Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

[kickazz 5,459]

Same old debate, new year.

But now Fedorov is officially a HHOF and was honored by Detroit. He's seemed to have mended relations with the Wings for the most part and thanked the organization in his HOF speech. Datsyuk has moved on and his career with the Wings has come to an end. Contract was moved and things worked out. Zetterberg... is basically done but just riding it out so.. Osgood because people always bring him up in the conversation.

Here are their achievements- I've italicized and bolded the ones I felt are pretty significant accomplishments. Let me know if I'm missing anything or would like to add other categories.

Sergei Fedorov

Hart Trophy as league MVP - 1

Selke Trophy as best defensive forward - 2

Ted Lindsay Award as Most Outstanding player selected by NHLPA - 1

Stanley Cups - 3

World Championships - 3 Gold medals

Olympic Silver Medalist in 1998

Inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame in 2015

Pavel Datsyuk

Lady Byng Trophy for player best exhibiting sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct - 4

Selke Trophy as best defensive forward - 3

Stanley Cups - 2

World Championships - 1 Gold Medal, 1 Silver Medal

Henrik Zetterberg

Conn Smythe Trophy as playoffs MVP - 1

Foundational Player award applying core values of hockey to enrich lives of people in community - 1

King Clancy Memorial Trophy for leadership on and off ice and humanitarian contributions - 1

Stanley Cups - 1

World Championships - 1 Gold Medal, 1 Silver Medal

Olympic Gold and Silver Medalist - 2006 and 2014

Triple Gold Club member

Chris Osgood

William Jennings Trophy - 2

Stanley Cups - 3

[Jacksoni 418]

Been thinking about Sergei and rewatching full games from the 90´s to make sure that I wasn't overextending my thoughts.

Hands down, this man was born to skate/play hockey. We have had very talented players that have asserted themselves onto games, but based on talent alone, I have not seen anyone as good as Sergei Fedorov.

I have him 3rd on the list for contributions for the Red Wings but if I were to pick 1 player and he was to be 25 years old, it would be Fedorov or Gretzky.

Edit: or Mario Lemiux. Fedorov is just that good.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Jacksoni

[kylee 727]

Pav and Z

[kickazz 5,459]

Here's some more information that might help in voting.

Since this is all about being a Red Wing I'll also provide top 10 leaders for some stats ALL TIME as a Red Wing in season.

All Time Leaders in TOTAL POINTS-

1. Gordie Howe

2. Steve Yzerman

3. Alex Delvecchio

4. Nicklas Lidstrom

5. Sergei Fedorov

6. Pavel Datsyuk

7. Henrik Zetterberg

8. Norm Ullman

9. Ted Lindsay

10. Brenden Shanahan

All time total GOALS

1. Gordie Howe

2. Steve Yzerman

3. Alex Delvecchio

4. Sergei Fedorov

5. Ted Lindsay

6. Norm Ullman

7. Pavel Datsyuk

8. Henrik Zetterberg

9. Brenden Shanahan

10. John Ogrodnick

All time total ASSISTS

1. Steve Yzerman

2. Gordie Howe

3. Nicklas Lidstrom

4. Alex Delvecchio

5. Pavel Datsyuk

6. Sergei Fedorov

7. Henrik Zetterberg

8. Norm Ullman

9. Ted Lindsay

10. Reed Larson

Chris Osgood is #2 in all time Wins list as a Red Wing behind Terry Sawchuck. It's hard to show SV% and GAA since the sample size of games played sort of skews the percentages. Unless someone has a way to avoid all that.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,743]

Lol at Z & Pav and not Feds/Osgood. Osgood owns most the Red Wings playoff records, plus 400 wins. feds the best player on the team throughout the 90's and 3 Cup era.

91 and 30 absolutely. Especially if you're even considering 13 & 40.

Edited July 9, 2016 by LeftWinger

[kickazz 5,459]

Lol at Z & Pav and not Feds/Osgood

It's a legitimate option because Z and D played entire careers as Red Wings while Feds and Osgood did not. It's not singling them out, it's a categorical option. Some people value whether or not a player dedicated his entire career to the franchise.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,743]

Osgood didn't leave by choice. Fedorov had his contract snatched out from under him by Holland. Babdick nixed his return in 08.

