Athanasiou Signed 1 year $1.4 mil

[kickazz 5,459]

2 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

Maybe Kane but I doubt it. Ovechkin is underrated defensively he just pushes offense but can play D when he wants to. These guys can steal pucks and stop a cycle and AA can't but not from lack of trying he's just not strong enough. His back checking is worse than these guys too and that absolutely falls on him with his speed. He'd be playing a lot more if he back checked ever

Right Ovie just doesnt give a s*** enough to try but he could be decent if he did. He does it sometimes

Edited September 11, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, joesuffP said:

Maybe Kane but I doubt it. Ovechkin is underrated defensively he just pushes offense but can play D when he wants to. These guys can steal pucks and stop a cycle and AA can't but not from lack of trying he's just not strong enough. His back checking is worse than these guys too and that absolutely falls on him with his speed. He'd be playing a lot more if he back checked ever

Ok, so I'll ask this again... Where is this notion that Athanasiou isn't strong enough coming from? First I've ever heard of it, and I'm really not sure what you're referring to. He's very strong on his skates. He's strong on the puck. Are you saying he doesn't even life bro? Because other than what he does or doesn't do in the weight room, I have no idea where you're getting this from...

[joesuffP 1,746]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Ok, so I'll ask this again... Where is this notion that Athanasiou isn't strong enough coming from? First I've ever heard of it, and I'm really not sure what you're referring to. He's very strong on his skates. He's strong on the puck. Are you saying he doesn't even life bro? Because other than what he does or doesn't do in the weight room, I have no idea where you're getting this from...

Puck battles, everything along the boards, forcing turnovers... He should be killing it on the forecheck and back checking and he's one of the worst on the team. Getting good at these won't make his offense dip, it will likely increase and he'll be a great top six instead of a specialty scorer that a lot of teams don't have room for anymore. See Vanek

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

1 minute ago, joesuffP said:

Puck battles, everything along the boards, forcing turnovers... He should be killing it on the forecheck and back checking and he's one of the worst on the team. Getting good at these won't make his offense dip, it will likely increase and he'll be a great top six instead of a specialty scorer that a lot of teams don't have room for anymore. See Vanek

Vanek had multiple offers though.   He was waiting for us 

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

Puck battles, everything along the boards, forcing turnovers... He should be killing it on the forecheck and back checking and he's one of the worst on the team. Getting good at these won't make his offense dip, it will likely increase and he'll be a great top six instead of a specialty scorer that a lot of teams don't have room for anymore. See Vanek

I think Athanasiou is reasonably good at board / puck battles. He also just finished his rookie season. Do you think after one full season a player is what he is? Not many offensive players make the NHL and immediately play solid defensively. I agree that he needs to work on his defensive game, but I don't think it's half as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

[joesuffP 1,746]

27 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Athanasiou is reasonably good at board / puck battles. He also just finished his rookie season. Do you think after one full season a player is what he is? Not many offensive players make the NHL and immediately play solid defensively. I agree that he needs to work on his defensive game, but I don't think it's half as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

I was going to add that I'm not saying AA is easily replaceable and I am a big fan of his. He's a raw talent right now and could become a great top six if he had the right attitude and just a commitment to be a great all around player. He has all the tools theirs no excuses. But also he's not setting the world on fire with his offense like people make it sound so expecting good defense to develop is something I expect from all players before they get a top six role. Imo he is one of, if not the worst defensive players of the forward group. Need to see improvements

Edited September 11, 2017 by joesuffP

[e_prime 1,936]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm confused by this... Why wouldn't I admit this? That has been the expectations here forever now... I just don't agree with it.

Players should be willing and capable of playing some level of defense, but not every player should be scrutinized for a lack of defense, if they're providing offense.

The way I see it, players should be evaluated based on whether or not they're providing the team with more positives or negatives. Take Mantha for example, I don't think coaching / management should tell him to concentrate on defense, because he's a big time offensive weapon. It's more beneficial to the team to have Mantha concentrate purely on offense, scoring 30 goals, 60 points than it is for him to play a two-way game scoring 20 goals, 40 points. As long as he's doing more good than bad, it's good for the team. A player like Glendening on the other hand, damn well better be playing lights out defense, because he's a disaster in the offensive zone.

