What Does This Team Need More/Most?

[Dabura 12,232]

So, maybe this is kind of a retread of a thousand threads that have come before. But I'm gonna try to make it unique-ish, because I think we may be in new-ish territory.

So, here's what I'm thinking/wondering. It's pretty simple, really. Basically, we've been going on and on about how this team needs more pure skill, more speed. We're too blue-collar, too cement-handed, too pluggy. Too many garbage "grinder" scrubs.

But, in the wake of last night's s*** show, many people seem to be saying, "See?! THIS is why we need to get bigger and tougher and meaner! No more of this Euro-skill crap! Big Bad East!"

So which one is it? Say we target an impact player or two. Are we looking for a Shanny '97 effect? (Maybe that's a stupid question. Of course we are.) Do we want a Steve Ott instead of a Joakim Andersson, a Colton Orr instead of a Drew Miller? Or do we just need someone who can put the puck in the freaking net, e.g. a ("soft") sniper like Gaborik?

Or is this whole debate a non-issue? Is this just a matter of our defense and/or goaltending not being where it needs to be? (Certainly I feel we'd be infinitely more formidable without Kyle Quincey shooting us in the collective foot every game. And certainly Jimmy has to be better.)

Or is it a combination of things? Or, more correctly: Is there no one glaring issue here? Is this perhaps an everything-that-could-be-wrong-is-wrong situation?

What do you think?

Edited November 24, 2013 by Dabura

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Balls

[sputman 1,268]

A new approach. What they're doing right now isn't working.

[Dominator2005 558]

I would like Luke Gazdic instead of Sammy/Miller

Steve Ott instead of Andersson

Matt Martin instead of Cleary

Adam McQuaid instead of Q

Z - Dats - Bert

Alf - Weiss - Franzen

Nyquist - Ott - Tatar

Martin - Helm - Abdelkader/Gazdic

Kronwall - E

DeKe - Kindl

Smith - McQuaid

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

We need some more snarl, some more size up front. But at the same time, it isn't just an enforcer. We could use a guy like Chris Stewart, Bertuzzi is a decent deterrent, but you see how the game changes if he doesn't play. We need big guys that can put some pucks in the net. And on the back end, we could use either a guy who blocks shots like a madman or can connect tape to tape on every pass. But all of that is easier said then done, because not only do we have a nonchalant GM, he doesn't have cap space or roster space to make trades.

[kipwinger 8,756]

We had three five on three penalties last night and didn't convert on any of them. and only got three shots on goal during that time. We don't need to be bigger and tougher, we need a team that's not full of scrubs. Oh yeah, and we need a new coach.

[esteef 2,679]

A change in philosophy about fighting in hockey from the DRW front office.

esteef

[KATIEBARTHEDOOR24 426]

Kaleta is available.

The team, to me, is lacking among lots of things fundamental structure.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I. Vision

If I could ask Kenny one question and only one this would be it. What is the vision for this team? Personally I don't see one, I see stop gap and over the hill signings but not a vision.

2. Identity

Right now this team doesn't have one. Yes, I've said before but even after 21 games I am still struggling to see the identity of this team.

Are they fast? No

Young? No

skilled enough for puck-possession? lamo

hard to play against? no freaking way probably the softest team in the NHL

I believe every team needs an identity which - at least to me - goes hand in hand with a clear vision, right now I am not seeing it.

3. 180 turn in terms of size, grit and nastiness

For years now - since the last cup ! - Kenny has told the fans how the enforcer would be the PP and that's why other teams aren't going to take cheapshots or are afraid of playing their enforcers against the DetroitRedWings guess what....the Senators didn't even ice their "toughest" roster and they pushed around this team like nothing, Neil ran around like a monkey looking for his next banana (= player) in that case.

This team has had two! 5:3 PPs and none of them was even close to being dangerous. It's ok to have a smaller but highly skilled top line but if you do that, make up for it with a fourth line from hell. Smith shouldn't be the one having to fight Neil nor should it be Tootoo it should be someone like McGrattan!

