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LeftWinger

Jacob Trouba watch

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8 hours ago, kickazz said:

You're on a roll of misinterpretations today aren't ya?

F. Michael's original post said "A fair number of teams around the league today, and in years past have gotten away with a 'average' netminder, but with a solid defense."

To which you responded "How's that working for the Jets?"

To which I responded "Ask Crawford"

F. Michael's point stands (although there's many more variables). Maybe Crawford isn't as good as an example as say Fleury or Niemi. Chicago has an average goalies, maybe above average but had a solid defense in front of then - they've won 3 cups. 

I'll change that comment to "Ask Niemi"

No, Trouba isn't Keith. Point is, having a strong defense will go a long way on both defense and offense. 

Do we give up Mrazek for that? I'm not sure. Probably not. 

No misinterpretation at all. I'm not arguing with the concept. I was arguing with the reality of the suggestion to trade Mrazek for Trouba. I brought up the Jets because Trouba plays for them. He's (arguably) their third best defenseman. He hasn't made their defense good enough. So why would people think he would come here, as our #1, and make our defense so good? Same thing I meant when I responded to you. Doesn't matter that a great defense can make up for a less-than-great goalie; Trouba wouldn't make us a great defense.

 

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Kick... Buppy...  Why don't we take it a little closer to home?   

"ASK OSGOOD."    :ninja:

There is no reason we should trade Mrazek for Trouba.  We need building blocks for the future not to create another hole.

 

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8 hours ago, kickazz said:

You're on a roll of misinterpretations today aren't ya?

F. Michael's original post said "A fair number of teams around the league today, and in years past have gotten away with a 'average' netminder, but with a solid defense."

To which you responded "How's that working for the Jets?"

To which I responded "Ask Crawford"

F. Michael's point stands (although there's many more variables). Maybe Crawford isn't as good as an example as say Fleury or Niemi. Chicago has an average goalies, maybe above average but had a solid defense in front of then - they've won 3 cups. 

I'll change that comment to "Ask Niemi"

No, Trouba isn't Keith. Point is, having a strong defense will go a long way on both defense and offense. 

Do we give up Mrazek for that? I'm not sure. Probably not. 

This.

 

Now - don't get me wrong...I'm not suggesting that Trouba alone would solve our woes on the blueline - just that if it were possible to add him plus another Dman at the deadline (I know - snowballs chance in hell) these upgrades might help out to a point where we could get by with Howard in net.

 

As I mentioned earlier - I'd rather keep Mrazek.

14 minutes ago, Buppy said:

No misinterpretation at all. I'm not arguing with the concept. I was arguing with the reality of the suggestion to trade Mrazek for Trouba. I brought up the Jets because Trouba plays for them. He's (arguably) their third best defenseman. He hasn't made their defense good enough. So why would people think he would come here, as our #1, and make our defense so good? Same thing I meant when I responded to you. Doesn't matter that a great defense can make up for a less-than-great goalie; Trouba wouldn't make us a great defense.

 

While Trouba might be an upgrade to what we have on D - I'm not expecting any miracles...Holland would most likely have to add another quality Dman to make any significant improvement.

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9 minutes ago, e_prime said:

Kick... Buppy...  Why don't we take it a little closer to home?   

"ASK OSGOOD."    :ninja:

There is no reason we should trade Mrazek for Trouba.  We need building blocks for the future not to create another hole.

 

We need to find another 'Larry Murphy'...He found new life with Bowman in the Motor City.

 

I wish I could find a post game interview of Murph shortly after he became a Red Wing...He more or less ripped the Leafs on air...Was quite funny if I recall.

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1 minute ago, F.Michael said:

This.

 

Now - don't get me wrong...I'm not suggesting that Trouba alone would solve our woes on the blueline - just that if it were possible to add him plus another Dman at the deadline (I know - snowballs chance in hell) these upgrades might help out to a point where we could get by with Howard in net.

 

As I mentioned earlier - I'd rather keep Mrazek.

I'm more willing to trade DeKeyser for Trouba than Mrazek.

It could just be a lateral move when everything pans out, but having the possiblity of a top pairing RH defenseman for years to come is something I think we should pull the trigger on. 

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I don't think one D-man is the answer. I mean the only time one guy can make a difference (probably) is if it was an elite high end defenseman like Lidstrom. Trouba would just be a start. 

But trading Mrazek would be foolish. Unless it was an established 1D or 2D (we don't know how Trouba will turn out) in some sort of a package. But even then we'd be creating a possible hole. 

Edited by kickazz

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1 minute ago, e_prime said:

I'm more willing to trade DeKeyser for Trouba than Mrazek.

It could just be a lateral move when everything pans out, but having the possiblity of a top pairing RH defenseman for years to come is something I think we should pull the trigger on. 

