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Hockeytown0001

Official NHL Trade Deadline thread

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Glad we didn't get pomminville, wild got fleeced.

Yes. Granlund, Brodin, and Coyle all as prospects and the Wild got fleeced. They had a few elite prospects to give and acquired a heart-and-soul guy who scores goals. Totally different situation. Young, hyper-talented, deep, and on the rise. They are a legit Cup contender and they added to an already solid team.

This is actually one time where I actually think the best thing for us might have been to do nothing. Getting Bert, Sammy, and Helm back is literally like adding a third line. That's roughly 13-16 minutes of ice time every night. I have to believe that much ice time with players as good as they are will increase scoring or at the very least, play much more in the other teams end. The cost is just too high right now for rental players who would likely have only a minimal effect.

With that said, I do believe the salary cap has revealed that Holland is not the magician he was made out to be all these years.

Relying on Bert, Sammy and Helm for offense...

That about explains how bad things have gotten.

Interesting point in the last sentence.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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Relying on Bert, Sammy and Helm for offense...

That about explains how bad things have gotten.

Interesting point in the last sentence.

You sure love to be a downer don't you?

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Give me a break that you're insinuating that I think Scotty had anything to do with the drafting of those player. You don't think Scotty had a hand in the massively retooling that included many of those players listed? Everyone here thought the Hawks handcuffed themselves into a cap space disaster with their all in cap run yet here are 3 years later the class of the league with their entire core intact + Hossa.

It doesn't take a genius to bring in role players and sign Hossa to a discount. If it took getting Scotty to do that then I hope the Blackhawks sign me up to take his place for half the price. Fact is, their entire core was in place before Bowman took a job there.

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finally the meltdown seems to be subsiding, and all the crazy people are reverting back to normal. People are actual starting to realize that the deals made today in most part were over payments, aside from Gaborik, who is under performing for a very high cap hit, so they can have him. People seem to slip into a blind rage around here every time something they don't like happens

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You sure love to be a downer don't you?

What's there to be all sunshine-y about? The team isn't that good and is going to get worse before it gets any better. We don't have a truly high-end prospect to look forward to. A bunch of good ones, but no true stars. We're headed for a top-10 pick in the near future. Hope we spend it well.

This season is headed to the golf course. It just depends on how early or late the tee-time is. There aren't any FA's that fit our immediate needs and there will be many re-signings from that already-weak class between now and when free agency opens. We have very few truly NHL-ready prospects and Datsyuk and Zetterberg aren't getting any younger.

Accepting reality means being a downer when the organization is the way it is.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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It doesn't take a genius to bring in role players and sign Hossa to a discount. If it took getting Scotty to do that then I hope the Blackhawks sign me up to take his place for half the price. Fact is, their entire core was in place before Bowman took a job there.

Looks like you're missing the point entirely. Regardless if it doesn't take a genius then why hasn't Holland done the same thing with Dats, Z, Flip, Kronwall, and before this year Lidstrom.

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Looks like you're missing the point entirely. Regardless if it doesn't take a genius then why hasn't Holland done the same thing with Dats, Z, Flip, Kronwall, and before this year Lidstrom.

What are you talking about, of course Holland locked up his core. You know how I know that? Because none of them have ever played for another team or even tested free agency. Holland drafted and signed his core. The Hawks did the same long before Scotty Bowman ever got there. What I said was, "it doesn't take a genius to sign role players and Hossa to a discount". Holland signs role players, and signed Hossa to a discount too. Why are you knocking him and making it seem like Bowman's the second coming of Christ?

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We don't have a truly high-end prospect to look forward to. A bunch of good ones, but no true stars. We're headed for a top-10 pick in the near future. Hope we spend it well.

Can you see into the future? Seriously, I have never seen one prospect on any team come out and just dominate in the NHL the first year. All the defense prospects we have are pretty good actually, I have watch some of these players play. There not going to be the next Lidstrom there rookie year but things look promising.

