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HockeytownRules19

Griffins Calder Cup Playoffs Thread

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29 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

It was a very slow game for the Griffs, but they found a way to stay close and finish it off in the 3rd, good game, given the adversity they displayed to not get discouraged and keep fighting back.  Congrats Griffins!

Now let the Wings have Svechnikov, Bertuzzi, Nosek, and possibly give McIlrath a shot.

But what about poor Miller, Helm, Glendening, and Ericsson? Where would they all go? They're such great guys who bring so much energy and other invaluable intangibles that are worth copious amounts of $ and contract length! ;)

But seriously, congrats to the Griffins on a great run! Very nice bonus to win on home ice, too.

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26 minutes ago, Detroit # 1 Fan said:

What a great run by the Griffins, huge for a lot of guys and their futures. Bertuzzi and Nosek are for sures, but I'd like to see Kenny shy away from any free agent signings. Trade for a defenceman? I'm in. But f*** anything else, time to let the kids take over.

I totally agree... we need to get some of these guys on the roster to cut costs and change the culture of the team.  It's too bad they are blocked by older, expensive versions of themselves.  Look at the contributions Pittsburgh got from a few fresh legs from their AHL team.

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1 hour ago, Detroit # 1 Fan said:

What a great run by the Griffins, huge for a lot of guys and their futures. Bertuzzi and Nosek are for sures, but I'd like to see Kenny shy away from any free agent signings. Trade for a defenceman? I'm in. But f*** anything else, time to let the kids take over.

You are fooling yourself.  The vets will stay, and we will stink.

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3 hours ago, mackel said:

I totally agree... we need to get some of these guys on the roster to cut costs and change the culture of the team.  It's too bad they are blocked by older, expensive versions of themselves.  Look at the contributions Pittsburgh got from a few fresh legs from their AHL team.

Just start watching hockey yesterday or something?

Mantha, Jensen, Ouellet, Larkin, Athanasiou, Marchenko, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Dekeyser, Jurco, Glendening, Andersson, Smith, Tatar, Nyquist.... Literally every year we bring kids up from GR.

Lack of kids is not the reason for our decline. Nor is promoting every kid we have the solution. Nosek will almost certainly be on the team from camp (unless he's dealt, taken by Vegas, or passed up by other kids). We will likely have 2 or 3 other open spots at forward, and it's not particularly unlikely that one or more will go to another kid. Even if not, injuries happen every year, and someone will see a fair amount of games.

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12 hours ago, Buppy said:

Just start watching hockey yesterday or something?

Mantha, Jensen, Ouellet, Larkin, Athanasiou, Marchenko, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Dekeyser, Jurco, Glendening, Andersson, Smith, Tatar, Nyquist.... Literally every year we bring kids up from GR.

Lack of kids is not the reason for our decline. Nor is promoting every kid we have the solution. Nosek will almost certainly be on the team from camp (unless he's dealt, taken by Vegas, or passed up by other kids). We will likely have 2 or 3 other open spots at forward, and it's not particularly unlikely that one or more will go to another kid. Even if not, injuries happen every year, and someone will see a fair amount of games.

Who pissed in your corn flakes?

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2 hours ago, kickazz said:

No one. You were wrong and were spewing out a false narrative and he called you out on it. 

What happened to this board?  How is it a false narrative?  

We have a bunch of overpaid middling players that can and should be replaced with younger, cheaper, middling with some upside.  

If you disagree fine, but the over the top melodrama is a bit much.  It's looking more and more like genuine discussion between fans has been replaced by gotcha backhanded commentary.

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25 minutes ago, mackel said:

What happened to this board?  How is it a false narrative?  

We have a bunch of overpaid middling players that can and should be replaced with younger, cheaper, middling with some upside.  

If you disagree fine, but the over the top melodrama is a bit much.  It's looking more and more like genuine discussion between fans has been replaced by gotcha backhanded commentary.

I mean, you're wrong. That's my point and Buppy gave you examples of how exactly you're wrong to which you reacted sensitively and you're also doing the same to my post in which I simply told you that you're wrong. 

You provided a false narrative (without any evidence) and he proved you wrong (with evidence). Plain and simple. 

So yeah, you're wrong. The message board is fine and the same as ever. Discussions without evidence get called out. Just as any discussion board out there. 

