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Richdg

Fixing this mess....

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I feel like I'm one of the few people around here who don't think we look too bad going forward. And that our "down years" aren't all that down. We will be as good or better next year than we were this year. Even without Datsyuk. Two years from now we will be really good. We've already got our next first and second line centers in the organization. We've got two higher end goal scorers in Nyquist and Tatar. We have quality supplementary power forwards in Abby and Mantha. And we've got a future franchise goalie. Our defense needs work, and even its not as bad as people think. We are in a position now where our old guys are too old, and our young guys aren't quite there yet. What we need is time, for our next generation to mature. That's it. Chasing guys like Backes or Lucid would only put this team in the same spot its already in...just two or three years from now.

All I want from Holland and company is to commit fully to the kids in the off season, and improve the defense if possible without losing anything significant.

You also thought the offense would really improve under Blash.

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I feel like I'm one of the few people around here who don't think we look too bad going forward. And that our "down years" aren't all that down. We will be as good or better next year than we were this year. Even without Datsyuk. Two years from now we will be really good. We've already got our next first and second line centers in the organization. We've got two higher end goal scorers in Nyquist and Tatar. We have quality supplementary power forwards in Abby and Mantha. And we've got a future franchise goalie. Our defense needs work, and even its not as bad as people think. We are in a position now where our old guys are too old, and our young guys aren't quite there yet. What we need is time, for our next generation to mature. That's it. Chasing guys like Backes or Lucid would only put this team in the same spot its already in...just two or three years from now.

All I want from Holland and company is to commit fully to the kids in the off season, and improve the defense if possible without losing anything significant.

I agree, and disagree.

I agree we need to have a full-blown youth movement (well - from Holland on down seems so content to what we have in GR - so lets bring them up for next season).

I disagree considering that our current crops of young players aren't anything special (Tatar/Nyquist/Sheahan haven't lived up to expectations), and the way this team is going I have zero idea where Holland is leading it.

I'm perfectly fine if Dats, and Hank weren't on this roster next year...Both have given it their all over the years, and truth be told it's time to move on...Problem is - I question what 'quality' we have in both the coaching staff, and the players we have that will be around for the next several seasons.

You don't understand genius coach Blash. He's.like a hipster. He's really smart, we're just too dumb to realize it.

Better get used to it...He's gonna be here for at least 2 more seasons.....

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You don't understand genius coach Blash. He's.like a hipster. He's really smart, we're just too dumb to realize it.

Whenever I watch his post game comments that's the vibe I get, the weird faces he makes when one of the reporters asks him about ice time for certain players is really annoying too.

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Being in the top 53% isn't good enough. I don't expect to win a cup every year. But we should be in the position to win. We are not.

We took the cup finalists last year to 7 games. Kinda hard to make that argument that we are not in a position to win when we are. I will say we are not the favorites, and that is what rubs some Wings fans the wrong way. We aren't going to be the favorites unless the league changes.

Edited by Nightfall

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We took the cup finalists last year to 7 games. Kinda hard to make that argument that we are not in a position to win when we are. I will say we are not the favorites, and that is what rubs some Wings fans the wrong way. We aren't going to be the favorites unless the league changes.

Almost winning is still losing.

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Correct and I wasn't clear in my statement. I don't expect any big outside the organization moves. 1 max if any at all.

Callahan isn't a NHL caliber player. he has been through waivers 2 years now and no one takes him. He is just a little too small little too slow, and not enough skill. Good AHL guy but that is it. When we need checkers it will be Lil Bert and Nastisiak that take those roles.

Who was Holland when h was named GM? He was next in line. same with Blashill. Until you look and try you don't know.

Would be very okay with that too. Little Bert is entertaining to watch. Callahan could end up there with a big off season of training but yeah, you're most likely correct. I like the heart both him and bert seem to play with.

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We took the cup finalists last year to 7 games. Kinda hard to make that argument that we are not in a position to win when we are. I will say we are not the favorites, and that is what rubs some Wings fans the wrong way. We aren't going to be the favorites unless the league changes.

So now the league is the problem? The Blackhawks and Kings don't seem to have that issue, so why should we?