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Can you see into the future? Seriously, I have never seen one prospect on any team come out and just dominate in the NHL the first year. All the defense prospects we have are pretty good actually, I have watch some of these players play. There not going to be the next Lidstrom there rookie year but things look promising.

ovie, malkin, and he who shall not be named are the only prospects that really came out and just kicked straight up ass in their rookie years in the last 10 years

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finally the meltdown seems to be subsiding, and all the crazy people are reverting back to normal. People are actual starting to realize that the deals made today in most part were over payments, aside from Gaborik, who is under performing for a very high cap hit, so they can have him. People seem to slip into a blind rage around here every time something they don't like happens

Its all the contradictory BS that Holland has been feeding the world that gets most of us. He says 'We need to get better via free agency, he s**ts the bed in Free agency. Then he says 'We will explore trades over the summer/during the season/at the deadline to address our needs', come trade deadline he sh*ts the bed again. Now he says 'We need to build around our youth and the draft' and yet, he keeps players like Sammuelson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, et al in the line up at the expense of younger NHL level talent in the minors, and also doesn't trade the tradeable assets to build more youth into the system.

This is enough to make ones head spin. I wish he wouldn't treat the fan base like we are stupid and do what he says for once.

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Its all the contradictory BS that Holland has been feeding the world that gets most of us. He says 'We need to get better via free agency, he s**ts the bed in Free agency. Then he says 'We will explore trades over the summer/during the season/at the deadline to address our needs', come trade deadline he sh*ts the bed again. Now he says 'We need to build around our youth and the draft' and yet, he keeps players like Sammuelson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, et al in the line up at the expense of younger NHL level talent in the minors, and also doesn't trade the tradeable assets to build more youth into the system.

This is enough to make ones head spin. I wish he wouldn't treat the fan base like we are stupid and do what he says for once.

no I get that, trust me I am just as pissed at his bs as anyone else, but I literally just sat back and watched the forums seeing what everyone was saying and some of it was just so ridiculous I was dumbfounded, at one point I was just laughing at peoples comments

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Can you see into the future? Seriously, I have never seen one prospect on any team come out and just dominate in the NHL the first year. All the defense prospects we have are pretty good actually, I have watch some of these players play. There not going to be the next Lidstrom there rookie year but things look promising.

Huberdeau.

Nugent-Hopkins before the injury.

Cory Conacher.

Brad Marchand (first full NHL season, true rookie season).

Jordan Eberle was no slouch.

John Tavares.

What's your definition of "dominate"? Of course rookies aren't going to "dominate", depending on your definition. "Dominate" is a subjective term. Stars? Plenty of those amongst first-year NHLers.

Every prospect we have on D is extremely boom-or-bust. You don't build franchises with feast-or-famine players.

Its all the contradictory BS that Holland has been feeding the world that gets most of us. He says 'We need to get better via free agency, he s**ts the bed in Free agency. Then he says 'We will explore trades over the summer/during the season/at the deadline to address our needs', come trade deadline he sh*ts the bed again. Now he says 'We need to build around our youth and the draft' and yet, he keeps players like Sammuelson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, et al in the line up at the expense of younger NHL level talent in the minors, and also doesn't trade the tradeable assets to build more youth into the system.

This is enough to make ones head spin. I wish he wouldn't treat the fan base like we are stupid and do what he says for once.

I agree to a certain extent. I think it's more his complete and utter failure to acquire anything of real, lasting quality since Hossa that creates it. This fanbase is hungry for a move that gets us going. We want to see a new face and watch him play. I'm included in that crowd. We're out of luck, however, as the rebuild is upon us and there won't be much to cheer for for a few years coming.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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What are you talking about, of course Holland locked up his core. You know how I know that? Because none of them have ever played for another team or even tested free agency. Holland drafted and signed his core. The Hawks did the same long before Scotty Bowman ever got there. What I said was, "it doesn't take a genius to sign role players and Hossa to a discount". Holland signs role players, and signed Hossa to a discount too. Why are you knocking him and making it seem like Bowman's the second coming of Christ?

lol no **** Holland locked the core. What I'm saying is with the core locked the way it is (like Chicago) why hasn't Holland signed the role players neccesary to compete (like Chicago) if it doesn't take a genius to do it? Bowman the second coming? Hardly, but as the all time winningest coach he's about as close as you'll get in hockey terms. I'd show a little more respect to the man that directly brought us 3 cups because without him this franchise as we know it aka Hockeytown would look a LOT different today. Anyways that's about enough hyberbole I want to entertain from you. Beam me up Scotty,

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Why are you knocking him and making it seem like Bowman's the second coming of Christ?

because around here holland is the worst gm in the history of hockey and bowman and yzerman are the best ever

Can you see into the future? Seriously, I have never seen one prospect on any team come out and just dominate in the NHL the first year. All the defense prospects we have are pretty good actually, I have watch some of these players play. There not going to be the next Lidstrom there rookie year but things look promising.

nobody is going to be the next lidstrom. defense prospect pool looks solid. one of, if not the best in the league right now.