Edited by kickazz

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20 minutes ago, mackel said:

What happened to this board?  How is it a false narrative?  

We have a bunch of overpaid middling players that can and should be replaced with younger, cheaper, middling with some upside.  

If you disagree fine, but the over the top melodrama is a bit much.  It's looking more and more like genuine discussion between fans has been replaced by gotcha backhanded commentary.

Because you're indicating that we don't bring up AHL prospects. Which is wrong. We do. Quite a bit. Many work out. Many do not.

Pittsburgh has the luxury of pairing AHL callups with Malkin and Crosby, two of the best players in the world. My guess is Rust, Sheary, etc. would look pretty forgettable next to Frans Nielsen.

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39 minutes ago, brett said:

interesting to see who might make the wings out of camp next season...congrats everyone. 

I don't know if he'll make the team out of camp, probably depends on his waiver situation, and how our roster situation looks more than anything else but, if we were to make the playoffs, one guy we know needs to be up is Tyler Bertuzzi.  Kid is a beast in the playoffs.

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4 minutes ago, mackel said:

What happened to this board?  How is it a false narrative?  

We have a bunch of overpaid middling players that can and should be replaced with younger, cheaper, middling with some upside.  

If you disagree fine, but the over the top melodrama is a bit much.  It's looking more and more like genuine discussion between fans has been replaced by gotcha backhanded commentary.

Ironic, calling my post "over the top melodrama".

For the record, I didn't mean that to be offensive. More just trying to point out that you seemed to be ignoring or unaware of certain realities. 

As for the false narrative; there is the persistent idea that young players don't get a fair chance here, always being held down by vets. Largely fueled by the perception that our kids are better than they really are and that our vets are worse, plus some confirmation bias, and a little exaggeration thrown in for good measure.

We currently have 3 open forward spots, and 3 (some might argue 4) forwards in GR that could feasibly contribute in the NHL. Our vets, regardless of how middling and overpaid you think they are, aren't blocking anything (unless you want to count Frk).

We average about 3 rookies per year seeing significant time. Assuming that continues (and why wouldn't it), we should assume that all our good kids will see significant time next year (and there will be new kids in GR that everyone will think are being held down). Just like not long ago when our overpaid middling players were themselves the kids everyone wanted. Circle of life.

When you say we need to change our culture and bring up Pittsburgh, it implies that you don't know (or are willfully ignoring) the actual facts. We had more games played by rookies this year than Pittsburgh. How exactly are they doing something we aren't (pertaining to promoting young players)? 

 

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I'd be okay if Nosek is the only kid that makes the team in October. Both Svechnikov and Bertuzzi could use a little more time down in Grand Rapids. They will both be up at some point when the inevitable injuries hit. I'd also like Frk on the team, even if it's as the 13th forward. I'm also excited to see Hicketts, but he may see another full season down in GR before he gets a look.

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7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah, but his presence in the lockerroom is most likely why the Griffins won, let alone made it out of the 1st round.

Here is a good article on it.  For those of you who aren't living in Grand Rapids or follow the Griffins, Cleary's leadership was a big reason why the Griffins did well.  Bertuzzi's development was huge thanks to him as well.  Yea, I get it, some Wings fans are upset with Cleary or hate him.  Personally, I have no problems with him because he came to Grand Rapids and did what I expected him to do.  Be a leader, work with the kids, and help bring the Calder Cup back to Grand Rapids.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/05/13/daniel-cleary-embraces-time-griffins-red-wings/101570054/

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be okay if Nosek is the only kid that makes the team in October. Both Svechnikov and Bertuzzi could use a little more time down in Grand Rapids. They will both be up at some point when the inevitable injuries hit. I'd also like Frk on the team, even if it's as the 13th forward. I'm also excited to see Hicketts, but he may see another full season down in GR before he gets a look.

I agree with this.  I do think Bert and Svechnikov would both be best suited playing top line minutes in Grand Rapids instead of bottom 6 minutes in the NHL.  As for Frk, he really did very well for the Griffins, but I don't know if he is NHL material.  There is a reason why the Wings put him on waivers, Carolina picked him up, and then put him back on waivers for us to grab again.  We have to give him a shot, because if we don't, someone else will.  I just don't know.  He was a key piece to the Griffins this year though.  Oh, and I want another full season for Hicketts as well in the AHL.

