2023 Offseason Thread

[marcaractac 3,963]

4 hours ago, marcaractac said:

They basically didn't. They were a really good, but not great team there for a stretch of years. They happened to get hot at the right time one season and went the distance. 

I feel like this can be accomplished via UFA next summer tbh. 

 

3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Next summer or this upcoming summer?  

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2023 1OA

 

For

 

2023 1sts, 2nds, 3rds

2024 1sts, 2nds, 3rds

2025 1st

 

 

[Walman6million 250]

Babcock is rumored to be garnering interest. And Bergevin is rumored to be in play for the GM spot in CGY. Lets ******* GOOOOO

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Babcock is rumored to be garnering interest. And Bergevin is rumored to be in play for the GM spot in CGY. Lets ******* GOOOOO

We need a good lines thread

[Dabura 12,207]

11 hours ago, marcaractac said:

I feel like this can be accomplished via UFA next summer tbh. 

I mean, there's no way we're solving all of our problems this summer, obviously. But I feel that adding a first-line scoring winger is something we need to do in the here and now. We can maybe address it next summer too - but we also need to be addressing it right now. Because, as things currently stand, we have paper-thin scoring depth at forward. Not even a legitimate top line. If we're thinking playoffs next season, that has to change - in a big way.

[Dabura 12,207]

The Athletic is staffed by assholes, but I like it when they agree with me:

https://archive.is/3zEs6

Quote

But when parsing the league’s haves and have-nots, one big difference seems to be the relative lack of weak links on the playoff teams. Even in cases where there are a few so-called “anchors,” most of the league’s playoff teams have less of their roster at or below that zero goals above replacement (GAR) line than their non-playoff counterparts.

 

The implication being: Whether a team has superstars or not, one of the best things it can do to help itself is not to have glaring weaknesses down the lineup. And if you have those weaknesses (hello, Dallas, Edmonton and Florida) the brighter your stars must be.

 

In those teams’ cases, Miro Heiskanen, Jason Robertson, Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl and Matthew Tkachuk certainly fit the bill.

 

But for the Red Wings, the remaining teams to look at here are Carolina and Seattle. Yes, both teams have made recent picks inside the draft’s top two, landing Andrei Svechnikov and Matty Beniers. But neither of those players is — at least as of yet — the kind of unattainable superstar the Red Wings lack. Svechnikov isn’t even playing for the Hurricanes right now due to a knee injury.

 

Beniers, meanwhile, is in fact top 50 in the league by Evolving Hockey’s GAR/60 metric — certainly a star performer. But the player at the top of the metric for the Kraken is Jared McCann, Seattle’s rather unheralded 40-goal scorer who was a late first-round pick, exposed in the expansion draft, and has played less than 15 minutes a night in these playoffs.

 

Beniers is the better player, and looks the part of the two-way force he was drafted to be. This season he was a 57-point player — again, an excellent one due to those two-way impacts, and the likely Calder Trophy winner. But that’s still not an impossible-to-find type of piece like the McDavids, MacKinnons or Tkachuks of the world.

 

The Kraken, however, don’t need him to be one of those players. Seattle is built on depth, with only McCann and Beniers over 21 goals — but 12 forwards scoring double-digit goals on the season. For a team lacking in classical star power, they were tied for fourth in the NHL in goals per game (3.52) in the regular season.

 

Carolina is a different flavor, leaning more on defense, but the top-level glance is similar: only two players who scored more than 23 goals in the regular season (Sebastian Aho and Martin Nečas) but 10 forwards with 10 or more goals. Svechnikov, who battled injury, would have joined that first group if healthy, but the ‘Canes are showing right now that they can win even without the biggest potential game breaker in their lineup.

 

The closest thing they have to true superstars, without him, is an excellent but not necessarily dynamic center in Sebastian Aho and some high-end defensemen in Brent Burns, Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce.

 

For the Red Wings, that should sound familiar. They have a similar center to Aho in Dylan Larkin who just put up 79 points in 80 games this season. And while their defense corps is not on the Hurricanes’ level today, it certainly seems like that’s what they’re building toward with Seider and Edvinsson as young pillars, Jake Walman as a surprise building block, and lots of depth — with real upside — on the way.

 

In time, then, it would not be crazy to believe the Red Wings could build something resembling these current Hurricanes, who are en route to their second Eastern Conference final in five years.

