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Steve Yzerman to step down as GM for TBL. Will serve in "Advisory Role".

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8 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Acquiring additional draft picks and drafting well. 

He actually hasn't really cleaned up any of "his own mess of bloated contracts and no-trade clauses"

It remains to be seen how these draft picks pan out.  This forum has been high in the past on players which amounted to nothing.  I still don't see the big deal with AA.  DeKeyser is a waste of space.  There are so many others that aren't even on the team anymore.  Holland can't draft a good defenseman if his life depended on it.  I do like Larkin and Mantha and hope they continue to develop, but everyone else is unproven or sucks.  

The contracts though are embarrassing.  If you have the highest payroll in the league for two consecutive seasons, you shouldn't be one of the worst teams in hockey.  Unless, your GM just sucks and overpays everybody.    

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Just now, GMRwings1983 said:

It remains to be seen how these draft picks pan out.  This forum has been high in the past on players which amounted to nothing.  I still don't see the big deal with AA.  DeKeyser is a waste of space.  There are so many others that aren't even on the team anymore.  Holland can't draft a good defenseman if his life depended on it.  I do like Larkin and Mantha and hope they continue to develop, but everyone else is unproven or sucks.  

The contracts though are embarrassing.  If you have the highest payroll in the league for two consecutive seasons, you shouldn't be one of the worst teams in hockey.  Unless, your GM just sucks and overpays everybody.    

Ah, this is what I needed. All the positivity lately was making me not recognize this place. 

Everyone universally praises our draft, we in turn appreciate that Holland had a good draft and praise him like everyone else, this guy s***s on it because the guys we just drafted a couple months ago haven't proven their worth yet. Classic. 

With you on some of the contracts. 

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3 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

It remains to be seen how these draft picks pan out.  This forum has been high in the past on players which amounted to nothing.  I still don't see the big deal with AA.  DeKeyser is a waste of space.  There are so many others that aren't even on the team anymore.  Holland can't draft a good defenseman if his life depended on it.  I do like Larkin and Mantha and hope they continue to develop, but everyone else is unproven or sucks.  

The contracts though are embarrassing.  If you have the highest payroll in the league for two consecutive seasons, you shouldn't be one of the worst teams in hockey.  Unless, your GM just sucks and overpays everybody.    

The bold parts: totally agree. Although I think Zadina is as close to a sure thing as you can get and Rasmussen and Veleno aren't too far behind. 

The Tatar trade, the Smith trade, even the Datsyuk trade. Just to name three. I'll take this Holland over the Kyle Quincey for a 1st or Legwand for Jarnkrok Holland all day long. When people say Holland's done a good job the last couple of years, this is what they mean. 

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12 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

It remains to be seen how these draft picks pan out.  This forum has been high in the past on players which amounted to nothing.  I still don't see the big deal with AA.  DeKeyser is a waste of space.  There are so many others that aren't even on the team anymore.  Holland can't draft a good defenseman if his life depended on it.  I do like Larkin and Mantha and hope they continue to develop, but everyone else is unproven or sucks.  

The contracts though are embarrassing.  If you have the highest payroll in the league for two consecutive seasons, you shouldn't be one of the worst teams in hockey.  Unless, your GM just sucks and overpays everybody.    

Dude, you're being super negative for no good reason.  AA was a 4th round pick, DD was undrafted.  Who cares if they aren't top end guys, they're still WAY better than anyone could have reasonably expected them to be. Both of them are 1st or 2nd round talents who didn't require that we expend the picks.  Bertuzzi is looking like a really good pick, Hronek too.  ALL of this year's picks were ranking (by one organization or another) in the 1st round, and we got all 4 of them with 2 firsts and 2 seconds. 

There are a few (potentially) legitimate criticisms of our recent drafting, so I don't think Holland is untouchable there.  But pointing at AA, Dekeyser, and implying that others are unproven seems pretty flimsy. 

 

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2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'd trade most of, if not all of these guys for a superstar center and Norris caliber D-man. So I'm not sure we agree on this last point. 

So you'd trade 6 talented players for 1 or 2 superstars.  Ask the Islanders, Oilers, Sabres and Blackhawks how well having one or two superstars and bunch of warm bodies is working out.  Its a team sport and we have a lot of good prospects waiting to create that team.

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1 minute ago, xtrememachine1 said:

So you'd trade 6 talented players for 1 or 2 superstars.  Ask the Islanders, Oilers, Sabres and Blackhawks how well having one or two superstars and bunch of warm bodies is working out.  Its a team sport and we have a lot of good prospects waiting to create that team.

Indeed - the Hawks might've won a few more Cups had there not been a salary cap...They lost some great players over the past several seasons.

