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I think this off-season will go very far in defining Ken Holland as a GM. It will show whether his inactivity at the last 2 trade deadlines and last summer were smart move (saving cap and roster space for a big free agent push this summer) or if he lacks the ability or desire to make necessary changes to the makeup of his club in order to stay competitive. I've been pretty critical of Holland's moves (or more specifically, lack thereof) when it appears the Wings are stale and in need of a wakeup call. I feel he's hung on to some players for too long (Chelios, Maltby, Holmstrom, and now Bertuzzi) at the expense of critical NHL development time for some of the younger players, I think he lets prospects sit in Grand Rapids for too long--Brendan Smith should have been with the Wings for most, if not all, of last season and basically been Nick Lidstrom's shadow, playing with him in all situations (what better way to learn??), and I can't take him seriously when he says he expects his team to compete for the Stanley Cup every year, but there are no repercussions for players who woefully underperform when the team falls short (i.e., nobody "essential" gets traded away, which sends a message to all remaining players). I can't give credit to Holland (as GM) for the '97 or '98 Cups, as he was in the process of being handed that team just as they reached the top of the league. The '98 team was on a mission after the limo accident. The '02 Cup, he'll get credit, but he had Ilitch's open bank vault and fit the right pieces into place. The '08 Cup and '09 final, that's all him. 21 straight playoff appearances is very impressive. But the last 4 Cup champs were teams that missed the playoffs in the first season after the lockout, and 3 of the 4 Conference finalists this year missed the playoffs that season. Those teams have had better chances to restock their systems with higher draft picks. In my opinion, Holland cannot afford to miss out on the best players available, whether it's through free agency or trade. Time for change, time for improvement.

I don't know about make it or break it, but I think this is the biggest test of his career as GM.

Right or wrong, success is measured by lots of people in Cups. If Holland gets one of Parise or Suter and we get a Cup, he will be hailed as a genius for getting the right one. If we don't get a Cup, many will be second guessing him and saying he got the wrong one. If both go for insanely high prices and he just failed to overpay, some will say it was a shrewd move and others will decry him for not trying hard enough. These are not all people, of course, but it seems like a lot of people have a "what have you done for me lately?" mentality. Look at Rafalski. He was hailed, then scorned, then respected in retrospect. I don't think that the moves Holland makes this summer will seal his legacy, but he has a good opportunity to add pieces we need to get another Cup or two. If he does well, and we get at least one Cup, people will use this summer to make a case for his greatness, but I wouldn't say that when we look back it will difinitively make or break him. EDIT: Unless he gets Parise, Suter, and trades everyone we don't like for someone a jillion times better and signs them cheap. Then it will make him the greatest, but I don't see that realistically happening. Just had to add it for completeness of thought. EDIT 2: Blast! I miss spellcheck!

As you've undoubtedly noticed, things look a bit different around here! The LGW Forums have underwent the biggest upgrade since 2010 and there are a lot of significant changes -- far more than I think I could meaningfully gather into this post. Many you'll notice as you continue to surf the forums as many of the enhancements are functional. Bullets: There are currently two "main" template skins, labeled "White" (the default one) and "Red" You're free to switch among them as you see fit by clicking on the "Change Theme" link at the bottom of the page. Removal of profile pictures IP.Board opted to merge the two into one avatar, and as of the last update I believe that remote-linking of images for avatars is no longer permitted (security risk). Speed The forums should show some significant speed improvements. Some of this is due to inline updating: Posts can be added to threads seamlessly. I'll continue to try to make as many speed improvements to the forums as I can. More integration with social media You'll see the ability to add topics to your Facebook/Twitter accounts. Rep System replaced with "Like" button No more +/- functionality as it has been replaced with a "Like this Post" button. Topic Preview When viewing the forum index (like 'General Discussion' here), you can mouseover a topic and see a dark gray down arrow icon appear to the right -- click it to expand the topic to view the first few posts before going to the topic page itself. TapaTalk functionality is BACK Some members have been clamoring for it to return as a mobile viewing option, so here it is. TapaTalk is now compatible with the forum (in addition to the standard Mobile theme that's also available if you're still looking for an easy mobile browsing solution.) Custom Topic Tags Options vary by forums and by member group, but there are now customized topic tags (or 'badges'). In the past it was limited to "PINNED" and "POLL", but I've expanded that to include "GDT" (for Game Day Threads), "SIGNED" for *official* signings, and "TRADE" for topics discussing an official trade. (Do not abuse this ability! It's a great visual aid for visitors of the forums and those that abuse it will be promptly suspended/banned.) Better Spam Protection All new registrations are IP checked against a known spam list remotely hosted and updated. This should help eliminate a large number of spammers that manually attempt to register and stops them before even seeing the registration form. New Profile "Statistics" Tab Just what it says: No see just how addicted you are to LGW by looking at your recorded posting habits by time of day and by forum activity. Gallery Link added to Profile A new "Gallery" tab has been added to your User Profile, for quick access to see what user's have uploaded and shared with the community. Topic "Tags" These replace the the topic subtitle (the smaller, gray text that was present on the last version). You can enter up to 10 per topic, separated by commas. Use vital keywords describing the topic, like a player name, team, etc., and it'll help catalog forum topics more efficiently to help search engine spiders and the search feature here work more efficiently. There are plenty more, and I'll add to this thread as I can -- right now I'll be tending to little bug fixes here and there that tend to pop up following a major upgrade like this. (Also, if any members see something I didn't mention, please feel free to add it here!)

