Leaderboard

Are you ashamed of your team if they lose? Why not put the flags on your car either way.

esteef

It boggles my mind to see Red Wings fans who still think enforcers are needed. For pretty much the past 20 years, the Wings have been at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors (dead last every year since the lockout) and still been the most successful team in the league. Even allowing that fighting is a valuable ability for a team to have, it is painfully obvious that the lack of it can be compensated for in other areas. Instead, the pro-enforcer crowd just overstates the value of whatever 'enforcer' we've had in the past, even though they probably spent the whole year complaining about how soft we were. People talk about the 96-98 teams like they were some great monument to team toughness, but the reality is they still rarely fought and were considered 'soft' compared to most of the league. McCarty was never so tough that he scared anyone. People who spent all of 08 whining about how soft we were now talk about Drake like he was one of the great all-time fighters. This year will likely be no different than any other. We'll have a handful of fights. People will cry about how soft we are, blame every minor injury on our lack of fighters. If we aren't successful it will be because we weren't tough enough. But if we happen to win a Cup, it will be because of great enforcing from Bert and Abby or whoever happens to have a couple fights during the year. The simple fact is that any deficiency can be overcome by enough strength in other areas. A strong defense can make up for a weaker offense or sub-par goaltending. A strong offense can offset a less than stellar defense. Great depth can overcome injuries or below average play from your stars. Dominant stars can compensate for a lack of depth. There isn't any one thing that is an absolute must have. It's the general level of team talent, coaching and system, great effort, and a bit of luck that wins Cups. We have the talent, coaching, and system, despite any specific weaknesses we might have. All we really need now is the effort and luck.

Has anyone else noticed how many people on other sites and TSN's Your Call put so much stock in Pre-Season?? It's absolutely hilarious how many people throw the Wings under the bus because they lose pre-season games, and some by more than 3 goals. Don't people know the whole point of NHL pre-season is to match your prospects up against the other teams top talent? That's why teams play back-to-back and have completely different line-ups each night. You need these games to give your prospects and indication of where they need to be at to play against other teams top talent on and NHL roster night in and night out. Just wanted to see what you guys think about the pre-season games and the outlandish comments people make about "teams chances of winning the cup" because of the exhibition performances.

I'm not anti-fighting, but this comment cracks me up almost as much as the entertainment value comment. If Holland wanted to put together a team like every other team... that's just what they would be, like every other team. Not many teams out there like the Wings and it suits me just fine. Wings don't copy the blueprint, they design it.

No. It's just something to freak out Gaborik if he's reading on this site.

Game 1 of 82VS. Joe Louis Arena - Detroit, MI TV/Radio Tonight's Stream http://atdhe.net/20121/watch-toronto-maple-leafs-vs-detroit-red-wings Game Preview: Red Wings to dress top three lines Tonight's Officials Unknown Pre-season Toronto: 4-2-1 Last Game - Defeated OTT 4-3 Detroit: 2-3-0 Last Game - Lost to NYR 5-1 Last DET-TOR Meeting: 11/7/09, DET 1 at TOR 5Recap Goals TOR Phil Kessel, Nikolai Kulemin: 5 DET Three tied at 2 Assists TOR Dion Phaneauf, Kris Versteeg: 4 DET Brian Rafalski: 3 Plus/Minus TOR Nikolai Kulemin: +2 DET Brian Rafalski: +3 PIM TOR Mike Brown: 22 DET Todd Bertuzzi: 17 Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom Franzen-Filppula-Ritola Hudler-Modano-Cleary Maltby/Ritola-Emmerton-Mursak Lidstrom-Kindl Stuart-Rafalski Lashoff-Kronwall Projected TOR Lines Versteeg - Bozak - Kessel Kadri - Grabovski - Kulemin Caputi - MacArthur - Armstrong Brown/Sjostrom - Hanson - Orr Beauchemin-Phaneuf Kaberle-Komisarek Gunnarsson-Holzer TOR Jussi Rynnas 0-0-0 (2 games played in), 4.36 GAA, .886 SV %, 0 SO DET Tomas McCollum 0-0-0 (1 game played in) 0.00 GAA, .100 SV %, 0 SO TOR Brett Lebda (shoulder) out, Jeff Finger (knee) out, Matt Lashoff (shoulder) out, Mike Van Ryn (knee) out DET Kris Draper (groin) out, Patrick Eaves (ankle) won't play, Todd Bertuzzi (back tightness) won't play Next Game 10/2, Red Wings at Maple Leafs; 7:00 PM

Downey would NEVER be on the ice with either of the above players. Hard to enforce anything for them from the bench! I'm all for a player who can drop the gloves and defend himself and his teammates but has to be able to play some hockey as well.