 

But it won’t happen automatically, and as you might expect, trying to build a contender without that classic No. 1-pick type of star is a fine needle to thread.

 

Detroit will need, of course, to get its best players to continue to raise their level — whether it’s their established stars like Larkin, or their rising younger talent such as Seider, Edvinsson, Kasper or Raymond. But as long as it doesn’t have that franchise-changer at the top, Detroit will need to be just as mindful to minimize drag elsewhere in the lineup. Among skaters with at least 500 minutes played this season, the Hurricanes had just one player below zero goals above replacement. The Red Wings had seven.

 

As with all stats where on-ice numbers are involved, there’s likely a rising-tide effect at play. When you’re on a better team, fewer players take hits for their on-ice numbers because the things happening shift-to-shift are more positive.

 

But the bottom line is an unsurprising one: If the Red Wings are going to build a winner without lottery luck, they have to strive to be as deep as the Hurricanes and Kraken, with few (if any) weak spots in their lineup.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Dabura

[Walman6million 250]

21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I mean, there's no way we're solving all of our problems this summer, obviously. But I feel that adding a first-line scoring winger is something we need to do in the here and now. We can maybe address it next summer too - but we also need to be addressing it right now. Because, as things currently stand, we have paper-thin scoring depth at forward. Not even a legitimate top line. If we're thinking playoffs next season, that has to change - in a big way.

Not sure SY makes a big splash unless it's a Fabbri type steal deal

Beggren and Raymond will be leveling up. Soderblom if we see him. Mazur if we see him. Ras is finally coming into his own. Kasper joining us. We're waiting for growth at this point.

Just add Killorn or Compher and wait. When our drafted players are performing to an exceptional level and show they deserve for SY to spend to give them additional pieces, then pull the trigger.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, Walman6million said:

Not sure SY makes a big splash unless it's a Fabbri type steal deal

Beggren and Raymond will be leveling up. Soderblom if we see him. Mazur if we see him. Ras is finally coming into his own. Kasper joining us. We're waiting for growth at this point.

Just add Killorn or Compher and wait. When our drafted players are performing to an exceptional level and show they deserve for SY to spend to give them additional pieces, then pull the trigger.

I agree that that's SY's preferred approach; he doesn't wanna go HAM on a playoff push until the homegrown youth proves it's ready for prime time. Which means this is basically a waiting game. Which is ok.

But I think we have to be realistic about how long it could - and probably would - take for that to play out without any outside help of the high-end variety.

We can rattle off names of promising young players in our system, but the Joneses - Ottawa and Montreal - can do the same thing. And they've knocked some of their recent picks out of the park just like we have.

I'm not saying I don't believe in our youth. I do. And I'm not saying we should abandon the long-term plan for short-term satisfaction. We shouldn't.

I just think that at this stage of the rebuild, we shouldn't be content to sit back and let the future come to us whenever it decides it's ready.

If we're assuming Larkin's good for 80 points next season, and if we're thinking Raymond could take the next step, and if we're thinking we're gonna have some pretty good young depth...then I say we should bank on all of that.

Have three 30-goal scorers on our top line in [Outside Help]-Larkin-Raymond. Have them play tough minutes while Kasper cuts his teeth as a middle-6 centerman.

Don't go into next season saying "Well, ya know, it's a real tough league, and-ah, well, ya know, eh, well, the organ-I-zation, and, ya know, it's a real tough league and certainly, certainly what we'd like, well-ah, ya know, we had kicked the tires on Matthew Tkachuk a few years ago, and, well, ya know, we're-ah, we're not really in a position, we feel, to-ah, well, ya know, it'll take as long as it takes, and-ah, ya know, we think Amadeus has the potential to be a real good player for us in 15 years, and-ah."

Go into next season like we both intend and expect to kick the league square in the balls. Make a splash. Try to give this team the scoring teeth it's lacked for the past decade and let's see what the team can do.

I don't even think the D group needs a huge addition, tbh. I think Walman-Seider / Edvinsson-Gudas could be playoff-caliber - provided we're not counting on that four to be otherworldly because we have no scoring depth at forward.

Keep our eyes on the future - but refuse to take any more s*** in the present.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

We need to add Nylander.  That's a must.  7x11 is fine.

