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Wings Make Offer to Danny D!

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Andrew Walker @fan960walker 6m

Breaking: #Flames GM Jay Feaster along with Hartley -enroute today to meet with highly sought after NCAA free agent Dan Dekeyser (West Mich)

I don't think Danny is stupid enough to sign with Calgary after what just happened lol

There are only two competitors which I really "fear" the Bolts because of Stevie Y and of course the Predators, having the chance to learn from Weber shouldn't be underestimated although I hate this guy.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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I don't buy the "making the team worse" argument, nor the cap argument. First of all, especially last year, when all was said and done, we still had $4.5 million in cap space. But even in years before last, guys that likely would've been moved to make a trade happen would have balanced out most of the cap issues. And while I don't think you could say that making a trade that ships out talent for talent would make the team better immediately, I don't think it'd make them so much worse either. It probably would have been even then, with a stronger defense but somewhat weaker offense. But it'd make the blow of losing your top three defensemen over the course of one year much easier to swallow. Again, I'm not talking about just replacing Lidstrom, but also Rafalski and Stuart. Holland didn't even find a way to bring in a Stuart-level guy. I don't wholly disagree with some of what you're saying, and I'm not trying to suggest that perfection is the only option, but I absolutely am saying that if Holland was a truly great cap-era GM, I don't think he would've had the number and the magnitude of gaffs that he's had since really running up against the cap crunch. And don't take it from me, take it from him! He blatantly admitted that he was shocked and unprepared for what happened in the off-season in the summer of 2009. It's been much of the same drill each off-season since then, only getting worse in some ways as the seasons go by.

And to be clear, I'm fine with having a year or two or even more of struggle to get things right. If we have to field a weaker team in order to sign better guys for awhile as we sort out this transition and evolve, so be it. What bothers me most about Holland's approach is that he's seemed content to change as little as possible because the team with the core of Dats, Z and Lidstrom was generally going to be good enough to at least make the playoffs. But now Lidstrom's gone, and while the core is still strong, it hardly makes the team infallible. If heaven forbid we do lose Datsyuk in 15 months, and three months later we start the season having not addressed yet another hole in any meaningful way, will it still be excusable?

Pittsburgh landed Iginla tonight. Doesn't guarantee them anything, but we weren't even on Iginla's list according to most. No matter what you think of the deal or the other teams or how it might play out, that we weren't even a real part of the conversation is very telling of the status of our team. And again, I'd be fine with that status if it actually felt like we were building to something. But it doesn't, at all. We're just getting old and tired. As opposed to paying dues, we're just eeking by.

You're very obviously nowhere close to "fine" with struggling.

Being a weaker team is typically how you land those better players. Getting superstars to build around typically requires being very bad for a time. It's not that Holland is content or doesn't want to change anything. It's that you can't spin straw into gold. He could spin some straw into some different straw, and maybe that would make you happy as it would at least be something to talk about, but it wouldn't make any real difference.

Yes, when Rafalski retired we got some cap space, after having none for two years. In hindsight, Holland might have given up a pick for a chance to talk to Wisniewski or Ehrhoff. Would either really make us any better? Make the future any brighter? Knowing he wouldn't get Suter, he probably goes harder after other options. Would Wideman or Carle really make that much difference?

To build, you need something to build on. The struggles we're having now and will likely have in the near future is how we'll find that foundation.

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Exactly the reason, why some people (like me) would love to see this team being sellers at the tradedeadline.

Frank, you and I have had our differences, but I agree with you.

The Wings playoff streak is nice, but I would rather see the Wings really compete every few years than just make the playoffs and die in the first or second round every year. The problem is that Wings fans as a whole would hate to see them tank for 2-3 years just to rebuild.

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I imagine Pittsburgh might be a destination for him. They're making big splashes to bolster their offense, and they need more defensive depth, don't they? Playing with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Iginla for years might be a stronger draw than just Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

And on the note about off-season trades, last year we can't really blame Holland. There just wasn't much to pick from. But he has been too hesitant to trade pieces. Our prospects are all solid and will be great solid players, but he should have been more aggressive pursuing options for top-end talent. We talk about how it's so unlikely that big players move these days, but the fact is, they do. Not as much as they used to, but they do get moved.

In the old days Holland would find these out of nowhere trades. Here's what happened:

In 2010, we had a good team, but the hockey gods destroyed our team health and we couldn't do anything. So Holland figured: We didn't get to see our team in action, let's give them another chance. Fair enough.

In 2011, we were decimated by injuries to key players once more, and maybe he still wanted to get healthy and give them a shot.

But sometime between early 2012 and 2013, it's like he stopped trying. We can't use the "we like our team when they get healthy" as an excuse anymore, I don't think. He brought in Quincey as a desperation move, but he wouldn't have been forced to do that had be moved earlier for a defenseman. Complacency set in among the players, and Holland settled into a "wait and see" approach which doesn't satisfy anyone. That is the history of the Wings since 2010 and it's frustrating. Losing in '99, '00 and '01 pushed him into high gear to win the Cup. Losing in '09, '10, '11, and '12 doesn't seem to have lit a fire under him. And it's not the cap. He's good enough at maneuvering and finding talent. He doesn't need to go for the obvious choices, but I find it hard to believe no one wanted to trade with us for four years, except for Quincey.

