Say what you want about him playing with Mario but Mario wasn't the one racking up those pims. Olli has one season of 100+ pims. Stevens is a textbook power forward. I read your posts and anymore I really don't know if youre serious and just know nothing about hockey, you are having a good laugh cause youre a troll, or if you were dropped a lot as a baby? Zetterberg doesn't even come close to being a power forward, some people I tell ya...

Why don't you just google "Red Wings center ice Hockeytown Logo"?

Maybe he should claim to be an "UNDOCUMENTED LABORER." Then he can commit whatever variety of heinous offenses he feels are appropriate (assault, rape, murder, drug-running, kidnapping, weapons violations, trespassing, etc.) and the oh-so-sensitives in L.A., New York, and Washington D.C. will come flocking to his aid, pointing out that his DUI was simply the results of the mean-spiritedness of those bad Arizona citizens!

Let's hope that Tomas Tatar wears #21 better than its previous owner.

Hey, I consider players based on more than stats I just think that a lot of players are either highly over-rated or under-rated compared to what the numbers say. As far as the top ten Russian NHL players ever? 1. Sergei Fedorov. This is pretty clear. From early in his career (Hart trophy in fourth season at age 24) until his mid 30s, he was one of the league's top offensive centers. And for years beyond that he was still considered one of the league's elite centers. He was, for basically his entire career (finished second in Selke voting in 92 at age 22 and won in 94 at age 24) considered one of the league's elite defensive forwards, and one of the league's best two-way forwards. He was one of the league's best playmakers, and possessed a powerful and accurate shot, one of the most impressive combinations of those two elements I've ever seen. Fedorov was also incredibly versatile, capable of playing any position at a high level. 2. Alexander Ovechkin. While still very young, Ovechkin is deserving of this rank. I rank him as one of my ten best left wingers ever, and he is making a very strong case for inclusion in the top five. Even since his rookie year he has been one of the league's elite scorers, a powerful physical player and quick skater. While he could improve his defensive play, it is not the deficiency often seen from players with the kind of goal and point scoring abilities he has displayed. 3. Sergei Zubov. An excellent all-around defenseman who has performed at a high level since entering the league in 93-94, when he was a key member of the Rangers' Cup team as a rookie and again for Dallas in 1999, and continues to be a high level defenseman now. As has been said many times in the past, Zubov is the closest thing to a Russian Nicklas Lidstrom, as he plays a very similar style to Nick, is extremely consistent, and displays a high level of skill at both ends of the ice. 4. Pavel Bure. The "Russian Rocket" was the league's most feared goal scorer during his prime. He dominated games simply through his incredible skating and puckhandling. Beyond that, there was his amazing shot. The type and style of dominance Bure displayed was something only the very elite scorers were capable of. Bure had arguably the most accurate shot in the league, and he used it well, He was also a capable playmaker, although he rarely played with capable teammates, as while playing for the Panthers he broke the record for "highest percentage of own team's goals scored" meaning he scored a great quantity compared to his teammates. Bure was well known for his defensive deficiencies, but however seemed to ignore any suggestion to improve that part of his game. 5. Alexander Mogilny. The former Soviet linemate of Fedorov and Bure was not to be left behind when it came to blazing speed, either. Mogilny also had an impressive shot compared to the other two, but did not use it to the effect Bure did as he was a more highly skilled playmaker and tended more to that style. He was able to achieve the current Russian NHL record of 76 goals while playing the "scorer" role alongside Pat LaFontaine in 1992-93, but despite that he normally preferred the playmaker role. A better defensive player than Bure, Mogilny was considered an average defensive forward. 6. Pavel Datsyuk. He has won the past three Selke trophies as the league's top defensive forward, and has been one of the league's top offensive players for several years, although he did score considerably fewer points this past season than the previous four seasons. Datsyuk has been considered one of the league's elite centers and argued as one of, if not the best two-way center, as well as many considering him simply the best center. While he did start his career later than normal (his first NHL contract at age 23) he has done quite well in the NHL both offensively and defensively. 7. Nikolai Khabibulin. Khabibulin broke into the NHL with a Winnipeg Jets team with a talented young trio of forwards in Tkachuk/Zhamnov/Selanne, two solid veteran defensemen in Teppo Numminen and Darryl Shannon, and a declining semi-star goaltender in Tim Cheveldae. Cheveldae was acquired in a deadline deal the previous season and had been a huge improvement over the previous starter, who went the other way, Bob Essensa. But ultimately over the course of the season, Khabibulin took the starter's job from Cheveldae, the same as happened in Detroit the previous year when he lost it to Chris Osgood. In 95-96, Khabibulin would carry the still weak Winnipeg team all the way to the playoffs. Khabibulin would continue to spend his later years on teams with weak lineups until he came to a Tampa Bay team that, more by chance than anything else, managed to put together a championship-caliber team. He backstopped them to a Cup in 2004, but then came the NHL lockout and Khabibulin ended up going to the Chicago Blackhawks. We all know that story. Since then, he has moved to the Oilers and is again, like the beginning of his career, the backbone of a small-market Canadian team. 8. Evgeni Nabokov. He has been one of the league's top goaltenders for years, showing a high level of skill and consistency in his performance. He has been blamed for his team's failures in the postseason, but it is questionable as to how much of that was really his fault, and how much is simply following the standard "everything was the goalie's fault" so those criticisms must be taken with that in mind. He has posted the best statistics of any Russian goaltender in the NHL, although Ilya Bryzgalov likely will wipe that clean in the future. 9. Vyacheslav Kozlov. One of the most consistent scoring forwards over the past decade and a half, he has scored well regardless of playing with a top level linemate or not. Among offense-oriented forwards, Kozlov is also one of the few Russian forwards who has proven to be quite capable. While none of his skills can be considered "high end" Kozlov is a very good skater and playmaker, and has also proven himself quite capable of scoring goals as well. 10. Vladimir Konstantinov. While his career was cut to only six years, he played those six years at an extremely high level. He was among the league's top defensive defensemen, if not top defensemen, for all of them. As far as comparison to other Russian defensemen, Konstantinov is 12th in defense scoring, despite scoring relatively few points per season. The only defensemen who have played more NHL games than Konstantinov and played a high end defensive game were Zubov, Vladimir Malakhov, and Dmitri Yushkevich. Malakhov was a good two way defenseman but was not good enough offensively or overall to have had a better career; he actually had a worse PPG than Konstantinov. Yushkevich was one of the league's top defensive defensemen, but had no puck skills or skating ability while Konstantinov was perfectly capable of participating in an offensive rush. Sergei Gonchar is another defenseman who could be argued above Vladdie, but his lack of defensive and physical skills combined with his limited offense places him behind. I have also selected ten players for Honorable Mention: FORWARDS: Ilya Kovalchuk Alexei Kovalev Evgeni Malkin Alexei Yashin Alexei Zhamnov Sergei Gonchar Viacheslav Fetisov Vladimir Malakhov Andrei Markov Ilya Bryzgalov The All-Time All-Russian Team: First Team F Sergei Fedorov F Alexander Ovechkin F Pavel Bure D Sergei Zubov D Vladimir Konstantinov G Nikolai Khabibulin Second Team F Alexander Mogilny F Pavel Datsyuk F Vyacheslav Kozlov D Sergei Gonchar D Viacheslav Fetisov G Evgeni Nabokov