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Got to be worried about the state of the defense going forward and theirs nobody in the pipeline. Wings can't make a pitch for a guy like Seth Jones because other teams have better peices. Sure we had productive peices (up until this last year) but they're small one dimensional Euro's. Why would another team choose a 30 goal scorer Tatar over a 30 goal guy like Johanssen. Too many teams need a #1 D and they're willing to go all in one one as part of a rebuild that the Wings won't be able to. Wings won't be a serious team until theirs somebody on defense that can be a difference maker in a series. If Holland pays DD huge money and term like he's a #1 I will have given up faith in him. I believe he is buying time right now until he finds worthy players that he doesn't see yet

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Got to be worried about the state of the defense going forward and theirs nobody in the pipeline. Wings can't make a pitch for a guy like Seth Jones because other teams have better peices. Sure we had productive peices (up until this last year) but they're small one dimensional Euro's. Why would another team choose a 30 goal scorer Tatar over a 30 goal guy like Johanssen. Too many teams need a #1 D and they're willing to go all in one one as part of a rebuild that the Wings won't be able to. Wings won't be a serious team until theirs somebody on defense that can be a difference maker in a series. If Holland pays DD huge money and term like he's a #1 I will have given up faith in him. I believe he is buying time right now until he finds worthy players that he doesn't see yet

Tanking doesnt give you a 1D. Most are not even drafted in the first round.

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Tanking doesnt give you a 1D. Most are not even drafted in the first round.

I mean bad teams like Columbus are willing to deal a guy like Johanssen but the Wings are not/cannot.

But if a guy comes up in the draft that the wings are really high on Holland needs to go after somebody. No high end potential at all has been through this system in a very very long time. You have to at least try to address this problem eventually

Edited by joesuffP

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Saddest thing is, The Wings have the second highest payroll in the NHL, factor in Franzen a money and they are tops.

That's the problem. When you have the highest payroll in the league and barely make they playoffs and can't score more than 2 goals or score a PP goal or stop a PK, etc...something is wrong. That something is Ken Holland. He gave way too much money to mediocre players and much too long of contracts and too many NTC'S.

Even if Holland could find takers for Howard or Ericsson, he'll for sure have to retain salary. Thus hindering our cap.

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I mean bad teams like Columbus are willing to deal a guy like Johanssen but the Wings are not/cannot.

But if a guy comes up in the draft that the wings are really high on Holland needs to go after somebody. No high end potential at all has been through this system in a very very long time. You have to at least try to address this problem eventually

I assume we are strictly talking D here, in which other then DD I agree.

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Saddest thing is, The Wings have the second highest payroll in the NHL, factor in Franzen a money and they are tops.

That's the problem. When you have the highest payroll in the league and barely make they playoffs and can't score more than 2 goals or score a PP goal or stop a PK, etc...something is wrong. That something is Ken Holland. He gave way too much money to mediocre players and much too long of contracts and too many NTC'S.

Even if Holland could find takers for Howard or Ericsson, he'll for sure have to retain salary. Thus hindering our cap.

Don't worry, Helm is due of a raise. Detroit will be #1 soon!

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Saddest thing is, The Wings have the second highest payroll in the NHL, factor in Franzen a money and they are tops.

That's the problem. When you have the highest payroll in the league and barely make they playoffs and can't score more than 2 goals or score a PP goal or stop a PK, etc...something is wrong. That something is Ken Holland. He gave way too much money to mediocre players and much too long of contracts and too many NTC'S.

Even if Holland could find takers for Howard or Ericsson, he'll for sure have to retain salary. Thus hindering our cap.

That is a bit of a deceiving statement. #1 - #15 are all between 73.8 million and 70.5 million, which is pretty much the same considering LTIR plays a huge factor.

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We need a serious shake-up next season. We need Larkin to be playing top 6 C and we will need one top 6 UFA C at minimum. We need lines with identity and I think having a physical skill 3rd line like this playoffs makes sense. We need skill guys playing with skill guys from now on.

FWD:

- One of Tatar/Nyquist should be traded to move up in the draft or acquire more pics to get our future D sorted. Pulkkinen should probably be shipped off too at the draft.