Its all the contradictory BS that Holland has been feeding the world that gets most of us. He says 'We need to get better via free agency, he s**ts the bed in Free agency. Then he says 'We will explore trades over the summer/during the season/at the deadline to address our needs', come trade deadline he sh*ts the bed again. Now he says 'We need to build around our youth and the draft' and yet, he keeps players like Sammuelson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, et al in the line up at the expense of younger NHL level talent in the minors, and also doesn't trade the tradeable assets to build more youth into the system.

This is enough to make ones head spin. I wish he wouldn't treat the fan base like we are stupid and do what he says for once.

so it's holland's fault that he missed on parise and suter? exploring trades does not mean that he's 100% guaranteed going to make a trade. exploring means just that, exploring your options. so unless you have inside knowledge of exactly what was going on in holland's office during the summer and trade deadline, you really don't have room to speak. some of you folks put way too much stock into what is said to the media.

now regarding the youth movement issue, there can be no defending holland on that one. samulesson and cleary should not be in the lineup at all. but at least bertuzzi provided some size and grit and is a key player in the shootouts so i can see why holland would want to keep him around.

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Its all the contradictory BS that Holland has been feeding the world that gets most of us. He says 'We need to get better via free agency, he s**ts the bed in Free agency. Then he says 'We will explore trades over the summer/during the season/at the deadline to address our needs', come trade deadline he sh*ts the bed again. Now he says 'We need to build around our youth and the draft' and yet, he keeps players like Sammuelson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, et al in the line up at the expense of younger NHL level talent in the minors, and also doesn't trade the tradeable assets to build more youth into the system.

This is enough to make ones head spin. I wish he wouldn't treat the fan base like we are stupid and do what he says for once.

So it's Ken's fault that Suter CHOSE Minnesota? It's his fault that teams like Minny, Columbus and Washington are willing to overpay? Guys like Tatar and Nyquist HAVE played because of injuries to the guys you mentioned. They'll have full-time gigs when those guys leave.

Huberdeau.

Nugent-Hopkins before the injury.

Cory Conacher.

Brad Marchand (first full NHL season, true rookie season).

John Tavares.

What's your definition of "dominate"?

Every prospect we have on D is extremely boom-or-bust. You don't build franchises with feast-or-famine players.

I agree to a certain extent. I think it's more his complete and utter failure to acquire anything of real, lasting quality since Hossa that creates it. This fanbase is hungry for a move that gets us going. We want to see a new face and watch him play. I'm included in that crowd. We're out of luck, however, as the rebuild is upon us and there won't be much to cheer for for a few years coming.

Three of those guys were top 5 picks (two were 1st overall). Detroit doesn't pick in the top five, thus, their prospects aren't handled like top five picks.

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Huberdeau.

Nugent-Hopkins before the injury.

Cory Conacher.

Brad Marchand (first full NHL season, true rookie season).

John Tavares.

What's your definition of "dominate"?

Every prospect we have on D is extremely boom-or-bust. You don't build franchises with feast-or-famine players.

I agree to a certain extent. I think it's more his complete and utter failure to acquire anything of real, lasting quality since Hossa that creates it. This fanbase is hungry for a move that gets us going. We want to see a new face and watch him play. I'm included in that crowd. We're out of luck, however, as the rebuild is upon us and there won't be much to cheer for for a few years coming.

Notice something familiar about all those teams? Florida - Worst team in their conference, Tampa - Second worst team in the conference, Edmonton in RNH rookie year - one of the worst teams in the league, Same goes for the Islanders in Tavares' rookie year.

The only one of those guys who played on a good team was Marchand and you have to qualify him but using his 2nd season because his first year where he played 20 games he was hot garbage.

Tatar played played fewer games than Marchand did in his short stint and put up 7x more points, while being a + player vs Marchands -3.

Unless you have a crystal ball that says otherwise Tatar might turn out to be even better than Marchand.

The Wings prospect pool is at its deepest point in the franchise's history, why are you in such a rush to write off everyone in it?

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So it's Ken's fault that Suter CHOSE Minnesota? It's his fault that teams like Minny, Columbus and Washington are willing to overpay? Guys like Tatar and Nyquist HAVE played because of injuries to the guys you mentioned. They'll have full-time gigs when those guys leave.

