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FireCaptain

Red Wings trade Vanek to FLA for (D) Dylan McIlrath and Conditional 3rd Round Pick

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5 minutes ago, kliq said:

They traded a soon to be UFA and solid scorer for the best offer available. Would you have preferred they keep him for nothing? Also, a 3rd round pick is not "chump change". Just off the top of my head, Kris Letang, Tyson Barrie, and Shayne Gostisbehere were all 3rd rounders. Unlikely to find a stud Center in the 3rd, but high end D-men typically come in the later rounds

Nope - I think they did what they had to do...chump change was in context of the overall discussion not the specific trade. I think Holland did the best he could do and got far more positive out of his trades then he lost out on...:)

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Here's good analysis on why Vanek got such a low return.  Not for the anti-analytics crowd but REALITY FOLKS.  Vanek was sheltered and other coaches and teams that use analytics knew that what you see isn't what you necessarily get.  Florida, with their forward corps now healthy, can use him for what he is... an offensive threat, but not much else.

For example:  Wanna know why LAK weren't interested in Vanek?  They've already got an all offense guy in Gaborik.  

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/thomas-vanek-traded-small-return/

Quote

What may have caught some people off guard was the modest price. In exchange for Vanek, all the Florida Panthers had to pay was a third-round pick and the rights to AHL defenceman Dylan McIlrath.

...

Of the 400-odd NHL players who have played at least 200 minutes at 5-on-5 this season, Vanek is the most sheltered in terms of where his coach deploys him. In recent years, we’ve seen certain coaches become increasingly extreme in their player usage, deploying specific skaters as specialists in the offensive zone or defensive zone. ...

Vanek is averaging 2.8 points/hour at 5-on-5, which ranks him sixth in the NHL, just back of Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. He also leads the team with 11 power play points, something he wouldn’t be able to do if Blashill hadn’t found a job for him at even-strength.

Yet the Red Wings were still out-shot when Vanek was on the ice, even though for much of the year he has been propped up by excellent two-way centre Frans Nielsen. Nielsen has of course had much more difficult assignments when not playing with Vanek.

Florida didn’t pick up a true top-six forward on Wednesday, someone comparable to a Radim Vrbata or even an Alex Burrows. Instead, they grabbed a player who is a pure specialist, in much the same way as a faceoff-winning/penalty-killing fourth-line centre is. Vanek can score, but he’s a player who at this stage of his career needs to be carefully handled lest he become more liability than asset.

 

Edited by e_prime

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1 hour ago, kliq said:

Overall I am disappointed with the deal, but I do believe Holland got the best deal possible.

I admit I overestimated Vanek's value, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Vanek is a player who has had a roller coaster career, so naturally teams are leery. Not to mention wingers simply have less value then centers and d-men come this time of year.

Just look at what other wingers got:

Iginla - 2018 Conditional 4th-Round Pick

Stafford - conditional 6th-Round Pick

P.A. Parenteau  - 2017 6th-Round Pick

Dwight King - 2018 Conditional 4th-Round Pick

Vrbata - Not even traded

A very reasonable post.

Far too many here are upset (which as a fellow Red Wing fan I can understand) at the idea Holland didn't get enough in return.

Truth be told - I feel Holland did quite well overall at this deadline.

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56 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

A very reasonable post.

Far too many here are upset (which as a fellow Red Wing fan I can understand) at the idea Holland didn't get enough in return.

Truth be told - I feel Holland did quite well overall at this deadline.

 

This. There was a lot of overpayment this deadline, but it was all on dmen and centers. 

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Not sure if anyone posted this or not, but for those complaining about Dylan Mcllrath, I think he was just a throw in so Florida could make cap. He is a UFA after this season. Think of this trade as essentially Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

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Holland got fleeced, unless that was the best offer he got. Vanek does have a habit of dissapearing in the playoffs, and and will want quite a bit to re-sign. But really, a trade for a Dman who has spent most of his ten year pro career in the minors? Looks like he was in the Rangers system and had one season where he played a decent amount of NHL games. Other than that, nothing. 

I recall his name from awhile back. He's a big tough guy, but not that great a skater, and is prone to snapping out and taking stupid penalties. He probably won't see much time with the Wings unless he changes some things. They won't ice a guy who plays that way. As a fan, I def welcome a player with his size and toughness that can really fight, but not if he's going to be more of a liability than Kronwall or Errorsson when it comes to playing the game. 