I just wanted you to confirm it before someone says "kr doesn't believe that the Wings have been drilling defense defense defense into their players." 

...and for the record, I agree.  There needs to be a balance. While we shouldn't let anyone slack off on defense to the level of some the aforementioned players/superstars...  this notion that every forward also has to be some sort of defensive machine atop of being an offensive stalwart is stifling our ability to score goals.  Hell, some of our forwards are better defensively than some of our defensemen... and that's a big problem.

Edited September 12, 2017 by e_prime

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

 I feel AA should be let loose, and allowed to utilize his speed/ability to generate scoring chances that the Wings seem to lack.

Blashill going on, and on about players committing to become better defensively is getting stale.

Im a big fan of the babcock system, but yeah i almost think the rest of the team should be taught one defensive scheme, and then Larkin and AA told to just do them.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Defense is good.  Defense at the cost of having little offensive attack is bad.  I prefer the best defense is a good offense approach.  Blashill seems to prefer sitting in a shell all game getting out shot, as long as most of those shots aren't "prime" chances.  That's a loser mentality.  Let's try to not lose and hope the other team makes some mistakes that we can capitalize on, as opposed to let's force them to make mistakes through pressure.

[Shaman 713]

Being able to play at least decent defense is what separates someone on the third line from the top 6. If you're playing against the other team's best talent, you don't get to pass on defending.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

9 hours ago, Shaman said:

Being able to play at least decent defense is what separates someone on the third line from the top 6. If you're playing against the other team's best talent, you don't get to pass on defending.

The problem is, Blashill doesn't seem to want decent defense, he expects everyone to have a defense first mentality.  He's like a not very bright politician sticking to a few buzz words in an interview.  Defend.  Heavy on the puck.  Play heavy.  Good in corners.  Net front.  Blah blah blah.  While he does that, he ignores his players' strengths and tries to fit them into his predetermined roles he wants them to play.

[Dabura 12,232]

24 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

The problem is, Blashill doesn't seem to want decent defense, he expects everyone to have a defense first mentality.  He's like a not very bright politician sticking to a few buzz words in an interview.  Defend.  Heavy on the puck.  Play heavy.  Good in corners.  Net front.  Blah blah blah.  While he does that, he ignores his players' strengths and tries to fit them into his predetermined roles he wants them to play.

To be fair, that's every politician and every hockey coach.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

38 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

The problem is, Blashill doesn't seem to want decent defense, he expects everyone to have a defense first mentality.  He's like a not very bright politician sticking to a few buzz words in an interview.  Defend.  Heavy on the puck.  Play heavy.  Good in corners.  Net front.  Blah blah blah.  While he does that, he ignores his players' strengths and tries to fit them into his predetermined roles he wants them to play.

What are you basing this on, though? We didn't do most of those things last year. If that's what he expects, he didn't get it. And in interviews, I never heard him say anything like "defence first."

I feel like people see are struggling offence from last year and just load the blame on Blashill. Sure, he deserves some, but much is just the state of the team. We had a lot of underperforming players (Larkin, Nyquist, Sheahan etc) new inconsistent guys (AA, Mantha) loss of Pav's production, Defence is kind of a mess and forwards are compensating by playing more D...

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

The problem is, Blashill doesn't seem to want decent defense, he expects everyone to have a defense first mentality.  He's like a not very bright politician sticking to a few buzz words in an interview.  Defend.  Heavy on the puck.  Play heavy.  Good in corners.  Net front.  Blah blah blah.  While he does that, he ignores his players' strengths and tries to fit them into his predetermined roles he wants them to play.

There is so much baseless nonesense in this post, I can't even pick it apart. It's like finding a needle in a poopstack.

Blashill gives AA 63% offensive zone starts. Gives him PP time and gives him lesser competition. AA is Vanek 2.0 except he kills penalties because they want him to be versatile. 

Excuse Blashill for wanting more out of a player he thinks can do more. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by kickazz

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Granted - much of the issues this past season is on the players, but IMHO it also reflects on the coaching staff as well.

As I said on another thread - getting a competent coach behind the bench would probably see better results.

That said I must agree with DickieDunn in that Blashill appears to stunting the potential of some of the players by making them change-up their game, and their role.