All this does is hype me up even more. Dear season, please come quick.

I mentioned it several times on this board before, but it was probably about 6 or 7 years ago, I went a game at the Joe and Pavel had really just started bursting onto the scene (it was only like his 3rd or 4th season with the Wings full time), well anyways, like I said, he had been with the Wings for several years, so I was fully aware of who he was and was just starting to get an idea of just HOW good he was/could be... we went to the game early for warm-ups and after almost everyone else was done with warm-ups and skating back off, he skated into the crease at about the top of the crease and repeatedly (at least 20 times in a row) shot the puck so that it hit the side post, then crossbar, then back down to his stick *ding, ding, dink* , like a double bank shot in billiards... Like I said he did this about 20 times WITHOUT FAIL and without barely moving his stick more than 2 inches each time to adjust to where the puck landed... I was absolutely awe-struck at his control and hands... Fast forward to today and all the CONTINUED highlight moves and I can confidently say, WITHOUT hesitation, that Pavel Datsyuk has the single greatest puck control/hands in the history of the game... go ahead and try and argue who is/has been better? It's like the guy LITERALLY has the puck attached to his stick by a string and is a once in a lifetime (possibly history) that you will ever see a player with that ability... and DAMN are we lucky it is happening in the Winged Wheel...

Yes, Bettman let's just forego any exposure of the game on the biggest sporting event in the history of the world, because of travel. But let's open the season in Europe...? Am I missing something?

Who MacWhatnow?

Talking about power forwards has to be the most idiotic forum topic NO ONE AGREES and it will always turn into a s***storm

ericsson would be 10X better if he hammered people in front of the net instead of standing around with his finger up his ass

The power forward. A skilled, strong offensive player capable of grinding in the corners, screening in front effectively without being easily displaced, and using their size and strength to overwhelm the opposing defensive players. For one, I've never considered fighting a required part of being a power forward. And to require it now, when fighting in general is rare, is even more ridiculous. How many fights happen per season? Probably fewer than happened per-TEAM in 1993. So physically powerful scoring forwards (maybe that's where the name "power forward" came from?) are basicallywhat we're looking for. Well for one, Shayne Corson wasn't, not did I ever consider him, a power forward. Excellent defensively? Sure. Great Grinder? Definitely. Power Forward? No way. He wasn't good enough offensively to get that title. Some guys in the league now who could be called a PF? Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Lucic, Iginla, Jokinen, E.Staal, Nash, Hossa, Morrow, Franzen, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Kopitar, Latendresse, M.Richards, Doan, Downie, Backes, Malone, Lecavalier, Ovechkin, Malkin, Horton, Thornton A lot of those guys don't fit the "Score 30 goals, hit a ton, fight, get 200 PIMs" mold that a lot of people seem to have. I know some people wouldn't consider a lot of those guys power forwards. But these are all examples of players who will regularly use their physical presence as an offensive tool To compare based on my definition; yes Kevin Stevens was a good player, yes he had a good shot. But realistically, Jokinen has to use his body more to create offense, while Stevens could simply sit back and take the incoming pass from Mario Lemieux. Lemieux is another example of a power forward. He was physically large even for today's NHL, and played in a much smaller league, so a majority of his offense came from simply skating right through-over?-the defense and doing whatever he wanted. Granted, even in his later years, Lemieux was still far more offensively dominant than anyone else could hope to be.