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After the forum upgrade it seems people need a refresher on the forum rules. Here's the one I keep having to quote as I'm warning people: Here's another good one: I suggest people re-read the forum rules. http://www.letsgowin...tion=boardrules I know everyone's a little jumpy waiting to see what Holland will do next, but personal attacks will not be tolerated and will result in suspension. Furthermore, mocking other members about their reaction to signings is still trolling and off topic and will be punished. For example, in a thread about Holland and free agency, someone posting "They should fire Holland" is a valid opinion, even though it's not particularly well thought out and is an extreme reaction. But in a thread about some other topic, chiming in saying "Fire Holland" to mock that member is trolling, which will result in deletion of the post and punishment. Make sense? Also, if you make a brilliant and insightful post about the Wings or hockey in general, but the last line of your post contains a personal attack, all your hard work will be deleted and you will likely be suspended for your efforts. As I've been saying over and over, discuss the content of the post and not the person making it. Everybody say it with me now.

If we keep acting like this, no free agents are going to want to sign here.

It's been there from the beginning. You've got no one to blame for your lack of reading skills but yourself. No, but you felt the need to whine about it publicly on the forum like an offended child rather than taking a route available to you. Oh, that's right -- you failed to read about that part. Again, this feeds into your persecution complex you've laid bare here. So right around the NHL Trade Deadline. Right. No traffic increase there. As far as the "condescending tone" is concerned, I will reply in kind when the moderating staff is called "elitist" or "stupid", so get used to it. Since this one occurrence has offended you so, may I ask what the topic pertained to (since I don't recall seeing it)? I'm virtually 100% confident the moderator that removed the topic did so correctly, but the event has left an ugly scar in your mind since then. Again, you think quite highly of yourself, which is amusing -- but sorry, I have no need to make up "BS attempts" to call you out. What's the point in that? Unfortunately the forum software from four years ago handled warnings a bit differently and there's no specifics other than a record of whom assigned the warning, the date, and the reason. That fancy print-screen effect below: What exactly have I not been honest about? Is this not an open discussion? Your attempts at trying to skew the discussion are laughable, at best. Argue/debate/discuss all you want, I'm game and I always have been. I don't believe I've ever been known to shun open discussion of site policies as long as it's done so with respect from the start. That isn't how it started here. If there's one thing that all moderators need to accept it's that you can't keep everyone happy. Someone will always be put off about one thing or another, will take something personal when it's not, etc.. You ARE a Booster -- so you know that there's been a two-year long thread on the first page of the private Booster forum specifically discussing the moderator policies of the forum. What have you contributed to it? Nothing. Zero. Not one post. (But let me guess, you didn't see that either, and I magically made that appear, too?) No disrespect for regular members here, but I do give the opinions of Boosters more weight when it comes to the discussion of moderator policies on the forums here: after all, they have made a contribution to the site and I consider it an "investment" in the site's growth and future. Does that mean they decide policy? Absolutely not, but I do listen to what they have to say. The moderators and I are not infallible. Things get missed, some things are edited/moved/deleted when they shouldn't be. It happens, and we try our best to fix it on the random times it does happen. And for those that feel that something was handled incorrectly than can always talk to me -- the buck stops here. I can't improve things if I don't know about the problems to begin with.

Preds fan coming in peace I think Detroit will be just fine. Holland will make the right move when the time is right. No need to spend just to spend or trade just to trade. He did his diligence with suter and Parise, but they made a decision to go elsewhere. A couple of dumb moves right now before a new CbA is announced could severely hinder a franchise moving forward. No need to take such risks when you have a solid team at this moment in time, and yes IMO, the wings are solid

The one person we're all tiptoeing around naming here is pretty clearly only around to troll. The only type of posts he makes are derogitory towards the Wings, Holland and posters here at LGW. That's what really gets my goat. I'm proud of how many great fans from other teams we have on LGW. Just off the top of my head I can think of posters from the Sharks and Preds community who've come here and made very intelligent, constructive posts while dodging the odd attack here or there based on their obvious love of another team. MacAttack used to post regularly from the position of a win-deprived Leafs fan who respects the Wings. For each of our playoff opponents in recent years I'd say we've had good cross-forum posters who I hope will come back for future games day threads. My point is that those of us who are tired of CentCougar aren't taking that position simply because he's a Wild fan. Edit: does anyone know how I can get the spellcheck functionality built into my Firefox browser to work with the new forums? This is the first time I've had this problem with the current FF.

Enough. The line is drawn in the sand right here. Reply tactfully -- and to the topic at hand -- or find your stay here permanently shortened. This also applies to all others dragging this thread though the mud.

Ventured over to the Wild's fan site for a moment (the one that mister cougar belongs too) and found this lil snippet he posted in reference to signing ZP and RS...... "Certainly family played a roll" - centcougar07 But I thought you said that was false and we were lying to you cougs????

i think there are several guys who can stand up for their teammates. i think there is one guy who is suddenly much more probable. there were any number of wings on the ice when shea weber bashed zetterberg's head into the glass over and over. nobody did anything. it was almost disgusting. shanny would have gone berzerk had somebody done that to yzerman. chelios would have instantly punched somebody. they left zetterberg out to dry. that should never happen.

