Leaderboard

Little point in sitting down if one side is going to throw out proposals after barely a glance. Remember, this is twice in a row Bettman has rejected proposals without even taking time to consider them. Just a glance to see if there's an immediate pay cut, and if not it goes straight in the trash. How do you negotiate with that? What more can the players do but capitulate to the owners demands? What bugs me about all of the people bashing the union is that you all seem to agree that they shouldn't have to take a pay cut, but then say they have to be willing to compromise and give up a little more. Those two statements are contradictory. The players are as low as they can realistically go in the short term without pay cuts, and pretty much as low as they can go on the overall share% without going below 50% in any given year. And the worst part is that the longer the owners fail to acknowledge that, the higher the player's share has to be to avoid cuts. That seems to be the owner's plan. They'll force the players to take a cut one way or another. They'll lose revenue this year, possibly strangle future growth, probably win again. Then when the next negotiations come around, and the league is in the exact same place, they'll do it all again. The only place I find blame on both sides is that neither actually addresses the real problem. They need to solve the revenue disparity, and I don't think revenue sharing is the answer. They have to change the payroll range system. $16M is too small. And some teams have to move. If they don't, whether the split is 50% or 52% when this CBA ends doesn't make any difference. Either will still see a handful of teams that can't reach the floor, 10-15 more teams that could get themselves in trouble if they don't spend wisely. The top teams will add another $100M in profits on top of what they're already not allowed to spend, but the situation for the rest of the league won't be any different than it is now. The owners will come out talking about how unfair a 50/50 split is, and lockout again until they get 45%. Maybe if this lockout causes revenues to take a hit, we might be lucky enough to see the kind of labor peace MLB has had since the strike, but I think for that to happen players have to "win" this negotiation.

Burnside at ESPN just wrote one of the best columns on the NHL Lockout. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8534787/nhl-week-make-break-nhl-legacy The best line in the story though is this....

Yay! I know myself and several of my friends have emailed FSD letting them know how disappointed we were that they weren't airing any Griffins games. So you guys can thank us for this.

The players are going to have to take a pay cut of some kind. That much is certain. The 57% that the players got last CBA really was fair at the time, considering what they came from before the last lockout. When the NBA and the NFL negotiated 50-50 splits for the most part, you knew that the NHL was headed for the same destination. Now, how much of a pay cut is up for discussion. I believe that the players are entitled to every dime they have in current contracts. I also believe that the players should be looking at a 50-50 split. The problem I have with the league and the union is that they say 50-50, but in reality it isn't. If you look at the 3 proposals given by the players and the proposal by the league, which of those are an actual 50-50 split right off the bat? Answer: None of them I can find plenty of blame on both sides of the coin. Since you can't seem to find any fault with the league except for "not seeing the problem", how about I educate you on a few other problems. League invites the players to start bargaining in January, but Fehr says he needs more time. League invites the players to bargain upon conclusion of the season, but Fehr waits until the end of June. Fehr holds off a full 3 weeks after the NHL's crappy proposal before he issues his first proposal. (Notice he is dragging his feet yet?) Being willing to play the PR card as much as the league is. Touting 50-50 split in his 3rd proposal was a outright lie, just like the NHL proposal was. I could go on and on here, but the simple fact of the matter is that both sides have not been honest and have not negotiated in good faith. The NHL speaks one language, while the NHLPA speaks another. Then they go to the press and play the PR card. They get in a room for 30 minutes, decline the others proposals, and then don't meet again for a week or two at a time. Is that the sign of two sides eager to get a deal done? So before you start saying that the only fault you can see with the union is that they don't see the problem, take a long good look at the crap they have pulled since the beginning of the year on these CBA negotiations. If you still can't see any fault at all with their actions, then I really am sorry. (Please note that this behavior does not excuse the NHL's behavior in these negotiations either. Two wrongs do not make a right.) As a fan, this kind of behavior from both sides just pisses me off. It should piss off any fan who has had to sit through this for the last few months.

http://griffinshocke...article_id=2263 Why the hell did I write Saturday in the thread title? Someone change it for me please because I'm an idiot.

Yeah, I voted for Datsyuk, but I absolutely hate the question in the poll. I don't know what a "pure" goal scorer means. I think that people hear that and think of a super-talented player who is singularly focused on putting points on the board. Marian Gaborik is a "pure goal scorer". So is Ovechkin. Pavel Bure and Ziggy Palffy from back in the day. The Red Wings don't really employ guys like that, or at least they haven't recently. If you took Datsyuk's innate ability and gave him the "personality" of Ovechkin, I feel like he scores 45 goals a year, but I can't "know" that. And he'd probably be a less valuable player to his team, whether people want to believe that or not. Again, though, I was really surprised by how much of a two-way game Hossa actually had when he played for us. Yeah, he was a terrific goal scorer that carried the Wings at times during the 08-09 regular season, but he's also a very large, strong individual who would back check and put a body on you in the corner. Nothing irks me more about (some) Wings fans that the revisionist history applied to Hossa's one year with this team. But that's a topic for a different thread.

