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So making the playoffs is our only goal now? People are panicking because of the long-term uncertainty of this team, and the lack of tradeable assets we have. No one is saying we can't make the playoffs, it's just that no one cares. If you have Hockeytown imprinted at center ice, you should have higher goals than just making the playoffs. We made the playoffs last year and barely won a game. Who was satisfied with that? People are still upset with Holland for doing nothing decent the last few deadlines and offseasons, and won't let it go. Now, I realize Wings fans have high expectations and are stubborn, but that's a good thing and what great franchises should be about. This is the best US based franchise in hockey history, and fans don't want it to go back into the toilet again. Fans are looking for something in the future which suggests being a frequent Cup contender. You have to remember most Wings fans on this site (myself included) have never seen this team not be one of the main contenders. And before anyone mentions last year's Kings, or the 2006 Oilers, 2004 Flames, etc., we don't have the kind of roster that can make a playoff run as a 7 or 8 seed. You need to have a good defense and a hot goalie to do that. Or be a tough team to play against who outworks opponents every game. We're none of those things.

this. He played pretty well as a starter on a pretty awful leafs team, I have been very excited to see what he can do in the winged wheel

The rules in the NHL are f***ed when we have video replay and something like Duchene's goal still counts.

I respect Cleary for what he's given this team over the years but I'm at the point now where I'd trade him for a couple of LA's Ice-girls. some pictures of LA's Ice-Girls.

The NHL owes Nashville a public apology for that debacle.

Well, you could say, "You know esteef, you are absolutely right about this and the next time I see Matt Cooke on the street I'm gonna kick the living s*** out of him." But in lieu of that I guess I'll take a difference of opinion. esteef

Honestly they're f***ed when there's 4 officials on the ice and that goal still counts.

There was no Rafalski, it was in 06. I know this because I will never forget Shanahan's reaction when Dats scored the OT winner with tenths of a second left. 12/23/05, it turns out: NHL.com's highlights http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20052006,2,519〈=en Ill never forget, I had a texting service for NHL games at this time, I looked at the score 0-2 with a minute left. Naturally I assumed it was over. I had no idea what had happened until I got home much later. Awesome.

If he went chasing the flavor of the month every year like San Jose does you'd be happy. BUT look at San Jose, they have depleated their prospects to the point where their prosepect are LAST in the NHL. But hey, they always seem to land the hot commodity. A hell of a price to pay. Mortgage the future for the flavor of the month.. LOL We could probably get a top D man for Nyquist, Tartar, Smith, etc. No thanks.

Do you really think Holland is going to come out in his pressers and say exactly what you want him to say? GM's dont answer to us , they answer to their boss. He's GM for a reason and whether you like his decisions or hate them the bottom line is that without him, we wouldnt have cup expectations year in and year out. The Wings brass know what the pulse of the team and their needs are and we all have our opinions as to that as well. Its fun to rant and expouse all of our personal NHL GM experience but we could be 15-0 right now and plenty of you debbie downers would still be moaning and wanting Hollanfs head on a stick and ***** how hes doing it by luck or others peoples hard work. Way I see it is that the 'rules' keep changing and the field of play has been leveled and still the Wings are in the hunt. 60 minutes of hockey is all this team needs....I dont have the answer as to how to get it...Players decide how hard and if they want to compete...bot GM's.

What? The kid played one good game and is arguable the future of goaltending for this franchise but he was terrible yesterday..when Jimmy plays bad you blame Jimmy but when Mraz plays bad it's the d in front of him. I know I know you drink your own blend of cool aid but Mraz belongs back in the minors for now.he will get his shot.

I'd feel better if we had one star player under the age of 30, who I could see leading the Wings into the future.