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7 minutes ago, xtrememachine1 said:

So you'd trade 6 talented players for 1 or 2 superstars.  Ask the Islanders, Oilers, Sabres and Blackhawks how well having one or two superstars and bunch of warm bodies is working out.  Its a team sport and we have a lot of good prospects waiting to create that team.

No clear #1 center and no clear #1 D. Can't win without this and they are the hardest pieces to acquire. So yes. Give me a foundation of two superstars at the two most crucial positions and I'll build around this. Which is actually what Yzerman did. 

Also, Oilers have no Heddman. And the Balckhawks actually won three cups with a superstar center and a norris calibre D. Before the cap caught up with them.  

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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22 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Dude, you're being super negative for no good reason.  AA was a 4th round pick, DD was undrafted.  Who cares if they aren't top end guys, they're still WAY better than anyone could have reasonably expected them to be. Both of them are 1st or 2nd round talents who didn't require that we expend the picks.  Bertuzzi is looking like a really good pick, Hronek too.  ALL of this year's picks were ranking (by one organization or another) in the 1st round, and we got all 4 of them with 2 firsts and 2 seconds. 

There are a few (potentially) legitimate criticisms of our recent drafting, so I don't think Holland is untouchable there.  But pointing at AA, Dekeyser, and implying that others are unproven seems pretty flimsy. 

 

I mean DK does suck and is overpaid though. They jumped the gun on what he’s worth. 

Holland did pretty good the last two years; made up for some dumb decisions with contracts like trading Tatar and flipping Vanek, drafting well. 

But imo, much like coaches, GM’s have a length of stay as well and I think Holland should move on soon. Yzerman would be a good replacement and a fresh direction.  

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6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

No clear #1 center and no clear #1 D. Can't win without this and they are the hardest pieces to acquire. So yes. Give me a foundation of two superstars at the two most crucial positions and I'll build around this. Which is actually what Yzerman did. 

Also, Oilers have no Heddman. And the Balckhawks actually won three cups with a superstar center and a norris calibre D. Before the cap caught up with them.  

You're underestimating what we have.  Larkin is easily a #1 center.  He's an all star and team leader and he's only 21.  Rasmussen has been tearing up the WHL for the past two years and has looked good at pretty much every level he's played in.  Not sure what would qualify as a good #1 center, but I feel like we already have two good ones.  Good defensemen in general are pretty hard to find these days, which is why they're so expensive on FA.  Neither LV or Washington had elite level dmen like Hedman and both made it to the Finals.  An elite level dman isn't required to be successful in the league anymore.  It helps, for sure, but is not required. Ottawa has one of the best, if not the best, and weren't even close to the playoffs.

I realize the Hawks won 3 Cups, but it wasn't just Kane, Toews, Keith and a bunch of scrubs either.  You said you'd rather have 2 superstars, which is all the Blackhawks have now and finished last, than a pool of talented prospects that we currently have.  The Islanders had a superstar center for years, never panned out for them.  Buffalo has had Jack Eichel for a few years and they're still in the basement.  I'll take the depth over the superstar.

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

As much as I would love for Yzerman to "come home" to take over as General Manager of the Detroit Red Wings, I'm not convinced it'll happen... However, the possibility of it happening is much better now than it was a couple day ago...

Holland has done a fantastic job over the past couple years, but Yzerman taking over would be unreal. Keeping my fingers crossed...

So is Yzerman...

You forgot Helm for Sergachev...

Yzerman was born in BC, but grew up in Ontario.

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1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

The bold parts: totally agree. Although I think Zadina is as close to a sure thing as you can get and Rasmussen and Veleno aren't too far behind. 

The Tatar trade, the Smith trade, even the Datsyuk trade. Just to name three. I'll take this Holland over the Kyle Quincey for a 1st or Legwand for Jarnkrok Holland all day long. When people say Holland's done a good job the last couple of years, this is what they mean. 

Yeah, the Tatar traded was a good trade.  That was more akin to theft actually and I have no idea what McPhee was doing.  

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Dude, you're being super negative for no good reason.  AA was a 4th round pick, DD was undrafted.  Who cares if they aren't top end guys, they're still WAY better than anyone could have reasonably expected them to be. Both of them are 1st or 2nd round talents who didn't require that we expend the picks.  Bertuzzi is looking like a really good pick, Hronek too.  ALL of this year's picks were ranking (by one organization or another) in the 1st round, and we got all 4 of them with 2 firsts and 2 seconds. 

There are a few (potentially) legitimate criticisms of our recent drafting, so I don't think Holland is untouchable there.  But pointing at AA, Dekeyser, and implying that others are unproven seems pretty flimsy. 

 

No good reason?  You mean other than being one of the worst teams in hockey the last two seasons? 

I understand they're rebuilding, however, that would be easier to accept if this team wasn't so up against the salary cap.  Feels like a big waste of money that Holland has dished out.  Poor cap management.    

