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Yes, that's the real problem around here... kip's first language is logic.

@JasonGregor: MacT admits they went after Dekeyser last summer. Met him for dinner and had great meeting, but his licence plate had Red Wings on it. @JasonGregor: "That was not a good sign for us," laughed MacTavish about DeKeyser's licence plate. #Oilers

You don't want any washed up players yet you are pining for Manny Legace and Martin Brodeur over a goalie that a large portion of the fanbase thought should be starting over Howard last season? Perhaps our odds are increased because kids have finally taken the jobs of veterans and because our remaining kids are ranked as the 2nd best group of prospects in the league? Gustavsson is just fine as a back-up goalie and the only option out there better is Vokoun who would likely want a long term deal relegating Mrazek to the AHL for a lot longer than he will be now. As long as Gus or anyone else they sign gets only a 1 year deal to be the back-up its great for the Wings future.

Think back to the ones with the lame staged fights.

I eyeball tested Sproul, and he's not ready, trust me

ITS ALL SO CLEAR NOW

I'll do the same as far as numbering goes. #1: I don't think he's got leaps and bounds more knowledge than Kronwall does, but I think that if you look at both careers, Boyle is superior offensively. Now is that in part because San Jose has been an offensive juggernaut for years/Kronwall was playing on a second pairing? More than likely, but I still think he's got some great offensive knowledge that can be passed onto the kids, namely Smith, Sproul, Ouellet and Jensen. #2: I think we look at defense cores differently. Maybe it's just me, but I see teams using a balance going forward now, with all the parity in the league. While I do think there can be monster top pairings, (Keith-Seabrook, Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo, Markov-Subban) I think that the league in general is getting away from stacking players, and going more for balance. In our case, while I think DeKeyser has a lot to offer going forward, I'm not sure he should be counted on for his own pairing. I think balanced minutes and balanced pairings are the way to go in the league, now. Kronwall-Smith, DeKeyser-Boyle, Ericsson-Sporul/Marchenko. I don't think that's a demotion to Ericsson - rather, I feel like he's being put in charge of his own pairing and helping to balance out a rookie. Boyle would be doing the same for DeKeyser, as Kronwall does for Smith. #3: I can see the argument in the second year of Boyle's (potential) deal. I wouldn't want to see a NHL-ready Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko sitting in GR, either. I think someone (Dickie Dunn?) has mentioned that Lashoff is essentially the perfect 7th guy. He's cheap, still young and not good enough that he should be threatening for a top 6 spot with any merit. I wouldn't want to see any of those guys with potential wasted, either. That being said, we have another problem without factoring Boyle into the mix. We've got Kronwall, Ericsson locked up, and Smith and DeKeyser as probable keepers moving forward. Trying to shove Sproul, Ouellet, Backman, Marchenko, etc into the mix... there's clearly a logjam. In a perfect world, I'd move Smith as part of a deal for a legitimate top pairing guy in his prime, but that's another story and pipe dream in my estimation. #4: I'd have no issue with Robidas, if that's what I thought this team needed. To be totally honest, I'm not even that high on Dan Boyle (believe it or not). I just think that given our set of circumstances, he's the most beneficial and realistic option for this off season. Niskanen is going to cost too much (term and salary), Gilbert is a poor man's PP specialist, the kids aren't there YET, etc. The team needs a PP boost, a right-handed shot and someone to help get the puck up ice. Right now I think Dan Boyle fits that need. I don't think we're that far off on the logic here, either. I can see your argument, and I agree with our differing opinions on Boyle value. I also think we have differing philosophies when it comes to the next step for the team, but as you've said, I can see both sides of it.

All these people saying we don't need Boyle because that won't win us a cup are like a broken record. Does adding Boyle guarantee us a cup? Obviously no. But what player is really out there that could do that? We have to start somewhere to fill our needs and I think he fills two of this teams needs immediately. Right handed shot....puck moving defenseman. End of story.