I understand what you are saying but from what I have seen on these boards lately most of the personal attacks are in reference to some posts that in themselves could be considered trolling. Obviously some personal attacks are random or unjustified but just as we should all refrain from making personal attacks in our posts there are some posters, in my opinion, who should refrain from pretty evident trolling. Personally, I would like to see those trolling posts disciplined just as personal attack posts will be.

esteef

The reason the Wings have to pick up Doan is rather simple: We need to replace this face... With this one... Think of the photoshoppers Kenny, those innocent little photoshoppers.

First off, everyone get off the ledge. We didn't lose out because we're falling apart, or because Kenny didn't do his job, we didn't get the key FA because THEY chose to play together and WHERE they wanted to play and were going there regardless of what everyone else offered them, or because someone gave them an OBSCENE contract, with way too much term (*cough* Carle *cough*) that they did not deserve, that we do not need killing our team in the short, or long term... especially with a new CBA coming, that could freeze the cap. This is not an eternal ceiling that keeps going up and will continue to go up, nor should it be. Once the top FA were gone, the market this year falls off... drastically. When this happens, a good team, with a good GM, does not panic and then reach and sign unnecessary contracts, to marginal players, that hurt their team in the short or long term. They stay the course. Holland is a damn good GM. period. Now, we're all allowed to be upset, dissapointed and even downright pissed that this off season didn't go the way we all wanted and NO one hates the Tootoo signing more than me... but TRUST your GM. You got the best there is in the game and you should be god damn thankful you do and stop being a spoiled, pissy little brat who doesn't appreciate everything they have gotten, or have, because they didn't get the toy they wanted that year... there will be new toys and you'll probably get those too, so get the f' over yourself and stop telling daddy you hate him and he's the worst dad ever, just because you didn't get a unicorn that never existed in the first place. Now, things didn't go the way we wanted, so you formulate an action plan... you don't trade away half your roster for a primadona who is goverened by a nutjob that doesn't even realize that 7 draft picks > 1 draft pick, or reach for a replacement to arguably the best (and unarguably top 2) defenseman to ever play the game and trade away too much looking for something you'll never find. There is no replacement to Nick. Probably ever. You do the best you can to adjust, not replace... Holland is a damn good GM. period. With that said, we have some young players who are ready to show what they have... there may be some growing pains, but if there was ever the time, it's now. Once Quincey signs, that will put us at 6 NHL dmen, you sign a big, shot blocker (Jurcina or Vandermeer) as the 7th to a one year deal and let them battle it out in camp for the spots and you give Smith, Ericsson and Kindl ALL a chance to put that extra body in the press box when everyone's healthy. As for forwards, unless a trade that ACTUALLY makes sense comes across, you stand pat and have faith in the system and, once again, the young guys. Let Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, Shehan and even Brunnstrom (he's in the process of signing according to reports) come to camp and PROVE they belong, then you give them the spot and give them the faith, without having to look over their shoulders, or going to camp knowing they don't even have a chance to make the team. You put your faith in them, give them the responsibility and the confidence and most importantly... the ice time. Finally, by doing all of this, you don't handcuff yourself for one year, while in panic mode, when you have a season coming up, in which Iginla, Perry, Getzlaf, Horton, Weiss, Clarkson, Weber, Timonen, Whitney, etc, etc, etc... may be free agents (some may re-sign, but others certainly will not)... oh yea, not to mention several of your own that need to be re-signed and will probably be commanding raises... This is not a sprint, it is a marathon, have faith and always remember... Holland is a damn good GM. period.

The report function does get underutilized. I'm not sure if it's a "snitches end up in ditches" mentality or what. When someone trolls or makes a personal attack, basically the thread (and therefore the forum) gets crappier. The more personal attacks and trolling, the crappier this forum gets. Reporting a post isn't tattling as much as it is calling a mods attention to a mess so they can clean it up and keep the quality of the site higher. We're not the police here as much as we are janitors. As I've said before, the forum is only as good as the content you guys provide. Post good stuff and the forum gets better. Post garbage and it turns to garbage.

All I can say in response to this is no one knows what actions Matt and/or the mods take outside of the parties directly involved. It would be tacky otherwise. I cannot stress often enough how important that report function is. If someone is provoked, they should use it rather than resorting to personal attacks. There is a difference between fans of other teams who come here solely to bash the Wings and fans of other teams who have a differing opinion on the state of the team. Those who come strictly to troll are dealt with swiftly; those who opine something other than the party line are welcome to express their opinion. If you see blatant trolling, please report it. If you simply disagree with them, by all means, discuss it. That's why we're all here!

How am I supposed to win an internet debate without using Ad homs?

