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The owners vs. players debate has played out ad nauseum - please don't start it up again. We all know where everybody stands and no one's mind is going to change. Please discuss the details of the offers only.

No, if Columbus went 0-16, they'd consider it an average start. EDIT:There is something screwy with the quote tags today!

I wonder when we will know the NHLPA's response. I think the owners made a very reasonable offer here, we will see if the NHLPA responds in like fashion or decides on more posturing instead.

I have a better question. If the owners were making 57% and the players were making 43%, and the players went on strike, would you be on the side of the owners because they didn't strike? Would you be calling the players greedy because they wanted an equal share?

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2336980" data-time="1356745371"><p> <br /> Eriksson won us the Cup in 98. How many Cups has Bertuzzi won for us? </p></blockquote> I dont know if I'd go that far!!

I like how the linesman swooped in to stop Franzen from unleashing any fury. Another mouthguard removal might have ended Thornton's career.

I side with owners.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2336978" data-time="1356745011"><p> What's the point? Everyone knows who these people are anyway. No secret. <br /> <br /> I think the league just needs to return to regularly calling diving. They went away from it since the lockout, and it's created more divers. </p></blockquote> Since the lockout/since Crosby entered the league.. How convenient. Edit: i don't know what happened with the quote..?

NBA is fining players right now for diving/flopping. Could the NHL do the same?

1. Call it and not the 'false offense'. 2. Can they post GIFs in the locker rooms instead?

The pattern seems to be something like this... NHL makes offer. NHLPA accepts NHL's concessions and dresses up counter proposal basically giving up nothing. Players keeps saying 'we agreed to 50-50' when really they didn't. If you look closely enough at what exactly the NHLPA has been offering, it is still around 55-57%. So the NHL then gets mad and Bettman throws a hissy fit and Daly says dumb things like 'this is the hill we will die on.' Neither side talks for a week or 2 and then the NHL comes back with another offer. The NHLPA responds the same way they have all along. During this process we see things such as...Crosby standing behind Fehr with his baseball cap pulled down to his crotch saying things like 'we have made fair offers and the owners have done nothing and we can't negotiate with an unwilling partner.' Daly (Elmer Fudd) basically does most of the talking to the media because Bettman is too angry to speak apparently.Billionaires fighting with millionaires. It's impossible for me to feel sorry for any of these guys. I mean seriously, how to these guys NOT get a deal done? Bettman is making 8 mil and I am surre Fehr is not starving. These guys are PAID to negotiate a deal and yet all they do is whine back and forth. What gets me the most is the time wasted in all of this. When the NFL and NFL union were negotiating back and forth, at least they were talking around the clock EVERY DAY. These twits can't even talk most of the time. And when they do, they get mediators involved and go through the motions. "I want this, this and that. Well I want that, that and this." Oh now I am so mad I can't talk anymore. I may get back to the table if I feel like it in a week or so." Both sides are deadline hunting. Things will not get serious until the last minute in mid January. Then when Fehr offers the same thing only dressed up differently and Bettman throws his 67th hissy fit, there will be NO time to negotiate an actual deal. Too much time wasted. No momentum made. No real negotiating done. It's like when you're in school and you wait until the last minute to study for a test but instead you go to Game 7 Wings vs Leafs at the Joe in 1993 and watch in horror as NIk the Stik scores the game winning goal. Oh wait never mind...What was I saying? Both sides are morons. The NHL IS and has always been its own worst enemy. I think Babs may be right. The NHL when it does come back, may be as popular as bowling in the US. The NHL is not a 3 billion dollar industry anymore that's for sure. And whose fault is it? Bunch of clowns.

Personally, I value consistency above overall numbers. Franzen has demonstrated that he has all the tools needed to be one of the most lethal forwards in the game, which many defenses have no answer to. Because of this skill, he has been penciled in as the team's scorer, for better or worse. He isn't a role-player anymore, he is a key cog, and I don't think its realistic for a key cog to only work on random nights. Why should Franzen get a pass for taking the rest of the week off because he scored a hat-trick against some team on Monday night? That's unacceptable to me. Franzen has become an unreliable asset, which unfortunately the Red Wings have invested a great deal in. Yes, Franzen has scored some big goals and he has scored quite a few of them, but when its late in Game 7 and our team is down by one goal, why should we put our trust into Franzen to save us? How will I know that he will use his skill and actually contribute? What if tonight is one of those nights when the cog isn't working? Just a side note: Franzen may have had 10 game winning goals, but the Wings would only lose those games in which we otherwise would have won by one goal. If the Wings won 5-2 and Franzen got the GWG, we still win without his contribution.