So then C) Acquire Boyle and allow him to pass on knowledge (not just faith) to the kids, helping along their ability to become impact players isn't an option? Ok, I guess. It's easy to say there's no combination of Boyle + prospects that help us compete for a Cup, but I don't feel that to be true. At the very least, I'm not going to write off a team that suffered all the injuries that they did this past year. Nor do I think that signing Boyle would be conceding to failure - rather, it would be preparing the kids better. I feel like the argument being presented is working in extremes. "We go for the cup, or we let the kids sink/swim. Signing Boyle means we're giving up." I can kind of see the basis for your argument, but at the same time I don't see at all how singing a PP specialist, vet is going to hurt the process of creating solid defenders out of Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, etc. I personally think that having two of those three guys in the line-up, next season, is rushing things a bit. They've all had one year in GR. As far as the whole 5 million tag, the last thing this team needs to worry about is the cap. They're comfortable, and the RFA's who need to be signed aren't going to take up that big of a chunk.

When Babcock has had a pure fighter in Detroit the guy barely played. Why get an old guy that forces a young still improving player out just so he can play 5 minutes a night in maybe 50 games then not sniff the ice in the playoffs?

How is he going to help the kids any more than the vets we already have? We're not Edmonton, we've got tons of highly successful veterans on our team. And also, anything you gain in that regard is offset by the fact that he's old, slow, small, and even in his best years was only ok at actually playing defense.

Agreed. So rather that do something just to do it, why not give the spot to the most deserving kids and let them gain valuable experience which WILL help us in the future. Lord knows what 82 games under Babcock's tutelage would do for Ryan Sproul's development.

Ahh the old showing up to play homage that LGW bestows on players that apparently Babcock hasn't noticed. We're a much worse team without Franzen. I don't get why every player gets a pass on last season when comparing stats (datsyuk, zetterberg) because of our miserable injury plagued season except for Franzen. You don't buy out legitimate top 6 players that have good contracts. LGW: "we need two more top 6 players. Let's buy out Franzen and just buy 3 more. It's been really easy to acquire talent lately"

I agree. Right now, everything you read is bs because nothing can realistically happen (besides a few players being bought out) until the draft next week. I do feel that there is that fine line also. Part of me would love for management to go 'screw it', kids all the way, and stick Mantha, Jurco up from the beginning along with Mrazek, Sproul and Ouellet. And then the other half of me wants KH to go and acquire a top end D man or a forward with some size and grit. All we can really do is wait and speculate. I know 3/4 of this forum wants to go and tear down the Joe because of the Cleary news, but maybe we could focus on the positives coming up next week?

I'm not really surprised, never saw Nashville as the kind of team where he would be a good fit. I hope he finds a home in the NHL though, he's a solid player and if I was the GM of a team like Edmonton, NYI, Ottawa, Buffalo etc. I wouldn't hesitate to pick him up.

I'm going to reserve my frustration, depression, loss of will to live, rage towards Ken Holland's existence till after July 1st. We've got the draft upcoming - June 27, 28. Compliance buyouts that can happen until June 30th and Free Agency that begins on the first. This is a frustrating two weeks where the Finals are over and almost nothing but speculation can happen. So, let's all take a deep breath and collect ourselves. Some of us are beginning to sound like frantic lunatics. Some of us are already there. Hell, maybe the site needs to change it's name for the week. "LetsAllBreathe" /voice of reason speech

I really liked Eaves. He worked hard and just seemed like an all-around nice guy. Plus, he is (was?) the only Wing that I have an autograph from I hope he can find a place somewhere and have a productive, healthy season.

i was pissed when i heard eaves was out for leggy. he worked his butt off for the wings. we could put him in for andersson and he would deliver more points, better defensive zone coverage.(prob better faceoff % too.) but i think i heard he was in babs doghouse most of the time. good luck patty...may the force be with you. (and reuben)

What a load of s***. So, you're arguing for the sake of arguing? Don't waste your time if you're gonna spout baseless arguments. We're definitely not the elite of the NHL anymore, but we're a few pieces away from being serious contenders again. Whether Ken actually brings those key pieces here remains to be seen, but you act like we're the Edmonton Oilers.

And there's a reason my point is obvious. Trading away your franchise player and captain for an overhyped draft pick isn't a calculated risk, it's NHL 14 fantasy la la land.

Agreed. I wouldn't even care if they sucked*, just seeing those names on the back of a Wings jersey again would make me cry, laugh, get a LadyBoner and find religion. *I would totally care if they sucked.

This is how I imagine the talks are going thus far...

MY LATEST VIDEO OF THE HOLY SLAPPER: TEEMU PULKKINEN HIS GOALS SO FAR IN HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER. (Finland&US)

http://instagram.com/p/pOhHeAxI1Y/# Jello, baby.