Like I said, we'll see how the picks turn out.  I'm tired of hearing about how good someone will be and then actually finding out otherwise.  There's been too much for too long around here.  

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1 hour ago, GMRwings1983 said:

No good reason?  You mean other than being one of the worst teams in hockey the last two seasons? 

I understand they're rebuilding, however, that would be easier to accept if this team wasn't so up against the salary cap.  Feels like a big waste of money that Holland has dished out.  Poor cap management.    

Like I said, we'll see how the picks turn out.  I'm tired of hearing about how good someone will be and then actually finding out otherwise.  There's been too much for too long around here.  

Honestly, who cares. When you are a re-building team, cap doesnt matter, in fact some teams take cap on when they are re-building to acquire assets. Its when you are contenders that you have to be careful with the cap. I understand the optics of it, but ultimately it really doesn't matter. Once our core is in place, that is when cap management becomes so important.

If in 2018 Chris Illitch is netting a few million less, I cant say that hurts my feelings.

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2 hours ago, kliq said:

Honestly, who cares. When you are a re-building team, cap doesnt matter, in fact some teams take cap on when they are re-building to acquire assets. Its when you are contenders that you have to be careful with the cap. I understand the optics of it, but ultimately it really doesn't matter. Once our core is in place, that is when cap management becomes so important.

If in 2018 Chris Illitch is netting a few million less, I cant say that hurts my feelings.

This.

The only time the cap is a concern is when you're a contender, and as a GM you're doing what you can to keep the team together...Chicago is a good example.

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14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

He will still be an advisor for Tampa, but he will also spend a ton of time as a "fan" of our team, watching all the home games as a "guest" of The Ilitch's from their private suite, "getting to know" our (soon to be his) players.

This IS happening. Yzerman will be drafting Jack Hughes and signing Erik Karlsson to Detroit come summer. 

12 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Which is EXACTLY what I eluded too! He will be catching plenty of games at the LCA, assessing the team and getting ideas on how he can make the team better, when he becomes GM. Leadership is in his blood. He will most definitely have ideas and be playing armchair GM (like we all do) when it comes to "HIS" team. I cannot wait for him to take over. Holland has done very well in recent years, but he will take the Seattle franchise and build it from the ground up. Isn't Holland from Western Canada anyhow? I believe he is a BC boy. That's pretty close to Seattle.

It's time. Holland will step aside after this season and Yzerman will take over, with Draper as his Asst. GM. And as an added bonus, Yzerman WILL recommend that #91 be retired. Since Marion loves him so much, she will let by-gones be by-gones. He will employ Lidstrom (the REAL Swedish Don) to "convince" Karlsson to sign in Detroit come July. I cannot wait for his shrewd deals next summer! This TDL, Holland will be making deals that he and Yzerman have discussed "off the record." Holland will deal Nyquist and Daley to Tampa for their Stanley Cup run. Coming to Detroit will be Cal Foote and Taylor Raddish. Tampa will win the Cup, Yzerman will get his name on it again, then be our official GM before the draft. :)

Yzerman to the GM, Fedorov to the rafters! Stanley Cup by 2022. Oh, and Darren Helm will be the first Captain in Seattle.

Calm down, dude. You're going to ruin your sock.

 

10 hours ago, xtrememachine1 said:

True.  We don't have a Stamkos or a Hedman in the pipeline, but we have a Larkin,  a Mantha and an Athanasiou on the roster right now.  We have a Rasmussen, Zadina and Veleno ready to go in a couple years or less.  In all likelihood, we'll probably also get another lottery pick next June to add to this pool of really talented prospects.  I'm biased, obviously, but I feel like the Wings will be in a better situation next year than TB was when he joined them.

Biased, extremely optimistic, or both. 

TB had more than just Stamkos and Hedman. They also had the 6th overall pick, and were also rebuilding so could also expect more lottery picks (and in fact did add the 3rd and 10th OA picks within a few years). Their prospect pool didn't look very good, but I'm sure they had a few that were still thought to have potential. They also had some good veterans in St.Louis, Lecavalier, Malone, Foster, Tanguay, and some decent younger guys in Downie, Purcell, and Meszaros. 

I don't think our situation is anywhere close to what Yzerman walked into in TB. Add the fact that he had Datsyuk/Zetterberg level draft luck in his 2nd year, and those two other top-10 picks he's probably at the point where any further failures to win a Cup starts earning him blame.

 

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On 9/12/2018 at 4:10 PM, GMRwings1983 said:

No good reason?  You mean other than being one of the worst teams in hockey the last two seasons? 

I understand they're rebuilding, however, that would be easier to accept if this team wasn't so up against the salary cap.  Feels like a big waste of money that Holland has dished out.  Poor cap management.    