Well, if he lands Suter and Parise and we win the Cup, I think it will cement his legacy as a HoF GM. If he lands neither, and we miss the playoffs or exit early it will tarnish his image in the short term (unfairly), but long term he will still be remembered as one of the best. Remember, he was also assistant GM for 3 years, and director of amatuer scouting for 7 before that. He played a significant role in building the team he "inherited". He's also made some big moves that people consider "failures" just because they didn't result in a Cup. Hossa, Hatcher, Clark/Samuelsson/Ranford, Cujo, Lang... He's also facing an uphill battle. We may need some big signing or trade, but that doesn't make doing it any easier. There's one real impact defenseman who might be available, and about 20 teams with the desire and ability to make a good offer for him. We have some assets to trade, but that doesn't mean any teams with the players we want will make those players available or be interested in what we can offer. Fact is, if Red Wings fans judged other teams or GMs by the same standard Kenny has to live up to, they'd all be considered abject failures. We just lost the best defenseman of our generation, plus Stu, Rafi last year. Our stars are in their 30s. We haven't had any high draft picks during his tenure. We've dealt with the loss of stars and key roleplayers, like Konstantinov, Hasek, Yzerman, Hull, Fedorov, Robitaille, Shanahan, Chelios, Draper, Maltby, Osgood, Fischer, and more without needing to rebuild. And we are still talking about making moves to keep us a Cup contender rather than about rebuilding. That says alot more about Kenny than anything that might happen July 1st or afterward. But if we don't make any big moves, and Kenny says, like last summer or the deadline, "We wanted to make some moves, but could find one that fit. But we like our team." everyone will just jump on the "we like our team" bit. As if all the best FAs offered to play here for free and every other GM offered to trade us their best players for our worst and Kenny turned them down. It's like half this board thinks the rest of the league has to get Kenny's permission before they can do anything, and the only reason we haven't done more already is because we didn't want to.

1. Hot BBQ 2. Wild 3. Spicy Garlic 4. Asian Zing 5. Hot Of the current Red Wings though, a combination of Hank, Pavs, Kronner, Helm, & Howie.

Except he loves to take dumb penalties and his defensive game is still pretty rough.

I first noticed White when he played against us in San Jose and thought he was a great little player. When we poicked him up I was so happy, I think White has been a fantastic addition. Low cost, high energy, gives his all, safe and for a small guy he plays bigger then some of our big guys... yes I'm looking at you Ericsson "The friendly giant". Trading White would be a dumb and pointless move imo.

Also keep in mind he has been forced to play with Kindl, Commodore, Lebda... Ian white, Kronwall and Stuart would probably look worse playing with these scrubs

...are there any rumblings or rumors out there concerning these two? You would think that as RFA's they would be signed before July 1st (if they really want to come back.) Maybe Abdelkader will a bit harder to re-sign than we imagined... I know Holland was kinda busy today but I would hope he at least has talked to Abby's agent. I wonder what the hold up is for him...he may be looking for (and could possibly get) near $2M somewhere. I would think that that would be a bit much for him, but you never know around the league. If that is the case, I'd sign them both and trade them...possibly in a package to the....Ducks! Sorry, but until Bobby Ryan and Justin Schultz are unavailable, I am going to try to find ways to get them here!