He' such an awful hockey player, yet he scored 30 points in 77 games last year. Why don't we compare his production to a few of our bottom 6ers: Cory Emmerton: 10 points in 71 games Justin Abdelkader: 22 points in 81 games Drew Miller: 25 points in 80 games Still look like a terrible hockey player? He's got some offensive touch and he'll add that element of grit that we haven't seen in a while. Tootoo was a healthy scratch in the playoffs because they had acquired Paul Gaustad and Brandon Yip before the playoffs, giving them depth at forward. It is so funny that people hate Jordin Tootoo because of his past. Yet, we loved Chris Chelios, who wasn't the cleanest player before he came here. Bertuzzi threw a pretty big cheapshot, yet we seem cool with him here. Just because people don't agree wholeheartedly with your stance on Tootoo doesn't mean the fanbase has a "Low IQ". As I've shown, Tootoo outproduced many players on this team last year, and should be a welcome addition to the team, considering he also has a pair of balls. He texted me earlier and mentioned that everyone's negative opinions on LGW were bothering him. He proceeded to ask me what my opinion was. Told me Tootoo's future rested with my opinion of him. Guys, he isn't going anywhere. Blame me if you don't like him.

Anybody in this thread who said "Holland is sitting on his hands" because he didn't get _______ player is either ignorant or not a Wings fan that pays any attention. Do we fire every GM except for the one in Minnesota for not signing Suter and Parise, who obviously had made up their mind to play there irrespective of (more) money or franchise track record? Everybody take a deep breath, let this play out and evaluate by training camp. Seriously, free agency opened July 1st, but Doan, Semin, and other FA's aren't even signed yet, and a trade could happen at any time. Jeez, I know you're frustrated/worried, but the number of "smart" things Holland has done in the past 5 years WAY outweighs the number of failed/misguided moves during that time: Re-signing stars to manageable long-term deals Circumventing the cap and getting away with it before it became "illegal" Recycling useful veterans while other desparate teams Drafting, developing, and retaining a borderline elite goaltender (Howard) at about 1/3 of the cap hit of other "elite" goalies The Hossa 1-year deal (a low risk, high reward opportunity that got us all the way to Gm 7 of the Cup Finals) Despite terrible draft position for the past 20 years, finding guys like Brendan Smith (#27 pick), Tatar (#60), and Nyquist (#121) that look like potentially very good NHL players, especially for where they were drafted. Developing young role players (Helm, Abdelkader, Miller, etc.) that keep the Wings as one of the deeper teams in the league If we don't get Doan, I'm not going to burn down Joe Louis Arena. If we don't sign Semin or make a high impact trade, I will be more disappointed, but jeez, try not to be a spoiled brat - there are worse things than being a Red Wings fan in 2012-13.

3-year, $5.75 mil extension. Don't see many players stick with one organization their whole career, but it looks like Neil may be one of them. Great deal for Ottawa. A great team guy and a fan favorite.

But I think the interesting thing is that he makes the players he's with better as well. According to the article most players were better off, offensively and defensively, when playing on a line with him so it's reasonable to expect he'd increase D,Z, Franzen, or Flip's production as well.

Semin and Doan both bring stuff that we need. Arguing about which one we neednmore is meaningless. I'll take both, trade for dman and call it a day.

Yzerman was a blue-chip draft pick who was easily the best player on a bottom-feeder team. The organization (namely Ilitch, who had recently purchased the team) was looking for him to be the cornerstone of a new era in Hockeytown. That's why he got the 'C'.' Z will be the new captain because he is a good leader, a good locker room presence, and the guy who has been groomed for the position for a long time. There was even talk of him taking over the captaincy after Yzerman retired. What's your point? Drake is responding to centcougar's claim that the acquisition of Parise and Suter will catapult the Wild from a non-playoff team to a Cup contender. In reality, they make Minnesota's below-average offense and defense into an average offense and defense.

This is not how the Wings go about their business. The letters on the jerseys are earned. It would have been a huge slap in the face if Parise had signed and had the captaincy handed to him over Dats or Z. No way would this have happened. Anyway, it's a moot point anyway as Parise did not sign here.

Why are we even talking about this? We just ran a guy out of town in Hudler, who (although less gifted) gave more effort and played with more grit than Semin ever has, and that doesn't say much... yet he took SOO much flak for being lazy and soft... if you don't like lazy and soft, your head would explode with Semin here... he is the exact type of player we don't need... and before anyone even says it, points only count when you actually score them, want to look at that stat sheet and remind yourself the last time he put up 40 goals and/or a 60+ point season? Oh yea, and lets not forget the stunning playoff performances he's had the last few years as well... This board is so bi-polar sometimes it's mind blowing....

The only thing that bothers me about this roster is that Kenny will HAVE to eventually make a trade or we will have no Tatar up next season likely and no other forward prospects will get looks either... This is because of the deals he gave Bert, Sammy, and will likely give to Cleary. I want to bring some of our top 6 talent up from the AHL and give them a true shot next season. If that means trading Franzen for d help, letting cleary walk, or trading bertuzzi then so be it.

He's signed until like 2016... espn is about as credible for hockey as a crack head for financial advice