I agree that Blash didn't get the most out of the group, but when we talk just in overarching statements about Blash making everyone playing only defensive hockey it's not true and seems more like a caricature.

To talk specifically about the treatment of AA, for instance. AA really didn't play much of a defensive game. So why do people keep saying he was forced to play a defensive game? He was 12th in the league for goals per 60 minutes. So how can it be true that the style of play that he played stunted his offence? He scored a whole lot for the time he was given.

I think the valid complaint is the amount of time he was given. With a team as offensively starved as ours, we should have given more minutes to him and Vanek. But even in that, I think the choice is understandable at least. Offensive players that aren't defensive as well are usually given roles on the 3rd line unless they score like Ovechkin or Kane. That's what we also did with him and Vanek (and Minny and the Habs also did with Vanek).

And I don't think AA needed to be benched - especially with our under-performers. But the reasons were valid. AA did disappear for stretches. Blash's comment in these times weren't even much to do with defence and more just compete level:

"I think there's nights where he's real engaged and I think he's an outstanding player, nights where that engagement isn't the same, whether it's the competitive level or the engagement or the attention to detail," Blashill said. "It's just hopefully a maturation process for him that he can continue to make sure that every night that competitive level is at the level it needs to be to be successful in this league.

"It's a league where everybody's so close in talent ... if you don't compete like crazy, then it's hard to be successful. Compete means win puck battles, make sure that you don't get beat defensively. I talked to Ted Lindsay before the season and Ted said, 'Just make sure and tell those players if they go into the corner with another player and they don't come out with the puck, they're a horse-blank hockey player.' That's what it comes down to. Competitiveness, desire to win matters the most. It trumps talent."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/12/jeff_blashill_red_wings_andrea.html

Edited September 12, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Maybe the guy wants out? 

[joesuffP 1,746]

KHL offer has been on the table for months. If he didn't care to play in the NHL he would have signed a log time ago

[kickazz 5,459]

The Blashill treatment of AA is made out to be worse than it really is. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, joesuffP said:

KHL offer has been on the table for months. If he didn't care to play in the NHL he would have signed a log time ago

Exactly. If Athanasiou had any interest in playing in the KHL, he would have signed a contract over there by now. He'll sign a contract with Detroit in the coming weeks. That I'm not concerned about, I just hope a deal gets worked out before training camp / preseason...

[AtlantaHotWings 1,124]

I still stick by my prediction 2.1/2.2 x 2 years  3 days before camp...

[LeftWinger 5,129]

Hmmmm, guy has same agent as AA. Neither have contracts and seem far apart in offers....

 

[kliq 3,763]

Didnt the Trouba situation teach these guys anything? These RFA's have no leverage, they are just going to end up costing themselves money.

When its an RFA without arbitration rights its always to the teams advantage (unless its a McDavid type).

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Hmmmm, guy has same agent as AA. Neither have contracts and seem far apart in offers....

 

Wow same agent as AA? This guy must be ridiculous. I don't understand how players can be this naive and blindly listen to these guys.

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Didnt the Trouba situation teach these guys anything? These RFA's have no leverage, they are just going to end up costing themselves money.

When its an RFA without arbitration rights its always to the teams advantage (unless its a McDavid type).

Not to mention AA misses training camp, which can be pretty important to having a good start to the season. Say he gets signed later and has a slow start, screwing his own chances to rack up his stats to demand a high pay raise when the next time comes.

Again if it was me, I would have taken the $2 million and set myself up better for the next contract in the NHL. But millenials these days, they just want everything done for them, lazyasses!

Edited September 16, 2017 by kickazz

[Juklitz 85]

7 hours ago, kickazz said:

Wow same agent as AA? This guy must be ridiculous. I don't understand how players can be this naive and blindly listen to these guys.

Actually, the same agent (Ferris) is working for Sam Bennett and the story was the same.. 

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

13 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Hmmmm, guy has same agent as AA. Neither have contracts and seem far apart in offers....

 

Same agent as Tobias Rieder as well and Rieder didn't sign with the Yotes until Oct 3rd of last year. Looks like this agent has a history of playing hardball with these GMs. And if he doesn't get what he wants he threatens them with the KHL.

I feel that Andreas Athanasiou will resign back with the Wings in the next couple of days, A deal for 2 years $3.8 million is more then fair for AA.