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3 hours ago, Buppy said:

Ironic, calling my post "over the top melodrama".

For the record, I didn't mean that to be offensive. More just trying to point out that you seemed to be ignoring or unaware of certain realities. 

As for the false narrative; there is the persistent idea that young players don't get a fair chance here, always being held down by vets. Largely fueled by the perception that our kids are better than they really are and that our vets are worse, plus some confirmation bias, and a little exaggeration thrown in for good measure.

We currently have 3 open forward spots, and 3 (some might argue 4) forwards in GR that could feasibly contribute in the NHL. Our vets, regardless of how middling and overpaid you think they are, aren't blocking anything (unless you want to count Frk).

We average about 3 rookies per year seeing significant time. Assuming that continues (and why wouldn't it), we should assume that all our good kids will see significant time next year (and there will be new kids in GR that everyone will think are being held down). Just like not long ago when our overpaid middling players were themselves the kids everyone wanted. Circle of life.

When you say we need to change our culture and bring up Pittsburgh, it implies that you don't know (or are willfully ignoring) the actual facts. We had more games played by rookies this year than Pittsburgh. How exactly are they doing something we aren't (pertaining to promoting young players)? 

 

This is all well and good... but let's go back to the beginning...  my original post to which you rudely replied... I, in no way said kids aren't called up.  That may be what you projected on my post but it is NOT what was written.  

7 hours ago, kickazz said:

No one. You were wrong and were spewing out a false narrative and he called you out on it. 

Their was no false narrative... Bumpy's reply projected the notion that I said we don't bring young players up.  That is not what I posted... it may be what he/she incorrectly inferred I was thinking but the post doesn't allege that at all.

I did say that we should get some of these guys (specific) on the roster to cut costs (they are cheaper than Helm, Abdel, Glendenning) and that it may change the culture of the team (which seems stagnant to me).  That's not a false narrative and certainly not the narrative Bumpy was going on half cocked about.

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because you're indicating that we don't bring up AHL prospects. Which is wrong. We do. Quite a bit. Many work out. Many do not.

Pittsburgh has the luxury of pairing AHL callups with Malkin and Crosby, two of the best players in the world. My guess is Rust, Sheary, etc. would look pretty forgettable next to Frans Nielsen.

See above about the faulty assumption your first point is based on.  You make a good point about Crosby and Malkin, you could also include Guentzel.

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33 minutes ago, mackel said:

This is all well and good... but let's go back to the beginning...  my original post to which you rudely replied... I, in no way said kids aren't called up.  That may be what you projected on my post but it is NOT what was written.  

Their was no false narrative... Bumpy's reply projected the notion that I said we don't bring young players up.  That is not what I posted... it may be what he/she incorrectly inferred I was thinking but the post doesn't allege that at all.

I did say that we should get some of these guys (specific) on the roster to cut costs (they are cheaper than Helm, Abdel, Glendenning) and that it may change the culture of the team (which seems stagnant to me).  That's not a false narrative and certainly not the narrative Bumpy was going on half cocked about.

Umm...

On 6/13/2017 at 10:51 PM, mackel said:

It's too bad they are blocked by older, expensive versions of themselves. ...

Both my original reply and my follow-up directly refuted the argument that our kids are being blocked by vets. In case it was lost amid my half-cocked, over-the-top melodramatics, I refuted it specifically by pointing out our current roster situation and citing recent history as evidence that your concerns weren't particularly warranted.

But hey, I'll concede the 'false narrative' argument. I can't really prove you meant something. Instead I'll ask for some clarification so we can have some genuine discussion.

If you were implying that Pittsburgh is doing something differently with their prospects, what exactly do you mean? And if you weren't implying that, what was your point in bringing up Pittsburgh?

What specifically is this culture that needs to change? And if promoting kids from GR is the way to change it, how did it become stagnant when we promote kids from GR every year and why are our current kids any more likely to change it?

And if you want to argue that your point was all about cost-cutting and getting rid of players, what specifically do our kids have to do with that, since we don't have enough good kids to both fill out the rest of the roster and replace the players you mention?

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