Like I said, we'll see how the picks turn out.  I'm tired of hearing about how good someone will be and then actually finding out otherwise.  There's been too much for too long around here.  

A)  Who cares about being up against the cap, it's Illitch money not yours, and as you've already acknowledged we're rebuilding and therefore shouldn't be signing FA's anyway so what do we need the cap space for?

B) Tired of hearing about people being good?  Like who?  AA and Dekeyser weren't supposed to be good.  They were a 4th round draft pick and undrafted free agent.  The fact that they're on the team means they're better than originally anticipated.  The guys who were supposed to be good (Larkin, Mantha) are.  Several other guys have turned out better than expected as well. 

Edited by kipwinger

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10 hours ago, Buppy said:

Calm down, dude. You're going to ruin your sock.

Sock? Can't say I know what that term means, but ya, I am just taking the fantasy route!

I do believe he will be our GM by this time next year though.

23 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

As much as I would love for Yzerman to "come home" to take over as General Manager of the Detroit Red Wings, I'm not convinced it'll happen... However, the possibility of it happening is much better now than it was a couple day ago...

Holland has done a fantastic job over the past couple years, but Yzerman taking over would be unreal. Keeping my fingers crossed...

So is Yzerman...

You forgot Helm for Sergachev...

Nah, Helm is going to Seattle with Holland. :)

He will be their Captain. Holland will give us a 1st round pick for him! :lol: (ok, just joking about that.)

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

A)  Who cares about being up against the cap, it's Illitch money not yours, and as you've already acknowledged we're rebuilding and therefore shouldn't be signing FA's anyway so what do we need the cap space for?

I generally agree with this, but some might suggest spending so much on salaries will drive up ticket prices and no one is interested in paying big dollars to watch a bad team play.  That logic is somewhat flawed though because ticket prices should simply be driven by the market and nothing else....not sure if it always works that way though.

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3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

A)  Who cares about being up against the cap, it's Illitch money not yours, and as you've already acknowledged we're rebuilding and therefore shouldn't be signing FA's anyway so what do we need the cap space for?

B) Tired of hearing about people being good?  Like who?  AA and Dekeyser we're supposed to be good.  They were a 4th round draft pick and undrafted free agent.  The fact that they're on the team means they're better than originally anticipated.  They guys who were supposed to be good (Larkin, Mantha) are.  Several other guys have turned out better than expected as well. 

The point is if you're going to spend, spend on something good.  Being up against the cap while you're one of the league's bottom feeders is embarrassing.  They could have used the money differently.  

Please don't make me name all the prospects that LGW posters have touted in the 10 years that I've been here.  I'm still waiting for a good defenseman or goalie out of the bunch.  If you haven't developed a good goalie or defenseman in 10 years, you end up looking like the current version of the Red Wings.    

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3 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

I generally agree with this, but some might suggest spending so much on salaries will drive up ticket prices and no one is interested in paying big dollars to watch a bad team play.  That logic is somewhat flawed though because ticket prices should simply be driven by the market and nothing else....not sure if it always works that way though.

I would highly likely assume that the Wings as a $650+-million dollar organization forecast their costs (as does every big time $$ organization) from year-to-year, 3 year, 5 year, 10 year outlook.  In my experience, this forecasting with an aggressive stance, and tends to overstate costs and expenses for protection (and for publicly held companies...better odds to "beat the street").  I would guess that they forecast for their team to always be at the top cap $ for their employee cost/expenses.  Meaning, they forecast to always be at the cap$.  I don't think they make forecast with anything but that as it would leave them in operational position of vulnerability.  They understand the huge cash that can/would come with being successful (going to the playoffs/long runs in the playoffs/winning the Stanley Cup)...so to not forecast that they will be at the cap$ would be an error.  "We'd like to be successful, but we didn't budget for it"...or "we can't acquire X player because we didn't budget for his salary".

I couldn't care less if the Wings are at the cap and I don't think this ultimately effects ticket prices.  However, a brand new $850+ million dollar arena is a different story when it comes to ticket/concession prices.

Edited by Learn2LuvIt

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Yzerman as GM in Detroit will depend on 2 things.

 

Does he want to be a GM?  What he said in his presser seems like he doesn't.

Does Holland stick around as GM in Detroit?  Who knows here. 

I also saw somewhere TB wanted him to sign an extension and he didn't want to.

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23 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Yzerman as GM in Detroit will depend on 2 things.

 

Does he want to be a GM?  What he said in his presser seems like he doesn't.

Does Holland stick around as GM in Detroit?  Who knows here. 

I also saw somewhere TB wanted him to sign an extension and he didn't want to.

My guess is he'll take a break to spend some quality time with the family, then eventually get back in to the swing of things closer to home (with the Wings). May not be as the GM, or at least not immediately, but I'd be shocked if he doesn't get some kind of job with the organization in the future. 

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