We can talk about how people overpay for players, but the reality is if you need that player, you pay whatever you need to. He never seriously tried to repair the defense since Rafalski left, and Smith was still years away and Kindl was underperforming. I'm not a Holland basher, and I have faith in him, but fans frustrations aren't entirely unfounded.

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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but why is everyone calling for us to be sellers and rebuild?


You have Paterson and Mrazek as two big time goalie prospects with a youngish starter in Howard.

If Dekeyser signs in Detroit, they'll have Smith, Kindl, Sproul, Backman, Ouellet, and Dekeyser all just hitting or in the middle of their prime in 4-5 years (not to mention Kronwall, Ericsson, and Quincey as potentially very good veterans at that point).

On offense, we have prospects who should be major contributors in 4-5 years like Andersson, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Frk, Jurco, Nyquist, Tatar, and possibly McKee if he switches to LW like I've seen people on here say he should. This is in addition to Zetterberg, Helm, Brunner, Abdelkader, and Emmerton. Datsyuk and Franzen could potentially be here in 5 years, but I doubt it.

Anyway, the point of this post is to say that assuming the Red Wings get 0 prospects, 0 big trades, 0 superstar UFAs, and their current prospects develop as projected, the Red Wings will still be very good (especially defensively and in net). The Wings should be buyers, not sellers. They should go for Dekeyser and a top 6 winger for the Datsyuk-Franzen line. If they get healthy and 1 big forward, they'll be in the conversation with Anaheim and Chicago. We don't need a rebuild; we already have one of the best farm systems in the league today.

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For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan… it’s taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where he’s going to play…

I'm sure he's already made up his mind. He's had a long time to think about this, it's not like he's just started to think about this last weekend. It's a 23 year old kid deciding where to buy his first house and potentially settle in to adulthood. Nobody's going to swoop in and hard-sell him away from his plan. It's like others have said, he's just enjoying the star treatment and why not? He's been passed over in drafts and this must be an exciting time.

frankgrimes and Rick D like this

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I'm sure he's already made up his mind. He's had a long time to think about this, it's not like he's just started to think about this last weekend. It's a 23 year old kid deciding where to buy his first house and potentially settle in to adulthood. Nobody's going to swoop in and hard-sell him away from his plan. It's like others have said, he's just enjoying the star treatment and why not? He's been passed over in drafts and this must be an exciting time.

I agree completely

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Frank, you and I have had our differences, but I agree with you.

The Wings playoff streak is nice, but I would rather see the Wings really compete every few years than just make the playoffs and die in the first or second round every year. The problem is that Wings fans as a whole would hate to see them tank for 2-3 years just to rebuild.

I don't know that too many ppl are screaming for a complete rebuild and I don't know that even what you're saying (tanking for 2-3 yrs) is even necessary. To me, the Wings aren't legi contenders right now so things like defensive depth going into the playoffs shouldn't be a huge factor for them. Personally, I would like to see them makes some trades of depth players (i.e. White, Colo, Huskins, and even maybe some of the depth forwards) that way they get assets (draft picks) in return (since at the deadline these depth players are more valuable) plus it frees up roster flexibility this summer.

I think we are used to the Wings being contenders (whether they truly were in previous years or not, the mind set was that they were) so we're not used to moving roster players. So now, if the Wings do move roster players it implies tanking/rebuilding. But so long as you core is in tact I wouldnt consider it tanking.

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For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan its taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where hes going to play

Yep, I don't get the circus act when the other few NCAA players that were sought after signed quietly on Monday or Tuesday.

Dominator2005 likes this

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Yep, I don't get the circus act when the other few NCAA players that were sought after signed quietly on Monday or Tuesday.

Proabably has to do with the fact that not all 30 teams were interested as much in those other players that have signed.

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If he were to sign here, would he even play with Datsyuk? by the time he gets up here, Dats will be a year or two away from retirement (say it ain't so!) but he is closer to the end of the road than the beginning. How can you even use that as an incentive? Whereas a young team like Pittsburgh will have all of those same players when he comes up. We don't have young superstars like that.

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That is a ridiculous standard, and if you were to apply it to any other GM in the history of any sport you're not going to find even one you think is adequate.

In the span of a few seasons we lost Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull, Robitaille, Fischer, Larionov, Hasek, among others, plus maybe the best coach of all time. Chelios went from a Norris candidate to depth player, Draper and Maltby from invaluable role-players to guys filling out the roster. We'd lost in the first round, second round, and first round. We had a lot of good prospects and could afford to lose some. Plus we made the transition to the cap era.

Holland made some moves, some were decent, some not so much. We signed some cast-offs that no one else wanted, brought up some young guys, signed one big UFA. It worked and we won a Cup. It wasn't luck that we had a bunch of cheap guys. It's what you have to do in the cap era. Then we had to start paying guys and trying to fill the rest of the roster with bargains. Some of those guys were decent, some not so much.

