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Member Since 31 May 2011
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#2548467 What happened to Calle Jarnkrok?

Posted by kipwinger on 10 November 2014 - 09:08 AM


I hope he is. That way we won't have LGW still lamenting his trade 10 years from now.


Valid point.  Worst case scenario I see the Jarnkrok trade ending up like Tomas Fleischmann trade.  He was a good prospect, is a good NHLer, and is someone who could have probably contributed over the years.  Nevertheless, the trade didn't cripple us long term. 

#2548362 11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

Posted by kipwinger on 09 November 2014 - 08:24 PM

Yikes.  That was brutal.  I just get done defending that pairing and Kindl blows goats on the next shift.  Story of my life lol.

#2548319 11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

Posted by kipwinger on 09 November 2014 - 08:03 PM


















Who are you telling?  I'm the one that picked the name.  I fully realize how awesome Kip Winger is. 


Just look at how he hangs his sunglasses from his banana hammock in that last pic.  This guyf****** rules. 

#2548316 11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

Posted by kipwinger on 09 November 2014 - 07:58 PM

I think free agency is our weak point kip but what trades would you think could warrant a good return



Not really the thread for that, but over the last five years there have been plenty of opportunities to acquire pieces through trade or FA in my opinion.  I've discussed some trades I'd favor in other threads if you feel like digging for them lol. 

#2548304 11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

Posted by kipwinger on 09 November 2014 - 07:47 PM



Are you drunk


Drunk enough to pay a little too much attention to mustachioed Thelma, and what a dirty girl she is lol.

#2548271 11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

Posted by kipwinger on 09 November 2014 - 07:24 PM

got to love the bandwagon  fans


Did you expect a Florida team to have lifelong, homegrown, die hard fans of a sport played on ice?  None of ice, hockey, or hockey fans naturally occurs in Florida.  Bandwagon fans in Florida is a little more tolerable than they are in say...Chicago?

#2548264 11/9 GDT - Tampa Bay 4 at Detroit 3 (SO) - 6:00 PM EST

Posted by kipwinger on 09 November 2014 - 07:21 PM

I wonder how long before we can put this "the only way to win in today's game is to draft and develop" argument to bed.  Jason Garrison, Ben Bishop, Brendan Morrow, Anton Stralman, Matt Carle, Brian Boyle, Ryan Callahan, and Valtteri Filppula are all pretty significant contributors to this team and were drafted and developed elsewhere.  Same is true of both teams in the Stanley Cup last year as well.  Free agency and trades can add significantly to your team's success.

#2547829 Mantha getting closer.

Posted by kipwinger on 07 November 2014 - 07:13 PM

That's the reason I think they'll keep him, but if they package him together for a top four d, I don't think it has to be that much of a slam dunk.

We've had skilled bigger bodies before and they always turned out to be grinders like McCarty, maltby, and lapointe.


Depends on who the top four d-man is.  But I get your point.  It's really risky trading a guy like Jurco at this age because you won't get a great return (unless packaged) and you don't know how he'll turn out.  Reminds me a bit like the situation where the Islanders traded Nino Neiderreiter.  Got very little and he's turning out to be a real good forward. 

#2547819 Mantha getting closer.

Posted by kipwinger on 07 November 2014 - 06:51 PM

I can see them moving Jurco if Mantha comes in and is the real deal


I mean, I don't think anybody other than Mantha (and probably Mrazek) is untouchable.  But why trade Jurco?  They've been saying for the last 3 or 4 drafts that they wanted to "get bigger and not lose skill".  Now that they've finally got that coming to fruition, I don't see them moving it unless it's a slam dunk.  I'd imagine (out of the prospects) any two of Backman, Jensen, or Ouellet plus Pulkkinen would be the ones to go first in a trade.  They've got value.  They can't all fit into the lineup along with everybody else.  And they're on the smaller end of the prospects.  Then again, a lot of that depends on who the coach is going to be next year because I get the feeling Babs and Blash wouldn't necessarily keep the same guys around given the choice.

Unfortunately so can i, but I think it'll be a mistake.
Jurco ceiling is really high, and I'd love to keep him but if given the choice right now I'd take mantha.

But I still thinkthe jerk will be an awesome top six player in the future.


He's not going anywher unless the return is a slam dunk.  Count on it.  Why draft big if you're just going to trade the big players and keep the little ones?

#2547811 Mantha getting closer.

Posted by kipwinger on 07 November 2014 - 06:22 PM

A lot of pressure for both guys. They are in direct competition with pretty much the same skill set. Should be fun



I think they're in direct competition.  But I don't think they've got the same skill set.  Jurco was really drafted for his stick handling, speed, and play in tight around the net.  Mantha's a pure sniper.  Really the only thing similar about them is their size and speed.  With regard to skill sets, Mantha is actually more like Pulkkinen.  Only way bigger and faster, obviously. 


The competition will be good for them, but I don't know about pressure.  They're both going to be part of the team for a long time to come.  The guy who should feel pressure is Pulkkinen.  The NHL is not a small guy's game anymore, and despite the fact that he's scoring goals he hasn't been given a look at the NHL level, nor has he really been spoken of too highly by Blashill or Babs.  The refrain seems to be "can score goals, but the rest of his game isn't developed".  He needs to carve out a spot for himself. 