Ah yes, the classic "It's not Holland's fault!" excuse. Like there were no better d-men to be had via trade or free agency that were better than Quincey or Colieakmsxkndnhdsvo. Poor old Holland. I mean Lids and Stuart leaving were a complete surprise to him. As you said though, at least Brunner has worked out so far, which again is because of a scout and not through Holland's trade prowess or draft genius. Holland's real good at finding pieces that nobody really wants and hoping they turn it around in Detroit, but he hasn't competed against other teams for a top talent and won in a long time, and it's become painfully obvious. esteef

I'm not going to panic. This team is about what I expected so far: average and wildly inconsistent. They will probably be fighting for a playoff spot all season and won't advance far, should they get in at all. It's somewhat easier to swallow if you can just accept that our hockey team is mediocre. Trust me, it's frustrating to admit at times personally, but I think realistically most of us saw this coming. The expectations in this city are insanely high and rightfully so given the standards of success this organization has achieved recently. Watching Z, Datsyuk and Brunner now is fun at least. I want management to give the kids an expanded role the rest of this season to see what we have for the future. These Red Wings are not championship quality and Cleary, Samuelsson and Bertuzzi have no place in years to come. At least they shouldn't if the front office would embrace playing some prospects more. It would be nice to see what a healthy roster could accomplish. However, I still have my doubts of their ceiling as they won one playoff game last year with Lidstrom and Stuart around. There are parts I like about this group of players, but it seems to be overall severely lacking an identity and the rest of the league has caught up or surpassed Detroit in the skill department. This off-season will be crucial. I don't think there needs to be a complete rebuild, but some significant retooling has to take place if the Red Wings want to seriously contend in the near future again.

Unfortunately, the biggest culprits in the recent losses are not the "green" kids from GR or the players we are missing to injury. As players get healthy, we'll start to replace young and energetic players who have been great in their replacement roles, instead of the lackluster veterans who are guaranteed roster spots under this staff. Look at tonight, we have two players rotate in, Samuelsson and Huskins for two players that have played pretty good, Nyquist and Kindl. The energy of Nyquist was replaced with Cleary 2.0. This will continue, and while the Wings have players like Bertuzzi, Franzen, Helm, and Smith which will benefit the group, their impacts are diminished by the fact that we are not replacing the problem players but rather players who have really earned their ice time. Tatar for Bertuzzi is a wash the way Tots is playing. Smith's return will likely lead to the demotion of the steady Lashoff. The problem players like Cleary, Quincey, and White will remain. The lineup is weak, and it won't be as simple as replacing negatives with positives, more like replacing positives with other positives. Bertuzzi (+1) replacing Tatar (+1) is a wash. If Bertuzzi (+1) was replacing Cleary (-2) that would be a completely different story (+3). That's how I think about it anyways...

Look, I still think the Wings will make the playoffs but that's what scares me. Obviously Holland would think nothing is broken and go into next season with the same roster with minor tweaks. Its almost like maybe missing the playoffs would make them rethink about their roster. After 20 years of greatness, its gonna take alot to get a stubborn Holland and Co. to really blow up the roster from older players.

I thought about leaving the original word in for the fun of it, Haha.

Sometimes I really wonder if the people on these forums actually watch the games? Which is why I don't ever hardly look here anymore. Seems like you guys are all wanna be hockey fans, just flick the game on and buy jerseys so you can be cool and have something to talk about. Ian White is a turn over machine, not only does he turn the puck over but he does at the absolute worst spots and times. I can't even keep track of how many times past two years I have seen him turn the puck over in the defensive zone for no reason and resulted in a goal. No other player on the Wings roster does it as consistant as White. The guy is no good. All you bitching about Big Rig, Really?? Now this guy has been solid, probably one of our best back there. I shouldn't even say that, you guys ***** about every single player right? Unless they get 100 points a season, don't go more than one game without points, are + 100.... Jesus christ you guys are a bunch of clowns. Finally being forced to bring up our young guys is the best thing that has happened to this team in years. Just wait to see how it pays off for us over the next couple seasons.

Like him or hate him the Wings needed a player like him on this team. If he chips in a few points, keeps the flies off, and rattles the teeth of some d-men on the fore check then what more do you want.

Yeah ok, with 2 defenseman injured, let's sit White.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had to go back and see if I voiced my opinion. Too bad I didn't. I could now be doing the "neener neener neener toldyaso toldyaso toldyaso neener neener neener" chant. That said, I have respect for those who will change their opinions when taking into consideration new evidence, and also for those who will stick to their guns as long as they're willing to consider new evidence. It's a matter of liking or not liking. Opinions are like noses: Everyone has one, but you can only pick your own. My opinion? I like Tootoo.

Holland would probably pick him up off waives forgetting that he placed him there!

RECENT: losing hossa for franzen trading for quincey re-signing sammy holding onto vets too long