It's just not reasonable to expect that we should have had a replacement for Lidstrom before he left. The only way to get that is to get lucky, either with a prospect or someone else's cast off. If you want someone already proven, you would have had to give up a lot to get them, and we couldn't have fit them under the cap. We would have had to make the team worse in previous years. Maybe in hindsight you can say they should have, because we haven't done much in the playoffs anyway, but really you all would have just been bitching about mismanagement back then.

Some people are completely backward in thinking that the biggest needs, the biggest losses, should be the easiest to fill. Fact is, those holes have the fewest available options and the least margin for error. That's why almost no one, in any sport, in any era in history, has much success filling them without a hitch.

Nothing Holland could have done would have been better than landing Suter and Parise (particularly since we wouldn't have had to give up anything), and he put us in position to make a strong play for both of them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. But we're still in a good position to add more, and we still have a well stocked prospect pool. Maybe, probably even, things will get worse before they get better. That's the nature of the beast. We need stars and those almost always come through the draft. Once we have our next generation of stars, then will come the time to start making trades and looking for a good UFA or two to put us over the top. Hopefully at that time, some of the young prospects we have now will emerge to fill some roles at bargain prices.

Sure, we could make a move or two now and it might work out. Or not. Look at the Rangers, Philly, San Jose... Maybe Holland could have done better. But who actually has?

Pittsburgh? Cup winner, last three years lost in the 2nd, 1st, and 1st round. Found some nice fits at forwards, including one absolute steal of a trade, wrecked their defense. Looking good this year, maybe they'll go somewhere, maybe not. Their best players can't stay healthy, probably going to have cap troubles again in a couple years.

Chicago? Cup winner, sat watching the TV hoping for Dallas to lose to put them in the playoffs the following year. Two first round losses. Looking good this year... Likely cap trouble again next year.

Boston? Cup winner, lost in the first round last year. Looking good... maybe some cap trouble next year.

LA? Cup winner, had to fight down to the wire to make the playoffs, likely the same this year. About $15M to fill almost half their roster next year...

Anaheim? Doing great this year after plenty of struggles since their Cup win. Big commitments to their stars likely to create some cap issues down the road...

Anyone else...

Pretty much all that separates us from any of them is they have young stars while ours are aging. Most of them were irrelevent not long ago, and will likely end up back there before too long. Come back when their stars are aging and see how much better they do than Holland. I bet none of them do half so well.

What Holland has already done proves that he's a great GM. He's had some luck, and a great staff to work with, but he's still been great. No matter how successfully we make it through our current transition or the next.

the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation.

Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up

he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player.

he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that

he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07

these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves.

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the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation.

Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up

he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player.

he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that

he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07

these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves

These were all moves while Scotty was right there beside Kenny. Come on, it is weird, isn't it?

Serratoni and Hockeymom1960 like this

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the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation.

Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up

he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player.

he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that

he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07

these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves.

Stuart was never our #2

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Stuart was never our #2

matter of opinion, but he was definitely one of our most valuable dman when rafalski's play started to deteriorate.

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If he were to sign here, would he even play with Datsyuk? by the time he gets up here, Dats will be a year or two away from retirement (say it ain't so!) but he is closer to the end of the road than the beginning. How can you even use that as an incentive? Whereas a young team like Pittsburgh will have all of those same players when he comes up. We don't have young superstars like that.

I assume youre talking about Dekeyser. Its been mentioned here that the rumours are that he has been promised an NHL job right away.

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These were all moves while Scotty was right there beside Kenny. Come on, it is weird, isn't it?

Bowman was a terrible GM, he is the best coach in the history of the game but one of the worst GM's ever.

He actually attempted to trade Yzerman for Yashin but thankfully Holland and Co. killed that.

Besides Scotty was kept on as an adviser to the coach, he had no say on the general managing of the team.

evilmrt likes this

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Yeah, the Yzerman thing....ugh....okay, I cannot argue with that.

Bowman was a terrible GM, he is the best coach in the history of the game but one of the worst GM's ever.

He actually attempted to trade Yzerman for Yashin but thankfully Holland and Co. killed that.

Besides Scotty was kept on as an adviser to the coach, he had no say on the general managing of the team.

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Exactly the reason, why some people (like me) would love to see this team being sellers at the tradedeadline.

The good thing about selling guys as well is the teams buying want roster players to add depth, and while not all of us like the guys and see their value, guys like White, Quincey, Cleary etc could fit in with other teams plans. If it were up to me, my trading block would include: Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton, White, Quincey, Samuelsson, Huskins, Coliacovo and Mursak and I'd accept draft picks. Stock pile the picks and hope for the best, cause our trading partners still aren't lining up by the looks of it.

Edited by Z Winged Dangler

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Proabably has to do with the fact that not all 30 teams were interested as much in those other players that have signed.

Or it could be this is the only person this board is focused on after being hyped for months by LeftWinger.

I also find it funny that it's now considered a circus act to take a couple days to think about where you want to play.

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