[Walman6million 250]

18 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I agree that that's SY's preferred approach; he doesn't wanna go HAM on a playoff push until the homegrown youth proves it's ready for prime time. Which means this is basically a waiting game. Which is ok.

But I think we have to be realistic about how long it could - and probably would - take for that to play out without any outside help of the high-end variety.

We can rattle off names of promising young players in our system, but the Joneses - Ottawa and Montreal - can do the same thing. And they've knocked some of their recent picks out of the park just like we have.

I'm not saying I don't believe in our youth. I do. And I'm not saying we should abandon the long-term plan for short-term satisfaction. We shouldn't.

I just think that at this stage of the rebuild, we shouldn't be content to sit back and let the future come to us whenever it decides it's ready.

If we're assuming Larkin's good for 80 points next season, and if we're thinking Raymond could take the next step, and if we're thinking we're gonna have some pretty good young depth...then I say we should bank on all of that.

Have three 30-goal scorers on our top line in [Outside Help]-Larkin-Raymond. Have them play tough minutes while Kasper cuts his teeth as a middle-6 centerman.

Don't go into next season saying "Well, ya know, it's a real tough league, and-ah, well, ya know, eh, well, the organ-I-zation, and, ya know, it's a real tough league and certainly, certainly what we'd like, well-ah, ya know, we had kicked the tires on Matthew Tkachuk a few years ago, and, well, ya know, we're-ah, we're not really in a position, we feel, to-ah, well, ya know, it'll take as long as it takes, and-ah, ya know, we think Amadeus has the potential to be a real good player for us in 15 years, and-ah."

Go into next season like we both intend and expect to kick the league square in the balls. Make a splash. Try to give this team the scoring teeth it's lacked for the past decade and let's see what the team can do.

I don't even think the D group needs a huge addition, tbh. I think Walman-Seider / Edvinsson-Gudas could be playoff-caliber - provided we're not counting on that four to be otherworldly because we have no scoring depth at forward.

Keep our eyes on the future - but refuse to take any more s*** in the present.

I honestly completely disagree. Wasting mad assets on a another Bertuzzi/Vrana level forward after we just sold those players would be impulsive and idiotic.

I'm only for it in a steal situation. Or it's a foundational superstar piece. Anything else is a waste.

And for the record, I don't buy into the "Red Wings dont have superstars we're a depth team" gong show theory. I think Kasper, Seider, Edddogg, and Raymond have superstar potential and we need to wait, not be toronto impaatient iddiots.

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

21 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

I honestly completely disagree. Wasting mad assets on a another Bertuzzi/Vrana level forward after we just sold those players would be impulsive and idiotic.

I'm only for it in a steal situation. Or it's a foundational superstar piece. Anything else is a waste.

And for the record, I don't buy into the "Red Wings dont have superstars we're a depth team" gong show theory. I think Kasper, Seider, Edddogg, and Raymond have superstar potential and we need to wait, not be toronto impaatient iddiots.

 

Im thinking Tuomisto is going to be the guy with Edvinsson this year.  Yzerman guy, and doing it the way Yzerman wants.  Im excited to see a big, mobile defense.  Once they all get their top heaviness kinks worked out, it will be fun to watch.

[Walman6million 250]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Im thinking Tuomisto is going to be the guy with Edvinsson this year.  Yzerman guy, and doing it the way Yzerman wants.  Im excited to see a big, mobile defense.  Once they all get their top heaviness kinks worked out, it will be fun to watch.

Tuomisto will never sniff the nhl

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I agree that that's SY's preferred approach; he doesn't wanna go HAM on a playoff push until the homegrown youth proves it's ready for prime time. Which means this is basically a waiting game. Which is ok.

But I think we have to be realistic about how long it could - and probably would - take for that to play out without any outside help of the high-end variety.

We can rattle off names of promising young players in our system, but the Joneses - Ottawa and Montreal - can do the same thing. And they've knocked some of their recent picks out of the park just like we have.

I'm not saying I don't believe in our youth. I do. And I'm not saying we should abandon the long-term plan for short-term satisfaction. We shouldn't.

I just think that at this stage of the rebuild, we shouldn't be content to sit back and let the future come to us whenever it decides it's ready.

If we're assuming Larkin's good for 80 points next season, and if we're thinking Raymond could take the next step, and if we're thinking we're gonna have some pretty good young depth...then I say we should bank on all of that.