How I miss the 80's/90's where multiple players were moved...Some crazy stuff back then...Damn the salary cap...

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16 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I don't think one D-man is the answer. I mean the only time one guy can make a difference (probably) is if it was an elite high end defenseman like Lidstrom. Trouba would just be a start. 

But trading Mrazek would be foolish. Unless it was an established 1D or 2D (we don't know how Trouba will turn out) in some sort of a package. But even then we'd be creating a possible hole. 

I don't disagree that a single defenseman is not the answer.  Also, and I'm quite sure that you'd (mostly) agree... there's not one single defenseman that could make a difference like Lidstrom in the league today... at least one that's readily available.

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6 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

so the Ducks don't want any salary back but they also don't want to pay Lindholm...The Jets' asking price is sky high....maybe look at buffalo and Ristlainen?
 

They signed him frank. 6 years - $5.4 million cap hit.  They're not looking to move him.

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/330

Edited by e_prime

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1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

We need to find another 'Larry Murphy'...He found new life with Bowman in the Motor City.

 

I wish I could find a post game interview of Murph shortly after he became a Red Wing...He more or less ripped the Leafs on air...Was quite funny if I recall.

 Jeff Blashill is no Scotty Bowman.

Ken Holland is no Scotty Bowman.

When Bowman was here, he ran this team. He told Holland, I need this guy, Holland asked how fast? Since Bowman left the organization, Holland has had full control of this team and look at where it has gotten us.

 

If Bowman were still here, trades would be made. Holland is too afraid that if he trades away a player, all of a sudden the player becomes a stud and we don't have them anymore.  I will mention Helm once here, I get that he is fast and a pretty good PK'er, but what was the urgency to re-sign him? If we had lost him, it wouldn't had been the end of the world. But Kenny thinks so. Hey this guy was good for us at one time, if I give him what he wants, maybe he'll be good again. It doesn't work that way. Look at all the recent Cup winners, they ALL made hard moves to improve their team in areas of need.  How many folks laughed at Kessel going to Pit? What about when LA acquire Richards and Carter? How about Chicago and all the moves they make what seems like every year?  I love the lore of the streak, but damn it, I hate that it might end because Holland refuses to try and upgrade his team. If he made the moves (lets say got Trouba and Fowler) and we still missed, well, at least he tried to make his team better, and they'll get even better next year, but no, we have to accept overpaid mediocre players for 5, 6, 7, 8 years, broken down players that he can't do anything with and a coach who can't seem to understand that you cannot force a bottom 6 player into a top 6 role.

 

and yes, I know he has inquired about these players, but he doesn't seem to have any good counter offers...they ask for Larkin, he says Pulkkinen, they laugh and say can you do better? Click.  Holland has got to get in his head that you may have to move some more valuable players to get what you need. Nobody in the hockey world expects Larkin to be dealt for Trouba, that'd be like asking Buffalo for Eichel. But other options are out there. Mantha was dangled for Phanuef, but Phanuef didn't want to come here (imagine that) so why not dangle him for Fowler or Trouba? Or some other higher end D-Man?

Edited by LeftWinger

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That's asking a lot. I think Holland should be on the hot seat as well. I don't want to see them fail, trust me, but is that what its going to take? If that's the case, we need to be out by January then.  Be out be January, have a sale, keep some vets, deal away others, keep most kids, deal away others to upgrade. Collect tons of draft picks, that then can maybe be turned into trade assets as well. I want to make the playoffs, but I also want to stop this insanity of these middling players. We're only going to lose one for sure come expansion. Basically our 12th best player. Who that is? Dunno, but it'll be a start. We must, MUST rid ourselves of at LEAST 3 larger contracts over the summer (or at deadline.) IMO, those 3 are Ericsson, Howard and one of Nyquist or Tatar.

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20 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

Holland makes room for our guys out of waiver options and we finally take a step forward next year

This could have been done last offseason and it would have been a heck of a lot easier to accomplish than it will be next offseason. What makes you think he will suddenly do it now?

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I'll be honest.  If this Trouba person walked in here right now, I wouldn't know who he was.  Never seen him play.  We definitely need help on defense, though.  It's hard to know how good our forwards are when the defensemen can't make tape to tape passes from the defensive zone and are totally useless from the point in the offensive zone. The 2002 Wings would struggle to play in front of this defense.    

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I like that this Trouba debacle keeps going. Imagine a fight be it vocal or physical. The longer it draws, the more it opens up for diplomacy of some sort. Exhaustion comes into play. We've all been there I would presume.

This is where weasel Ken Holland murmurs a suggestion (spiced up) that Winnipeg didn't want a month ago but right now it might be the best way to go.

It's opportunistic, el cheapo & working angles. It's today's Ken Holland.

Edit: It's not today's Ken Holland - it should be is what I meant.

Edited by Jacksoni

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