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i like winning games so im glad this isnt our roster...

Yet the Wings have done this season after season, dressing a toughie over more skilled players that they absolutely have in the minors. The enforcer creates an environment of toughness that rubs off on other players. This is they key point that is ignored. By the time the team gets to the playoffs, hopefully the enforcer isn't needed. If it didn't make one bit of difference, they wouldn't f***in' do it. esteef

Any word on the wings lineup? Kind of a bummer crosbys not playing...i woulda loved to see kronner lay him out today.

When we lost all those guys, we had to bring in our top prospects from the AHL. Chicago's top prospects are already in the regular lineup....

Phaneuf is a ******.

Because got an extra 4.

In Jimmy We Trust! Great glove save. Great hustle by Miller there.

If the Blackheads start looking for sympathy, they'll find it between "s***" and "syphillis" in the dictionary.

The enforcer threads would probably be shorter if you guys didn't chime in with trolling crap like this. And no, I don't want Hordichuk on the Wings.

I'm not gonna argue that you need an enforcer to win a Cup, but your reasoning doesn't prove anything. Because in your opinion the Wings had a team capable of winning the Cup and they didn't have an enforcer, that somehow proves that you don't need an enforcer to win the Cup?? They didn't win the cup, so it proves nothing. It's all just speculation on your part. Abby is definitely not an enforcer. He's not afraid to muck it up if someone gets after him when he throws a hit, but he can barely handle himself at the NHL level. He's young, so maybe he'll improve, but even then he's not an enforcer. He'll hopefully be a good player who isn't afraid to drop the gloves, which is good. And if you're going back 15 years, there were a number of guys who could fight well. McCarty, Lapointe, Grimson, Shanahan, Kocur, Pushor, Fischer. There's guys on the team from that era who would beat the snot out of anyone on the current Wings roster. And plenty of other guys who would fight on occasion and could handle themselves. So if you're comparing the two eras, it's pretty different now than it was then. The current roster has a few guys who are willing to drop the gloves, but none who are particularly good at it. Bert has probably had his one fight for the season already. Ericsson rag dolling a gutless puke like Perry does not make him a good fighter. Then there's Abby, Eaves, Cleary. Last season the Wings had 19 fights. 10 of which were from Brad May. If Holland knows what he's doing and apparently doesn't believe in enforcers, it's odd how he keeps trying to add guys like May and Downey to the lineup. And as I said before, it's ridiculous to measure adding an enforcer against whether that one element will win us the Cup. Hockey is obviously a more complex game than that. And this is pretty much the only debate that the standard for adding that kind of player is there has to be definitive proof it will lead the Wings to the Cup. It's absurd. He absolutely was. It's not a coincidence that his level of agitating dropped off as those guys were no longer on the team.

Visors........Ditch the damn things before you fight...

In order to win a Cup, a team needs a balance of skill, grit, and veteran experience. You won't win a Cup with a team compiled of nothing but goons, but you're not gonna won a Cup is your lineup is compiled of nothing but soft euros. There needs to be balance. Bottom 6 guys are valuable keys to playoff success. In 2008, Dallas Drake was stellar in the playoffs. He provided a grizzly hard-hitting veteran presence to go alongside Darren McCarty. Now, when you look at the team this year, the skill is there (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, etc.), the veteran presence is there (Lidstrom, Draper, Osgood, Modano), but is the team gritty enough? Patrick Eaves, Justin Abdelkader, and Darren Helm are all solid grinders. They all play well defensively. Now, in my opinion, the one piece to the puzzle missing is the fisticuff presence. As mentioned before, the Cup-Winning team in 2008 had Drake and McCarty. Take a look at past Cup-winning teams and Chicago had some guys willing to mix it up: Adam Burish and Ben Eager. Anaheim in 2007 had plenty of willing combatants with George Parros, Brad May, and Travis Moen, among others. I feel the last missing piece to complete this team is that fisticuff presence.

We always win these "enforcer" thread arguments. The anti-enforcer slappies need to give it up already.

Lol, our AHL team held the Leafs to 4-2. I would not be happy with that as a Leafs fan.

That was a great pass by Ericsson.

Amazing how good Phaneuf looks when he's playing against Maltby and Miller, instead of Pavel and Hank. What a defensive plug he is.

Its okay, this is Ericsson's contract year, so if he keeps this up all year he is gonna get 5mil per year from Toronto.

Agreed. Rosehill needs to get out of Toronto, he is a pretty good hockey player but in his role with Brown and Orr ahead of him he isn't needed there. He can skate as fast if not faster then Miller, throws big hits and would fight 30 times a year. I'm surprised he hasn't got a shot at the NHL full time yet. And I just wanna say one thing, all the anti enforcer people who say the wings can win without toughness in the line up, I would love proof of that because there hasn't been a cup won without a straight up enforcer in the line up for the wings. I'm not saying I want someone like Downey who I think is past his prime but I would like to see us draft some 6'4 crazy sob and put him in the line up. I just don't get how anti enforcer people can say the wings have proven time and time again they can win without a goon when it has never actually happeened

Probably got it that way because he realized there just isn't really way to make an airbrushed duck look intimidating...

Let me help you out, GMR. Pure enforcers (or "goons") carried by each team: Anaheim: George Parros Dallas: Krys Barch, Adam Burish Phoenix: Paul Bissonnette Los Angeles: Richard Clune San Jose: Jamal Mayers, Frazer McLaren Chicago: John Scott St. Louis: Cam Janssen Columbus: Jared Boll, Derek Dorsett Nashville: Wade Belak Calgary: Raitis Ivanans Edmonton: Zack Stortini, Steve MacIntyre Minnesota: Brad Staubitz Colorado: David Koci Vancouver: Darcy Hordichuk Philadelphia: Jody Shelley Pittsburgh: Eric Godard NYR: Derek Boogaard NYI: Trevor Gillies, Zenon Konopka New Jersey: Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond Toronto: Colton Orr, Jay Rosehill Boston: Shawn Thornton, Brian McGrattan Montreal: Ryan White Buffalo: Cody McCormick Ottawa: Matt Carkner Atlanta: Eric Boulton, Boris Valabik Washington: D.J. King, John Erskine Florida: Andrew Peters Tampa Bay: Nate Thompson Carolina: Jay Harrison This list excludes guys who can puck the puck in the net once in a blue moon. I will make one including guys who are a bit more versatile, but rack up tons of fights and penalty minutes as well, just to show how soft this team really is.

Abdelkader, one of my favourites, that hit and willingness to fight a prime example why!

Another thread to be overrun by Enforcer Groupies.

Inb4 enforcer debate.

Overall I think the team put up a pretty good fight.

Also, Ericsson has been awf......oh wait nevermind, he actually is playing tonight.