4. A statement game

I know, I've posted this a few times now but really it is needed and fast. Don't kid yourself here other teams for sure have noticed how to play against this team and they also know that they aren't skilled enough anymore, so if Kenny doesn't react this week things will only get worse from here, Toronto, Boston and even the Canadiens are going to have some fun with this team.

Please stay away from guys like Gaborik, Tlusty, Ruutuu or whomever of that kind enough with this soft euro style this team needs a top 6 bottom 6 approach and at least 2 - 3 more retooling years.

McQuaid would be a nice addition, him + McGrattan + Tootoo would be a nice upgrade over our current fourth line.

[RedWingsRox 614]

Wins!

[Hairy Lime 234]

Cowbell.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

We need some more snarl, some more size up front. But at the same time, it isn't just an enforcer. We could use a guy like Chris Stewart, Bertuzzi is a decent deterrent, but you see how the game changes if he doesn't play. We need big guys that can put some pucks in the net. And on the back end, we could use either a guy who blocks shots like a madman or can connect tape to tape on every pass. But all of that is easier said then done, because not only do we have a nonchalant GM, he doesn't have cap space or roster space to make trades.

I agree about Bert, but it also says a lot when the Wings rely on a 38 year-old with a bad back to be a deterrent of any kind. Like when he dropped the gloves to go with Weber after the head smash on Z. Good on Bert for doing it, but I also felt kind of bad for him.

As I've mentioned before, it'd be nice to have someone like Jordan Nolan on the 4th line like the Kings do. He's 6'3" 227 lbs, will drop the gloves with anyone and is a pretty effective grinder who will score a few. You know when the Kings 4th line is out there. And Nolan is only 24 years old, drafted in the 7th round. Dwight King is another one, taken in the 4th round. He has more offensive upside than Nolan.

It's not like the Kings got them because of high draft picks. There are guys out there. You occasionally have to pick them instead of a non-physical skill guy.

To try and head off the inevitable enforcer argument, I'm not talking about the Wings getting a John Scott. But it would be nice if they at least had a 4th line with some size and grit, and would make people answer for playing against the Wings like the Sens did last night. Even before last night many of us have been saying how the bottom 6 are a collection of spare parts instead of one that has a mission and identity when they're out there.

[kipwinger 8,756]

I agree about Bert, but it also says a lot when the Wings rely on a 38 year-old with a bad back to be a deterrent of any kind. Like when he dropped the gloves to go with Weber after the head smash on Z. Good on Bert for doing it, but I also felt kind of bad for him.

As I've mentioned before, it'd be nice to have someone like Jordan Nolan on the 4th line like the Kings do. He's 6'3" 227 lbs, will drop the gloves with anyone and is a pretty effective grinder who will score a few. You know when the Kings 4th line is out there. And Nolan is only 24 years old, drafted in the 7th round. Dwight King is another one, taken in the 4th round. He has more offensive upside than Nolan.

It's not like the Kings got them because of high draft picks. There are guys out there. You occasionally have to pick them instead of a non-physical skill guy.

To try and head off the inevitable enforcer argument, I'm not talking about the Wings getting a John Scott. But it would be nice if they at least had a 4th line with some size and grit, and would make people answer for playing against the Wings like the Sens did last night. Even before last night many of us have been saying how the bottom 6 are a collection of spare parts instead of one that has a mission and identity when they're out there.

I have no problem with what you're saying, but I think it obscures the fact that we didn't lose last night because Ottawa was physical. We lost because we could score on any of the three 5 on 3 powerplays we had. Hell, forget about scoring on them, we couldn't even get any shots on goal. Three shots on three 5 on 3 powerplays. Pathetic.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

A puck moving top four defenseman that can contribute offensively. Especially critical missing DeKeyser, but necessary even when he's healthy.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I have no problem with what you're saying, but I think it obscures the fact that we didn't lose last night because Ottawa was physical. We lost because we could score on any of the three 5 on 3 powerplays we had. Hell, forget about scoring on them, we couldn't even get any shots on goal. Three shots on three 5 on 3 powerplays. Pathetic.

