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SHL is arguably better than AHL, it's definitely a different challenge and lower scoring. I think you are jumping through hoops to make Veleno's performance seem worse than it is. A lot of those guys are actually in their 3rd pro season, and even those who are only in their 2nd pro season are better adapted to big ice and the SHL style of hockey. Whatever.. I guess if Veleno has a few lucky bounces and gets some secondary assists, he's suddenly "dominating" lol..

He also had elite grey hair

1. Seider 2. Raymond 3. Zadina 4. Bergrren 5. Neiderbach 6. Johannson 7. Rasmussen 8. Veleno 9. Tuomisto 10. Wallinder

Yes, in relation to peewee players, I'd likely be elite haha. I'd say Veleno is one of our B-teir prospects

If Veleno is 1 of our better prospects - we're in trouble.

He´s tied for fourth, which is still fourth and in ppg he´s not even tied, so stop splitting hairs to keep an argument going where you have nothing relevant to say apart from bashing one of our better prospects.

No policing. Just making a point. I value the opinion of people that actually watch the games over people that just check the stat sheet. LOL coming from the guy that claimed Athanasiou was better than Larkin. Let's go back and rehash all the dumb things you've said over the years. But hey, props for not mentioning Jurco... Also, if I recall, I was one of the first on the Hronek bandwagon. I remember saying that about Saarijarvi when everyone jumped on his bandwagon, but not Hronek...

Yeah his scoring really took off once they moved him to the wing. Definitely evidence that he's going to be a good NHL center one day. Totally. If you're going to throw out his first 10 games in an effort to make the case that he's actually playing well, then you should probably include the fact most of his scoring has come after he was moved to an easier position. Whatever man, Drew Miller had "elite" penalty killing ability and it's about time his "eliteness" was recognized for what it was. And don't you DARE question it. He's clearly more elite than a college player bro.

If one has to pick and choose elite aspects of a players game such as having elite skating, or having elite vision, or ever having to use the term borderline elite period, odds are said player just straight up isn't elite. The best baseball players are considered 5-tool players for a reason. They excel at all aspects. That's elite. When determining if a player is elite or not, it should be trying to find reasons they are not elite. Not trying to find reasons why they are.

You make TONS of outrageous claims about prospects. You once said that Jared Coreau had NHL starting goalie upside. You said Hronek would never be more than 3rd pairing dman. So it's not my job to intuit which of your takes is hyperbole and which is just bad judgement. And stop acting like a victim, you said it, and you're currently doubling down on it (to some degree) by claiming that ALL NHLers are elite compared to other players. So own it.

I've watched quite a few SHL games, watching the Rogle vs Malmo game now. Veleno has looked good from what I've seen. Euro posters that have also watched him play, echo the same sentiment. He's looked good on a bad team. Then there are posters that haven't watched him, and only look at stats, citing his poor +/- as evidence that he's not good...

Oh no! Not a perhaps maybe could also be for training camp reasons groin injury. Those are the worst.

B as in will likely be a reliable middle six player who plays in the NHL for a lot of years. Likely a career 3rd liner, but will have 2 or 3 seasons in his prime where he puts up second line #'s. I'm thinking Kris Draper-level. Draper was a pretty damn important player for a lot of years.

Agreed. 'B' as in borderline NHL/AHL player.

Yep. This here is basic Covid Hockey 101 stuff.

There is no out clause in an SHL contract. All of Seider, Raymond, Berggren, Veleno, Brome, etc. have to stay in Sweden until their respective teams are finished.

Fair enough. I admitted that "elite" may have been a poor word choice, and explained what I meant (should have been clear without explanation), but kip and co. will go on and on about how Veleno isn't elite because of x, y, and z. Well, no s***... To be fair, if you were in Peewee, and you were among the best players in the league, an elite Peewee player would be perfectly acceptable in my opinion...

Trump's his hero. What else would you expect?

He is fourth in scoring with 4 games less an Malmö´s roster, so you should probably check first before spreading "news".

All but three of the aforementioned players are Swedes playing in their home country and I´m not a 100% sure if there´s such a big difference between the AHL and SHL. You also accidently forgot to mention that he plays on the worst team and that if you take his first ten games away, as a kind of adjustment period, you get a completly different picture.

Oh I agree Veleno will never be Elite. If he had Elite upside he would have never fallen to Detroit in the draft. Larkin will never be Elite either. He will be really good for a lot of years. But Elite? Nah. Veleno will likely provide a lot of important minutes down the middle for the Wings. But yeah, the word Elite gets thrown around far too casually these days. Between the last two drafts and the next, we need two or three Elite guys to emerge in the worst way. There is some potential on the Blueline and wing, but God damn we need a center with the first round pick next year.

You said undrafted. Definitely don't think it's realistic to assume Veleno should dominate high-end draft picks that project as potential all-stars. Even if he's a little older. In terms of pro experience, Veleno isn't really more experienced than most of those names, and he's on by far the worst team of any of them. As someone who has actually watched all those guys play this year I wouldn't say Veleno is being outperformed by most. It's not as easy as "1 point more"= much better performance overall. edit: keep in mind the only player who is really "dominating" on the scoresheet (among forwards) is Berggren. And if Berggren keeps his production up it'll be one of the best U21 seasons in SHL history. If that's your baseline expectation for a prospect we're hoping to get a 2nd line center from, I'm not sure what to say. Pretty much all the other guys are close enough that 3-4 games of going cold/hot can completely change how their production looks.

All this talk about licking balls and slapping peepees is making me uncomfortable.

Comparing this situation to what we received for Staal is fair, because that's exactly the type of trade Yzerman should be pursuing. We don't need the team to improve in the short term with Johnson and Killorn. We need the team to improve in the long term with future assets. BriseBois isn't willing to pay up a 1st, plus, plus, to get out of cap hell? Fine, move onto the next team that needs to shed cap space. There are many other options out there. Again, we don't have to make a move. Tampa does. As much as you like to mock, Yzerman does have full control.

But yet you're willing to take on $9,450,000 between Johnson and Killorn for the next 3 years for only a measly 2nd round pick, That's pretty much giving Tampa a free get out of cap hell pick right there. Why would any sane GM give them a break?