#2547809 Mantha getting closer.

Posted by kipwinger on 07 November 2014 - 06:11 PM

I'd like to see him and Jurco in Grand Rapids at the same time.  You've got to believe the competition would be good for Jurco while at the same time giving them both a chance to shine.  I imagine Jurco won't want to be outdone by a first year guy. 

#2547614 GDT 11/5/14--Wings @ Rangers

Posted by kipwinger on 06 November 2014 - 01:13 PM


I didn't say the are exactly +/- I said they nothing more than, e.g. are as useless as this stat. For example the afore mentioned St.Louis goal : Kindl changes in the worst possible moment, is therefore off the ice when St.Louis scores. Guess who is the lucky guy on the ice desperately trying to catch the guy Kindl just abandoned ? Right, its Smith who, following your stats, is fully responsible for the goal while Kindl is not. If you can break down every goal and show me that and why Smith f***ed up on any of these I'll be the first who's with you. But your stats are just ridiculously flawed. Just because someone is on the ice doesn't mean he is responsible for the goal against.

And while Smith is the better player he also has to face the tougher opposition while Kindl plays heavily sheltered minutes.



First of all, it's not on me to go to ridiculous lengths to prove anything.  You want to show why all four goals scored while Smith was on the ice (over the last three games) aren't his fault, by all means go ahead.  He was on the ice for 3 goals against during the Buffalo game.  Where those Kindl's fault too?  You have no idea.  You're just defending Smith because (for some reason) you don't like the thought that Kindl can, once in a while, play better than Smith does.  He's doing it right now.  Get over it.


Secondly, I know Smith and Dekeyser play tougher minutes.  But that doesn't make their mistakes less harmful.  In fact, it makes them more harmful because when playing against better opponents (or in the defensive zone) your mistakes are MORE likely to end up in the back of the net.  Being a better player means Smith gets more opportunity than Kindl or Lashoff.  That means more opportunity to succeed AND to fail.  For three games our second pair hasn't been succeeding.  And that is demonstrably true. 

#2547602 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 06 November 2014 - 12:19 PM


The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing.


I agree.  But that's part of the problem isn't it?  Making average guys "look" good.  Does anybody remember when Ian White was Lidstrom's partner, and everybody kept commenting that White "looks" like a top pairing guy when playing next to Lids?  It was true, he "looked" fine.  Trouble was, Ian White ISN'T a top pairing defenseman.  And when the rubber hits the road he's going to play like a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy instead of a top pairing guy because that's what he is.  He didn't become better by playing with Lidstrom.  He mistakes were just less harmful. 


That's the by-product of Babs' system.  It can make Ericsson "look" like a number 2 defenseman.  It can make Darren Helm "look" like a top six forward.  And we all forget that ideally you don't want that.  Babs' system can make underachievers competitive sure.  But what happens when you run up against a team that's just as competitive, and has the right players in the right positions?  You get spanked.  Because an average player is an average player. 


Mind you, none if that is Babs' fault.  He plays with what he's got.  If KH wants average top four defense play, he should keep the top four he has now.  If he wants above average play, he needs better defensemen. 

#2547592 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 06 November 2014 - 10:49 AM

Trust me. I only want the treasurer's job as a temp spot.  I'm in the same club as you.  I think we've got a plethora of middling third pair defensemen.  Ship Kindl off to Edmonton or somewhere else players won't typically go. He's signed at a reasonable price for some of those teams for another two years (?)


Hudler's been okay off the Wings. Same with Flip. I can't and won't lament the fact that they're no longer Wings, in the same way that I can't and won't obsess about how prospects that we've traded away are doing. Does it sometimes suck when the player turns out to be great... or is it simply that they're flourishing in a different system/actually given an opportunity. It's the way the business side of the game works. Simple. As. That.

Ericsson isn't having the greatest of starts, but he's not as bad as some like to moan about.


I agree.  I said the same thing about Kindl and Smith the other day to krsmith.  I think they would both be much better under a different coach's system.  Babs doesn't want guys who wheel and deal and both those guys have skill sets conducive to a run and gun style of play.  Babs wants guys like Lids, Kronwall, and Rafalski who are all smart, heads up, defensemen who add offense through point shots and great passing.  Not Kind or Smith's game. 

#2547586 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 06 November 2014 - 10:17 AM

Lets be honest -- The eyeball test, your favorite players, and hated players all factor into the hows and whys of who and what we want for our team, but lets use the information that's available too.  WE'RE IN THE AGE OF ANALYTICS!  It's all out there to be had. Just make sure you use legit sources. Simple as that.


Some folks wouldn't trade Smith for anything.  Some wouldn't trade Jurco or Tatar.

Hell, some of us are still lamenting the Calle Jarnkrok trade... it's why we're here.

To talk about the team we love. Good or bad.


Also, kip... if you're the President of the "Kindl4Prez" fanclub, can I at least be the treasurer.  If he could just reign in the mistakes a bit, his value could be... well, at least decent.


Well don't misunderstand me.  I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded.  He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids. 


Can Jurco still go to GR?


Yes.  He's still got minor league options. 


Kindl will be a "solid" D-man on LGW by this time next year. Then we'll all hate him again after a bad pass at some point.


If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year.  Catch-22.