Three of those guys were top 5 picks (two were 1st overall). Detroit doesn't pick in the top five, thus, their prospects aren't handled like top five picks.

It's not an overpayment. It's the going rate in today's NHL. Ken Holland has to get with the times. If you want a high end player (he said he did) and you're not currently developing one (we aren't), then you've got to pay market value (he doesn't). There's a reason we haven't been getting anybody of note recently, and I know this is a surprise, but it's because KH isn't willing to pay what competitors in the market place are willing to pay.

It's simple supply and demand, there is a small supply of high end players and everyone wants them, so the price is high. Apparently KH doesn't want them bad enough. Simple as that.

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It's not an overpayment. It's the going rate in today's NHL. Ken Holland has to get with the times. If you want a high end player (he said he did) and you're not currently developing one (we aren't), then you've got to pay market value (he doesn't). There's a reason we haven't been getting anybody of note recently, and I know this is a surprise, but it's because KH isn't willing to pay what competitors in the market place are willing to pay.

It's simple supply and demand, there is a small supply of high end players and everyone wants them, so the price is high. Apparently KH doesn't want them bad enough. Simple as that.

Aside from Gaborik, those were severe overpayments. I'm ecstatic that Kenny isn't willing to pay what those guys are. In 3-4 years we'll have some solid, young talent on cheap contracts in the line-up. I can't wait.

Edit: Just saw this in an article.

“We offered some of (prospects). At the end of the day someone didn’t like them as much as we do or they liked someone else’s players better.” Edited by Jesusberg

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It's not an overpayment. It's the going rate in today's NHL. Ken Holland has to get with the times. If you want a high end player (he said he did) and you're not currently developing one (we aren't), then you've got to pay market value (he doesn't). There's a reason we haven't been getting anybody of note recently, and I know this is a surprise, but it's because KH isn't willing to pay what competitors in the market place are willing to pay.

It's simple supply and demand, there is a small supply of high end players and everyone wants them, so the price is high. Apparently KH doesn't want them bad enough. Simple as that.

This. Kenny lacks the courage to pull the trigger on high end talent for fear of "overpaying" (gasp!). Anytime there is any kind of competition for a player these days Kenny loses. Good thing DeKeyser had an entry level cap or Kenny would've probably lost him too.

esteef

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ovie, malkin, and he who shall not be named are the only prospects that really came out and just kicked straight up ass in their rookie years in the last 10 years

Skinner was pretty good as an 18 year old.
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Aside from Gaborik, those were severe overpayments. I'm ecstatic that Kenny isn't willing to pay what those guys are. In 3-4 years we'll have some solid, young talent on cheap contracts in the line-up. I can't wait.

Edit: Just saw this in an article.

“We offered some of (prospects). At the end of the day someone didn’t like them as much as we do or they liked someone else’s players better.”

In 3-4 years Datsyuk and Flip will probably be gone, and Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Franzen will be on the decline. So I hope those "solid, young, talents" are better than projected because that's a lot of leadership, scoring, defense, and consistency that we're about to lose.

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ovie, malkin, and he who shall not be named are the only prospects that really came out and just kicked straight up ass in their rookie years in the last 10 years

There's the list back to 2000. There's a lot of really impressive rookie seasons.

Year Winner Runner-up 2012 Gabriel Landeskog, Colorado Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Edmonton 2011 Jeff Skinner, Carolina Logan Couture, San Jose 2010 Tyler Myers, Buffalo Jimmy Howard, Detroit 2009 Steve Mason, Columbus Bobby Ryan, Anaheim 2008 Patrick Kane, Chicago Nicklas Backstrom, Washington 2007 Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh Paul Stastny, Colorado 2006 Alex Ovechkin, Washington Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 2004 Andrew Raycroft, Boston Michael Ryder, Montreal 2003 Barrett Jackman, St. Louis Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 2002 Dany Heatley, Atlanta Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 2001 Evgeni Nabokov, San Jose Brad Richards, Tampa Bay 2000 Scott Gomez, New Jersey Brad Stuart, San Jose

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This. Kenny lacks the courage to pull the trigger on high end talent for fear of "overpaying" (gasp!). Anytime there is any kind of competition for a player these days Kenny loses. Good thing DeKeyser had an entry level cap or Kenny would've probably lost him too.

esteef

Kenny is luck he had Nick Lidstrom on the telephone when he had Danny in his office, that call sealed the deal. Thank you Nick Lidstrom :)

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