Agreed. To be clear, the problem is larger than signing some tougher players. That's really just one element. The key of what I meant is what I said in the last paragraph. It's not so much about last night, but the bottom six desperately needs to be something other than a junk drawer.

It would do wonders to have a 4th line that put the opposing D-men's face in the glass all night, as Babcock says it. That chipped the puck behind them shift after shift saying "go get it, I'll be right behind you." That crashed the net and made someone try to move them. That kept the puck deep, cycling in the corners, hitting players whenever possible.

The Wings have enough pieces to put together a decent top two lines, even with some struggling players. But there's far too much scrap metal sprinkled throughout the lineup.

[ben_usmc 253]

We had three five on three penalties last night and didn't convert on any of them. and only got three shots on goal during that time. We don't need to be bigger and tougher, we need a team that's not full of scrubs. Oh yeah, and we need a new coach.

we also lost the game and have Datsyuk sitting out next game, so the whole we had 3 5 on 3's and didn't convert doesn't really matter. You can have a team not full of scrubs and still become bigger and tougher. Hell if we are going have a team full of scrubs I'd at least like them to be able to make the game 1) Entertaining 2) actually protect the 2 or 3 actual hockey players on the team.

Agreed. To be clear, the problem is larger than signing some tougher players. That's really just one element. The key is what I said in the last paragraph. It's not so much about last night, but the bottom six desperately needs to be something other than a junk drawer.

It would do wonders to have a 4th line that put the opposing D-men's face in the glass all night, as Babcock says it. That chipped the puck behind them shift after shift saying "go get it, I'll be right behind you." That crashed the net and made someone try to move them.

The Wings have enough pieces to put together a decent top two lines, even with some struggling players. But there's far too much scrap metal sprinkled throughout the lineup.

When Ott. was flying into the boards all night long attempting to check it really made me wish we had Tootoo out there

[Dabura 12,232]

I. Vision

If I could ask Kenny one question and only one this would be it. What is the vision for this team? Personally I don't see one, I see stop gap and over the hill signings but not a vision.

2. Identity

Right now this team doesn't have one. Yes, I've said before but even after 21 games I am still struggling to see the identity of this team.

Are they fast? No

Young? No

skilled enough for puck-possession? lamo

hard to play against? no freaking way probably the softest team in the NHL

I believe every team needs an identity which - at least to me - goes hand in hand with a clear vision, right now I am not seeing it.

3. 180 turn in terms of size, grit and nastiness

For years now - since the last cup ! - Kenny has told the fans how the enforcer would be the PP and that's why other teams aren't going to take cheapshots or are afraid of playing their enforcers against the DetroitRedWings guess what....the Senators didn't even ice their "toughest" roster and they pushed around this team like nothing, Neil ran around like a monkey looking for his next banana (= player) in that case.

This team has had two! 5:3 PPs and none of them was even close to being dangerous. It's ok to have a smaller but highly skilled top line but if you do that, make up for it with a fourth line from hell. Smith shouldn't be the one having to fight Neil nor should it be Tootoo it should be someone like McGrattan!

4. A statement game

I know, I've posted this a few times now but really it is needed and fast. Don't kid yourself here other teams for sure have noticed how to play against this team and they also know that they aren't skilled enough anymore, so if Kenny doesn't react this week things will only get worse from here, Toronto, Boston and even the Canadiens are going to have some fun with this team.

Please stay away from guys like Gaborik, Tlusty, Ruutuu or whomever of that kind enough with this soft euro style this team needs a top 6 bottom 6 approach and at least 2 - 3 more retooling years.

McQuaid would be a nice addition, him + McGrattan + Tootoo would be a nice upgrade over our current fourth line.

Good stuff, frank.