[kickazz 5,459]

Osgood didn't leave by choice. Fedorov had his contract snatched out from under him by Holland. Babdick nixed his return in 08.

How.

Just so you know. It takes two to tango. If Fedorov really wanted to stay, he could have. Just like Stamkos did for less. Yeah with endorsement deals in Toronto, Stamkos would have made more than he is in Tampa even without their tax rate. But he chose to stay.

I'm not saying Feds shouldn't be retired but I am saying that you're trying to paint a picture of Fedorov being the cornered into not re-signing (as if he can't make his own decisions lol) with Detroit when he had the damn right to stay here if he wanted to.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[Jacksoni 418]

Scotty Bowman weighing on who he thinks was most talented on his Red Wings team and Fedorov not staying in Detroit (doesn't say overly much though):

Edited July 9, 2016 by Jacksoni

[kickazz 5,459]

Been thinking about Sergei and rewatching full games from the 90´s to make sure that I wasn't overextending my thoughts.

Hands down, this man was born to skate/play hockey. We have had very talented players that have asserted themselves onto games, but based on talent alone, I have not seen anyone as good as Sergei Fedorov.

I have him 3rd on the list for contributions for the Red Wings but if I were to pick 1 player and he was to be 25 years old, it would be Fedorov or Gretzky.

Edit: or Mario Lemiux. Fedorov is just that good.

I agree. I think with as much time that has passed a lot of people have forgotten just how good Fedorov was.

Imo Feds is the most complete player I've ever seen play the game. Wicked slap shot, extremely powerful wrist shot. Dangles, defensive, faceoffs, fastest skater in the world. I mean there's nothing I haven't seen him do.

The guy even fought on (very extremely) rare occasions lol. It wasn't a part of his game but this one is pretty nice.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[shocky2002 36]

Everyone but Osgood.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

Only Feds. *shrug*

[ToastyWing 15]

For me it comes down to two things:

1. Were they the best player in the league at any point in time?

2. Would I be genuinely upset if someone else wore their number while on the Wings?

Out of the four you listed above, only Datsyuk and Fedorov meet 'my' criteria

- Datysuk never won a hart trophy, but he was voted by his peers as the best player in the league, and is considered one of the most talented stick handlers of all time.

- Fedorov is in the HOF, was a hart trophy winner, and even though he left on semi bad terms, was one of the best players on the Stanley Cup teams.

Most importantly - I would be upset if anyone wore either of those numbers, which is really how I judge it haha

[kickazz 5,459]

For the people who don't think #13 and #40. How come?

For me it comes down to two things:

1. Were they the best player in the league at any point in time?

2. Would I be genuinely upset if someone else wore their number while on the Wings?

Out of the four you listed above, only Datsyuk and Fedorov meet 'my' criteria

- Datysuk never won a hart trophy, but he was voted by his peers as the best player in the league, and is considered one of the most talented stick handlers of all time.

- Fedorov is in the HOF, was a hart trophy winner, and even though he left on semi bad terms, was one of the best players on the Stanley Cup teams.

Most importantly - I would be upset if anyone wore either of those numbers, which is really how I judge it haha

Datsyuk never won the Ted Lindsay award which is voted best player by the NHL players. Only Fedorov won that on the list.

Also I can say with guarantee that if #13 is retired, then #40 will be. They wouldn't retire one without the other. Imo it's either both or neither.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[ToastyWing 15]

I was referring to the (unofficial ?) votes they had back in 2011-2012. Also just the 'eye test' for me - ya he never scored the most points (which is basically the requirement for winning the Hart Trophy it seems), but he was one of if not the most talented players in the NHL for a solid 5-8 years.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/02/detroit_red_wings_pavel_datsyu.html

I personally would have no problem with Z and Osgood having their jerseys retired. I love both of those guys and think they both should be in the HoF, but just for me I view Dats and Feds as slightly higher on the Red Wings 'Legends' chart.