I can agree with most of this- an enforcer isn't needed to win. However, this doesn't address the real issue. If the Wings had always carried an enforcer as the 13th forward- playing ~50 games a season- would the Wings have been any less successful?

very interested in seeing kindl with lids. nice lineup im hoping to see some nice production other then the first line

Pre-season means nothing. The Wings will be the best team in the league if they can remain healthy. There is just too much going for them. Everyone is back healthy and rested and motivated. Hudler and Modano and Salei make the team better. The Hawks have been ripped apart and have zero to no quality depth. All the other so called contenders out there have their weaknesses. Vancouver has Luongo and the Sedins who are choke artists in big games. The Sharks have no depth and Thornton always disappears. They can only win when the refs give them 10 5 on 3's a game The Kings are not ready yet as most of their player's balls have yet to drop. The Preds can compete for so long before they lose out. The Blues never live up to the hype of their idiot fans. The Avs are getting better but most of their success was in the first half of last season. As for the East, the Pens have Sid and Malkin and a bunch of ham and eggers. Philly has no goaltending. The Caps have no balls and are just a regular season stat machine. Brodeur can't carry the Devs anymore and they never score in the playoffs. Boston is good enough to make it to the playoffs but never do anything. Call me a homer (not Holmstrom) but come on man...the Detroit Red Wings are the best team in hockey! We will all enjoy seeing them prove it! All those other jealous douchebags can kiss my ass.

I'd agree with that I think. It also depends on where your team was at last season, where they intend to be now and what kinds of players are in camp. The Leafs, for example, have a lot of new faces and a lot of guys coming off of years where they're looking to improve. You've got a group of forwards fighting for spots and it's a lot more wide open (in some ways) than a camp like the Wings where really only the 14th forward and 7th d spot are open (according to Holland and Babcock in the media). If you really look at the Wings camp the only spot that is really up for debate it's the 14th forward spot. No way Kindl isn't the 7th spot since he'd be exposed to waivers and certainly picked up. So the Wings are using camp as a means to tune up their roster players and look at younger guys who know they are GR bound. Where as the Leafs have many open spots. Their players are fighting not only for roster spots but the guarenteed roster players are fighting for depth position. At least that's one take on it

Aaron came to camp with a great attitude and worked hard. But one twist of fate and it's all for naught. It was great to see you again, Aaron, and thanks for the hugs. Good luck and good journeys.

Dedicated servers and shared servers have nothing to do with the conversation. Its all about the ISP. Who says I am thinking that they are only charging for bandwidth or that he is only doing it for free? I don't think anyone is that dumb, and since I never said that, you can stop drawing conclusions to try to make yourself look righteous. As for you doing business where I work on the ISP side, you are probably safe there unless you do business in MI and stream a ton of video. From your knowledge and experience, you obviously don't do that. Otherwise, you would have been down that road as I have with many customers. I would like to have a good natured conversation with you about this if you are interested. Lets take it to PM though. The conversation is way off topic.

I had posted this in the training camp thread. Holland also mentioned two things in regards to the vets and Draper. One, he made the point of saying, (me paraphrasing) "Why do we keep the older guys around? Well, we keep them on the team, and every 4 years or so we're driving down Woodward, and they're usually in a convertible somewhere down the line having gotten us there." He also mentioned that during one of the Phoenix games last season, Helm had lost a face off that resulted in a game winning goal, and at practice the next day, who was it out on the ice with Helm, practicing all the "strategies" for winning a face-off? Draper, the "player at the top of the league the previous year in face-offs won." Like it or not, Holland likes his cocktail of veteran and younger players and knows the fine line he walks in regards to bringing new players up in a timely fashion but also getting the most value (in his eyes) out of the experienced players too.

I am not arguing the intellectual property rights at all. I was merely correcting you in that the bandwidth costs are not a concern. If you want to change the subject in order to make a valid point so it makes you look right, then thats great. You can find someone else to debate with on that topic.

Good luck getting unlimited when you have thousands of users pushing that kind of bandwidth. I am also in the online industry, but I contract on the ISP side, and I am smart enough to know that those prices are not accurate. Providers like netelligent oversell their bandwidth all the time. They will not support thousands of users streaming video. If you think they will, then you are dreaming.

That was 2006. Now is now. You're supporting my point. They had neither last season, and Erskine still had only four fights. They nevertheless had the best regular season in team history. I don't get how this is important. You claimed that every single team uses a Downey-like player. Washington did not have one last year, and they were enormously successful.

Nice to resort to petty insults. I won't be able to sleep. Holland is a great GM, I trust that he knows what's best. I don't think the Red Wings are going to suck because they don't have a player that plays 3 minutes a night and punches people.

I would say the best thing about Callahans fighting is his ability to hang with guys that are several inches taller than him. He goes with some big guys, and often comes out with the win. Think of the 08-09 Carcillo, or Domi.

This guy is a gimmick. He purposely publishes garbage for the attention. This thread is the perfect example how he operates. Personally, I would remove his link and ignore his s***. You are giving him exactly what he wants.

Downey is a class act, what a great guy. hard worker, tough as nails, always willing to help teammates. Good luck Downey wish you the best!

Welcome to another year of cheapshots on Franzen, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. The Brooks Orpik hit is only the beginning of what we're gonna see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsdXmYGFBcU&feature=related

Consider him traded then if we are going on a "breakout" year. It would shock me (although pleasantly). Just can't see Val blowing up for 50 or 60+ points. Still have to say his strength on the puck at times and unreal puck placement on shots-sometimes-can be fun to watch. Lets just see what happens