- UFA C could be Stamkos/Backes/Staal (hinges on trading Datsyuk's contract away)

Zetterberg - Larkin - Mantha

Tatar/Nyquist - UFA C - Athanasiou

Jurco - Sheahan - Abdelkader

Nosek - Glendening - Bertuzzi/Callahan

DEF:

- Sign one of Yandle/Goligoski/Hamhuis

- Trade Ericsson

UFA D - Green

Kronwall - Dekeyser

Smith - Marchenko

XO/Sproul

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We need a serious shake-up next season. We need Larkin to be playing top 6 C and we will need one top 6 UFA C at minimum. We need lines with identity and I think having a physical skill 3rd line like this playoffs makes sense. We need skill guys playing with skill guys from now on.

FWD:

- One of Tatar/Nyquist should be traded to move up in the draft or acquire more pics to get our future D sorted. Pulkkinen should probably be shipped off too at the draft.

- UFA C could be Stamkos/Backes/Staal (hinges on trading Datsyuk's contract away)

Zetterberg - Larkin - Mantha

Tatar/Nyquist - UFA C - Athanasiou

Jurco - Sheahan - Abdelkader

Nosek - Glendening - Bertuzzi/Callahan

DEF:

- Sign one of Yandle/Goligoski/Hamhuis

- Trade Ericsson

UFA D - Green

Kronwall - Dekeyser

Smith - Marchenko

XO/Sproul

We are re-building. Signing a guy like Staal, Hamhuis etc. just takes a spot away from a kid, and likely adds a big cap hit.

We need to stay the course and stick with the re-build, the only type of UFA I want is a franchise player (ie. Stamkos) or a 1A d-man (ie. maybe Yandle).

We have enough 2nd and 3rd liners on this team, we dont need any more at a 5mil cap hit.

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"Big E" is a garbage fire and has to go. I don't give a s*** about his wrist passes to the opposing goaltender anymore. His play in his own and and his costly penalties are not Red Wing hockey. They're barely NHL hockey.

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Didn't read a word of this post but I will throw my 2 cents in on how to fix this mess... Run Blashill and his boring hockey system clear out of town and BEG Babs to come back!

The Blashill experiment failed miserably. Don't believe me, watch the never ending team confusion and random line shuffling. Watch what has become a very boring and predictable team get owned over and over and over again.

That stupid new zone entry move they use repeatedly.... forward quickly carries the puck to the opponents blue line then all forwards stop, pass the puck back to the defense, then wait for the defense-man to carry the puck in. Guddammet!!!! This team is young... turn the youth loose!!!! Forget the dumb pass back BS. If you can't carry the puck in then dump and chase. Get it deep and have that youth chase and hound. We don't have the high powered super stars of decades ago... we need an old school smash-mouth system. Aggressive fore-check, mucking and grinding in the corners, hard shots on net and young kids crashing and fighting for pucks in front. Teach them to step in and finish a check... no more patty cakes! No need for killing people but checks that make the other team think.

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Won't happen. That article also cites the Franzen deal as a reason to fire Holland. But even though it's turned out horribly, especially when compared to Hossa's post-Wings career, at the time it was a logical decision to make. Franzen looked like he would set the hockey world on fire for years to come. He was dominant in the playoffs. He was every bit a Hossa. Now, signing either one would have been good, but Hossa had the reputation as a bit of a playoff choker, at least with the Wings that year. So it's not rocket science to see why he was signed and not Hossa. Yes, it turned out bad, but hindsight is 20/20. People need to stop using that as a sign of Holland's inability to make a smart hockey move.

And while Yzerman is a good GM, he's hardly becoming legendary. He's about to lose his franchise forward, the Drouin situation is a black eye, the whole debacle with St. Louis, etc. Yes, his team made the finals, but so have a bunch of teams the last ten years. He hasn't consistently made noise in the playoffs yet. Would I welcome him here? Absolutely. But let's not pretend he's magically the best of the best. And his team isn't going anywhere this year, but they did benefit from playing an extremely weak Wings team.

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