[LAWings 160]

1. Coach / Direction - listen to any Babs interview, yes he knows the game, but he's lost the room, it's just blah, blah, blah at this point

2. Dump Cleary, Bertuzzi, Sammy, Eaves, Miller

3. Make a trade for a puck moving, shooting from the blue line, defenseman (preferably two)

4. Make a trade for a right handed shot, so sick of hearing them say we need one. Rafalski has been gone for 3 years, make this happen!

5. Is Stephen Weiss to Detroit what Scott Gomez was to Montreal?

6. Is Ottowa the new San Jose for Detroit? Seems former Wings coaches dominate us with their new teams... maybe those guys need to be promoted and Babs demoted

7. Possibly make some room at the front office for a new GM, I think Holland has not been making good moves the last few years. They just keep putting bandaids on problems rather then long term solutions

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

A big, physical scoring winger.

There's other things, obviously, but that's the most important one.

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

It sure would be nice to have an enforcer but can that be the vision frankgrimes mentioned above ? It can be a patch for one or two seasons, it will give us a good feeling against tougher clubs like the sens last night, but will not lead us to a cup. What we need in first place, and i agree with kipwinger on that, is finding a way to get out PP and scoring going again. I know it's an overstreched and not well liked phrase around here but our Power Play should be our enforcer. Why ? Because who cares if our guys a rattled a little bit as long as the Wings win ? Sure, I like to have both, a real enforcer and a good goalscorer. But I have the feeling thats pretty hard to aquire in the cap-era and if I had to choose I take a sucsessfull, able-passing, "soft" team over a gritty, dirty team that isn't producing any day. Remember: Why became the Wings one of the greatest franchise in hockey ? Not because we punch guys in the face a lot but because we played the best hockey in the NHL. Thats the main issue at the moment, everything else is just a nuisance.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

It sure would be nice to have an enforcer but can that be the vision frankgrimes mentioned above ? It can be a patch for one or two seasons, it will give us a good feeling against tougher clubs like the sens last night, but will not lead us to a cup. What we need in first place, and i agree with kipwinger on that, is finding a way to get out PP and scoring going again. I know it's an overstreched and not well liked phrase around here but our Power Play should be our enforcer. Why ? Because who cares if our guys a rattled a little bit as long as the Wings win ? Sure, I like to have both, a real enforcer and a good goalscorer. But I have the feeling thats pretty hard to aquire in the cap-era and if I had to choose I take a sucsessfull, able-passing, "soft" team over a gritty, dirty team that isn't producing any day. Remember: Why became the Wings one of the greatest franchise in hockey ? Not because we punch guys in the face a lot but because we played the best hockey in the NHL. Thats the main issue at the moment, everything else is just a nuisance.

It'll definitely help me sleep better at night. I slept a lot better when Downey was on the team.

[esteef 2,679]

It sure would be nice to have an enforcer but can that be the vision frankgrimes mentioned above ? It can be a patch for one or two seasons, it will give us a good feeling against tougher clubs like the sens last night, but will not lead us to a cup. What we need in first place, and i agree with kipwinger on that, is finding a way to get out PP and scoring going again. I know it's an overstreched and not well liked phrase around here but our Power Play should be our enforcer. Why ? Because who cares if our guys a rattled a little bit as long as the Wings win ? Sure, I like to have both, a real enforcer and a good goalscorer. But I have the feeling thats pretty hard to aquire in the cap-era and if I had to choose I take a sucsessfull, able-passing, "soft" team over a gritty, dirty team that isn't producing any day. Remember: Why became the Wings one of the greatest franchise in hockey ? Not because we punch guys in the face a lot but because we played the best hockey in the NHL. Thats the main issue at the moment, everything else is just a nuisance.

Kenny? Did you change your board name again?

esteef

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

This team needs to get rid of Cleary, Quincey, Sammy, and Miller.

This team need's most to get a top 4 d-men that is capable of contributing offensively while playing good defense and move the puck, a physical top 6 winger that drives the net, and most importantly a new GM that make changes we need instead of what he thinks is best for the vets.

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

Kenny? Did you change your board name again?

esteef

Don't worry, I don't like our team.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I think a reliable goal scorer for the top 6 would solve a lot of problems