It's going to be a huge test for him,no doubt,but don't think he'll fail. He isn't the aggressive GM,but neither is stupid not to act when he needs to. You can't replace Lidstrom,that's obvious,but all this situation reminds me a bit on Schneider's departure. Did Ken act then?Yes by signing Rafalski so I'm optimistic he'll do the same with Suter

The Russian 5.

This right here. Its not a make or break for him. He really has had more success than any other GM in the last 15 years.

Curse you, Dominator.

Obviously a pick that I love but even better is that I just read hes only played 1 year of defense, so he is very raw in that reguard. He could become like an Ericcson situation where his D gets quite a bit better because he was very raw at one point. The other AMAZING part of this pick is he isnt a big, slow goon. His skating is apparently very good and he moves aronud fast out there. Down the line he could even be switched to forward again if D just isnt working out for him, unleash him from the fourth line and let him run around at anything that moves because hes fast. Great pick! and by going to WMU, we all know he can fight, he had 12 last season which is A LOT in the USHL and he led the league but at WMU he can learn to play defense without worrying about fighting as much. In that fight video above where he works that Ferguson, that guy is a fighter and 2 years older than him and Mckee just tuned him. I can't believe the wings drafted a 6'5, 232 lb 17 year old. Hes going to be a monster and at the very least an enforcer somewhere in the NHL I would guess because he can skate

Franzen never played a game in the AHL. He came over from Sweden and stepped right into the line-up. I remember when Holland signed him that Kenny said he would be on the team. If that isn't a guaranteed spot then I don't know what is.

GD! I forgot about Ott...would be a nice pickup... Do we have a link to the Red Wings tendering the qualifying offers? Strange that they only qualified Abby....good that they only qualified Quincey...I can see those draft picks coming soon! Hopefully Edmonton or Montreal picks him up! Lottery pick, here we come!

His skillset is useless to be buried on gthe 4th line dump and chasing - and at 26 its sink or swim time. We cant afford to "groom" him in the AHL for a year or two just to bring him up to ride pine. This guy the the skillset of an NHL players and very well could succeed and put up respectable numbers playing with Pav or Z. At the same time he could get crushed into dust and lose his confidence inside of the first month. Hell be given enough rope to hang himself - and if he doesnt fit, hell be snipped by December. Give the guy a shot, I like what I see. Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen Filpula-Zetterberg-Brunner *if we get a Parise or Semin then bump Franzen or Nyquist back to the 3rd line with Helm and Bert.

id take prust or moen over abby. sorry bud

The bottom 6 needs some identity. Prust is the guy we're looking for. I guess he was offered $1.8 mil by Sather, but wants $2.2 mil.

I'm swiss and I know Brunner very well. He has been the best player for the last couple of seasons. Apparently, he has a very good work ethic and he is a good finisher too. The gap between NHL and Swiss National Leaugue is big, but he has great skating abilites and he is fast with the puck. He never had problems playing against physical teams. MLive and Detnews say that Brunner will sign with the Wings, but Swiss sites are more neutral (as Switzerland is : ) ). We have to way a couple of days before knowing if he is going to sign. Apparently, he is not allowed to talk to the media because he still have a contract with Zug (until july 1st). I'll let you know!

In general I really like the new look. Only thing I would recommend is with Franzens picture at the top. It should be faded gray 5 out of 7 days of the week.

Change is scary

I know it's a limited sample size in some cases (Smith & Commodore), but here's what the Wings d-men looked like from a points per game standpoint last season: Smith: 0.5 Lidstrom: 0.49 Kronwall: 0.44 White: 0.42 Stuart: 0.26 Kindl: 0.24 Ericsson: 0.16 Commodore: 0.12 Now I'm not saying that Smith is going to be the next Lidstrom, but 7 points in 14 games and from what I remember watching those games, Smith did not look out of place at all. Oh, and he got those points playing on the 3rd pairing if I remember correctly. And yes, there are higher expectations for Smith & assumed much more potential than Ericsson because Smith=27th pick/Ericsson=291st. I think though that ultimately the debate on Schultz will be solved by him turning down a contract with the Wings because he won't have a guarantee to make the big club his first year. He'll wind up playing big minutes in Toronto or Edmonton & missing the playoffs year after year instead based on current rumors.

I would have to agree, if he was paid a little less. At Ericsson's salary, he is paid just right with what he brings to the table. Still, Ericsson takes a lot of abuse on these forums, and I don't think it is deserved. He is going to be a solid defenseman for the wings for many years to come.