That being said if the Wings somehow manage to get another Cup while Z is on the team - his first as a captain - then he will have his jersey retired IMO

[kickazz 5,459]

Yeaa but unofficial is meh. If those guys meant it they should have voted him for Ted Lindsay award at the end of the year.

I see what you're saying though btw.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

None are generational players IMO. NoNE of the above.

[Dabura 11,951]

Been thinking about Sergei and rewatching full games from the 90´s to make sure that I wasn't overextending my thoughts.

Hands down, this man was born to skate/play hockey. We have had very talented players that have asserted themselves onto games, but based on talent alone, I have not seen anyone as good as Sergei Fedorov.

I have him 3rd on the list for contributions for the Red Wings but if I were to pick 1 player and he was to be 25 years old, it would be Fedorov or Gretzky.

Edit: or Mario Lemiux. Fedorov is just that good.

Prime-years Sergei Fedorov was the most complete player I have ever seen play the game of hockey.

[GMRwings1983 8,739]

Osgood no. The other three guys have legitimate claims. It depends on how lenient Red Wings ownership is about adding names to the rafters. I would personally retire those numbers, but based on the standard the Wings' brass has set, I likely wouldn't retire the numbers.

Lol at Z & Pav and not Feds/Osgood. Osgood owns most the Red Wings playoff records, plus 400 wins. feds the best player on the team throughout the 90's and 3 Cup era.

91 and 30 absolutely. Especially if you're even considering 13 & 40.

Osgood is not a HOF player. How can you put him in the rafters with other guys who were much better than him?

[Jacksoni 418]

As a short addendum, consider that Fedorov was asked by Bowman (due to injuries) to play defender in the mid 90's, which he did with honors, in a time when the game was much more physical.

Just like Datsyuk was a continous threat moving forward with the puck, Fedorov was the same with a big addon - he could take it from behind our goalie to the net all by himself, while making it look easy.

[kickazz 5,459]

Osgood didn't leave by choice.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=20010705&id=joZIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cnADAAAAIBAJ&pg=4863,2931656&hl=en

http://www.chron.com/sports/aeros/article/After-Hasek-trade-Osgood-wants-out-of-Detroit-2030123.php

The team could have traded one of Legace or Osgood but Osgood wanted out because he wanted to be number 1. He could have sucked it up and played alongside Hasek if he truly wanted to be a Red Wing.

"I just want it (a trade) to happen soon," Osgood said Tuesday. "I know I'm going to be traded. ... It's obvious I'm not going to be the No. 1 (goalie). It would serve no purpose (to come to camp). Hopefully, they will just get it done quickly."

If anything I feel like Jimmy Howard is handling the situation with Petr Mrazek better than Osgood did when Hasek came in. You might want to blame Holland for it because I know you're not a Holland fan, but let's be real about the issues here. If a player wants to play for a team, he'll do whatever he can to try and stay. Clearly Osgood was pissed off about the situation and Fedorov moved on because he wanted to move on.

Edited July 9, 2016 by kickazz

[shocky2002 36]

None are generational players IMO. NoNE of the above.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Seraph 240]

Every year I vote none. And every year I say, if there has to be a discussion thread about it, it's not happening.

There were no discussions about Yzerman or Lidstrom and whether or not they were going up in the rafters.

[shocky2002 36]

if there has to be a discussion thread about it, it's not happening.

an antiquated way of thinking, but one that fits the mold of the Red Wings franchise imo. They're one of the least progressive hockey teams in the modern era.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

I agree. I think with as much time that has passed a lot of people have forgotten just how good Fedorov was.

Imo Feds is the most complete player I've ever seen play the game. Wicked slap shot, extremely powerful wrist shot. Dangles, defensive, faceoffs, fastest skater in the world. I mean there's nothing I haven't seen him do.

The guy even fought on (very extremely) rare occasions lol. It wasn't a part of his game but this one is pretty nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AujzDuFj3eU

Pass Sports

Dave Strader still calling a Wings game

Bryan Murray behind the bench

Racine wearing #33

Eternal Mickey

Old times, wow

he could take it from behind