The 3rd rounder is cool. Piling up picks is good good. But instead of the player+3rd plus retaining $1.3 mill in salary, a 2nd straight up would have been a lot better.

Oh well. They can't all be winners, right Kenny?

38 minutes ago, kliq said:

Not sure if anyone posted this or not, but for those complaining about Dylan Mcllrath, I think he was just a throw in so Florida could make cap. He is a UFA after this season. Think of this trade as essentially Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

Yeah I don't see him ever playing a game with the Wings. Total opposite of the players they like, plus pretty much a career minor leaguer, injury prone, prone to dumb penalties, etc.

Vanek for a 3rd sucks. Especially with the $1.3 mill in retained salary.

Edited by chaps80

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Holland got fleeced, unless that was the best offer he got. Vanek does have a habit of dissapearing in the playoffs, and and will want quite a bit to re-sign. But really, a trade for a Dman who has spent most of his ten year pro career in the minors?

McIlrath started playing pro hockey at 14?

The retained salary is irrelevant. They won't need the cap space and it's gone for next year. And that likely is the best offer. Florida probably needed to send a player for contract limit reasons.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Holland got fleeced, unless that was the best offer he got. Vanek does have a habit of dissapearing in the playoffs, and and will want quite a bit to re-sign. But really, a trade for a Dman who has spent most of his ten year pro career in the minors? Looks like he was in the Rangers system and had one season where he played a decent amount of NHL games. Other than that, nothing. 

I recall his name from awhile back. He's a big tough guy, but not that great a skater, and is prone to snapping out and taking stupid penalties. He probably won't see much time with the Wings unless he changes some things. They won't ice a guy who plays that way. As a fan, I def welcome a player with his size and toughness that can really fight, but not if he's going to be more of a liability than Kronwall or Errorsson when it comes to playing the game. 

The 3rd rounder is cool. Piling up picks is good good. But instead of the player+3rd plus retaining $1.3 mill in salary, a 2nd straight up would have been a lot better.

Oh well. They can't all be winners, right Kenny?

Yeah I don't see him ever playing a game with the Wings. Total opposite of the players they like, plus pretty much a career minor leaguer, injury prone, prone to dumb penalties, etc.

Vanek for a 3rd sucks. Especially with the $1.3 mill in retained salary.

Do you think Holland turned down a better offer??? Honestly?  Not trying to be rude but everything that came from the media said the offers just weren't there and there is a lot of info out there as to why that was the case. As far as all the wingers the offers weren't there, add in the fact he is a specialty player

As far as the picks go you point out would it have been better to just get the 2nd. Ill say yes and no, depending on who the pick is coming from. We ended up with a 3rd and a D "prospect" who can help in the AHL and maybe play 7th in the NHL next season if he puts the injuries behind him and protect guys like AA and Larkin. The key to the whole thing is Florida making the playoffs. If Florida makes playoffs we get Arizonas pick which could be as early as 63-65ish?

As for a straight 2nd Florida obviously wasn't giving it up, so say a team like Chicago or Pitt did. So they go on Win the cup or right outside of it. That second ends up being pick 59-62. 

so our options were:

63-65ish and McIlrath

or

59-62ish

I know where I fall. I think people get too hung up on the round number when the key number is the overall.

If this draft got me excited about one thing. It is the Idea of Green being a Rental next season. The Idea of having a PP Dman for sale on the deadline next season for another pick in the 2018 draft is exciting. Detroit is going to be making a lot of picks the next 2 seasons. and hopefully that includes 2 top 5 picks this year and next. 

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2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Vanek for a 3rd sucks. Especially with the $1.3 mill in retained salary.

Would you rather have had Vanek stayed and walk away during Free Agency? I don't get your logic here. 

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15 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Our third pairing should be Ericsson and Dylan 

E is done. With the acquistion of Dylan we now have more qualified RHers than LHers (finally).

On the right: Dylan, Green, Jensen, Sproul

On the left: Dekeyser, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet

Ill take the right side thank you

4 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Lord Mcilrath - foil for your knuckles?

And a scotch for your nerves?

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