Have three 30-goal scorers on our top line in [Outside Help]-Larkin-Raymond. Have them play tough minutes while Kasper cuts his teeth as a middle-6 centerman.

Don't go into next season saying "Well, ya know, it's a real tough league, and-ah, well, ya know, eh, well, the organ-I-zation, and, ya know, it's a real tough league and certainly, certainly what we'd like, well-ah, ya know, we had kicked the tires on Matthew Tkachuk a few years ago, and, well, ya know, we're-ah, we're not really in a position, we feel, to-ah, well, ya know, it'll take as long as it takes, and-ah, ya know, we think Amadeus has the potential to be a real good player for us in 15 years, and-ah."

Go into next season like we both intend and expect to kick the league square in the balls. Make a splash. Try to give this team the scoring teeth it's lacked for the past decade and let's see what the team can do.

I don't even think the D group needs a huge addition, tbh. I think Walman-Seider / Edvinsson-Gudas could be playoff-caliber - provided we're not counting on that four to be otherworldly because we have no scoring depth at forward.

Keep our eyes on the future - but refuse to take any more s*** in the present.

No comment on the rest of it but with regards to Ottawa, Yzerman is def beating Doiron in a staring competition rn.

The Sens don't pick until the 4th round this year. Jumping the gun just like NYR and Van.

The most patient GM wins in this case I think.

And the Habs will f*** it up I'm sure. Probably starts with bringing that loser PL Dubois on board 

Edited May 16, 2023 by The 91 of Ryans

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

58 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

Tuomisto will never sniff the nhl

https://www.google.com/amp/s/octopusthrower.com/2023/05/05/detroit-red-wings-antti-tuomisto-path/amp/

 

You're going to be surprised when this kid fills out.  You cant teach 6'5".

[ely s 457]

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We need to add Nylander.  That's a must.  7x11 is fine.

We don´t need $11m players on our roster. Two good $6m players have imo more worth. Look at Toronto and Edmonton,they struggle to assemble a good and deep lineup because so much money is locked in their "starpower".

Keep all of our top picks the next two drafts and let the young guns develop. It takes more time, yes, but that way we load up with more talent. Talent we will need to be competitive for years and not only a few seasons. Talent we need as potential improvement to our roster or as trade chips.

It´s not the time for a big splash, not yet...

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, ely s said:

We don´t need $11m players on our roster. Two good $6m players have imo more worth. Look at Toronto and Edmonton,they struggle to assemble a good and deep lineup because so much money is locked in their "starpower".

Keep all of our top picks the next two drafts and let the young guns develop. It takes more time, yes, but that way we load up with more talent. Talent we will need to be competitive for years and not only a few seasons. Talent we need as potential improvement to our roster or as trade chips.

It´s not the time for a big splash, not yet...

Yah, I think youre right.  Just tired of not having any top line talent.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

This is fun Dallas Detroit stuff:

Wyatt Johnson was taken with the pick Detroit traded with Dallas to move up to grab Cossa

Robertson was taken with the pick right after Gustav Lindstrom

Hintz was taken with the second rounder Kenny traded to Nill for Eric Cole

That is all

 

[AtlantaHotWings 992]

33 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

This is fun Dallas Detroit stuff:

Wyatt Johnson was taken with the pick Detroit traded with Dallas to move up to grab Cossa

Robertson was taken with the pick right after Gustav Lindstrom

Hintz was taken with the second rounder Kenny traded to Nill for Eric Cole

That is all

 

So the Stars are the "defacto Wings" so we root for them? I want the Cats to take out the Canes so sick of the "Canatics" or whatever they call themselves.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Hintz is a beast

[Akakabuto 1,751]

12 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yzerman guy, and doing it the way Yzerman wants.

Staying in Detroit over the summer?

The next $10m+ player on this team will be Seider. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Akakabuto

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Staying in Detroit over the summer?

The next $10m+ player on this team will be Seider. 

yup.  I bet Seider gets a bridge deal at 7x4.

[Axl Foley 227]

5 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

So the Stars are the "defacto Wings" so we root for them? I want the Cats to take out the Canes so sick of the "Canatics" or whatever they call themselves.

Caniacs

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

 

[Walman6million 250]

26 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

Barkov makes 10 mil. Bob makes 10 mil. Eichel makes 10. Multiple other players make just shy of 10 mil. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

false claims