I don't have a side. I'm on my own selfish side in wanting hockey to start so I have something to entertain me. Having said that, I do believe the owners are at fault here. Reason being is that while they are on a cash grab they are doing little to address the real issues of a "cash-strapped-league" and the bigger picture. If the players agree to salary rollbacks now, so we can have a season, is that going to suddenly fix the problems in Phoenix? Absolutely not. The players are willing to take a pay cut of some sort, but what justification do they have in doing so if it doesn't fix anything but make the owners wallet a little fatter and not to address the problem at hand? They're willing to give for the game, but only if it benefits the game. The only reason you listed the PA is to blame is the "the league was willing to negotiate in January" and "Fehr sure does drag his feet doesn't he?". Even IF Bettman really was willing to negotiate in January, how long would it have taken him to shoot down the PA's offers? 15 minutes? It's hard to negotiate when you have one side saying it's my way or the highway. You claim that's the PA's stance as well, unwilling to budge, but damn them for wanting to not take a pay cut. They're so greedy. Would you take a pay cut today if your company was failing, but your owner just intended to pocket the money instead of actually help save the business? You're right, Fehr wasn't planning a lockout. If anything, the players would have gone on strike, but now we're just getting into semantics. While this is our first go with Fehr and the NHL, his history shows he has used a strike as leverage before, right before the playoffs. However, if history is going to be used as any indicator, Bettman's negotiating tactic of choice appears to be locking the players out. So now I'll go back to an old point I brought up a few pages ago: why exactly should the players be willing to take ANY kind of pay cut to contracts that were signed by the very same owners crying poor? I really don't have any clue how you can realistically place blame of the financial state of the NHL on the players and state that they are equally to blame for the lockout as the owners are because they are not willing to have their salaries rolled back at the demand of the owners who are doing little to address the reasoning behind why the league 'is failing'.

I'm not sure I even like the tone of that guy's article, let alone the aimless speculation. His whole point was that naming Kronwall would send a "message" to the organization of fans - basically by picking a "tough guy" as a captain, we'd be adopting a "tougher" mentality. Is he saying the Wings stagnated because we had a captain like Lidstrom (who, by the way, won us a Cup and barely missed time despite almost losing a certain body part in '09...yeah, real pansy). I have always heard/thought/expected it would be Z. Datsyuk's the better player, but that's not what a captain is. That'd be like saying Fedorov should have been captain because he skates faster than Steve Yzerman.

I believe the problem that you and others have with my posts are that I am listing reasons why the PA is to blame. Every point I have made that has upset me with the NHL is summarily ignored by people who are on the side of the NHLPA. After all, they are the ones that are 100% at fault right? I have countless posts here where I go after Bettman and his negotiating, crappy proposals, and combative style where he belittles Fehr in front of the press. Yet, you and others here who are on the side of the NHLPA ignore those. The league was on the record saying that they were ready to negotiate in January. Many links were posted with this information. Of course Bettman thought that there was plenty of time to negotiate a deal at the time. I didn't expect Bettman to come out and say the season was screwed because Fehr and the players weren't willing to negotiate early. I don't believe for a second that Bettman or Fehr were planning a lockout. Some people who are backing the NHLPA believe that Bettman planned to lockout the players the whole time. Some people who are backing the NHL believe that Fehr wasn't planning on negotiating because he wanted the league to lock them out so he could negotiate a new deal with a luxury tax in place. If the season is lost, then that was ok with Fehr. So, do you believe that either side was planning to scrap the season? I certainly don't. The problem is greed and the unwillingness to compromise on both sides.

Bettman and the owners locked out the players (and fans) to renege on contracts they signed and offered in the first place, it's really as simple as that.

Ignoring other aspects of the deal, I think this should be a fair framework: Year 1 - players get minimum 50% of HRR and max 55% (if full contracts are paid at 52%, they get no more than that). Year 2 - min 50%, max 54% Year 3 - min 50%, max 53% Year 4 - min 50%, max 52% Year 5 - min 50%, max 51% Year 6 - 50%....period Neither side will really like it too much, which probably means it would be a pretty fair deal.

Z's Hat-trick & game highlights

None of the guys listed are "pure" goal scorers. That label is reserved for elite snipers like Stamkos and Hossa. Hudler was probably the closest thing we had to a goal-scorer last year, and that was mostly because he didn't do anything else very well.

Blame It On The Rain - Milli Vanilli

After reading all three proposals by the players and the latest one by the league, one thing is certain..... None of the proposals are close to 50/50 right out of the gate as was touted by either side. http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19875/donald-fehrs-latest-letter-to-players Even in Fehr's latest letter to the players where he outlines the proposals, the final proposal in which he said the split goes down to 50/50 right away, in reality it does not. Its similar speak like what we heard in the NHL proposal where they touted the 50/50 split but it really wasn't. Right now, both sides are just playing the PR card. I also don't believe that both sides are negotiating in good faith. Especially when the league and the players can't stand listening to the other sides proposals for longer than 15 minutes and meeting for more than 1-2 hours at a time. Its readily apparent to me that these are two sides that don't trust each other. Now you can say this is the fault of the respective sides, the leaders that they chose, or the culture of the players vrs owners. I don't know which it is, but I can say that both sides do not trust each other and there is some dislike between the sides. Firing Bettman and Fehr wouldn't solve the trust issue right away, but it is a start. In the past, these leaders were chosen to get the most for their side and not consider the other side. The leaders of both sides have to be canned in order to bring in fresh blood that is all about working with each other, not against. This should spark a culture change between both sides and assist with future negotiations. As for the issue we have today, both sides have got to pressure their leaders to get into a room and work on a deal. Right now, it seems that both sides are happy just sitting on their asses and letting the season slip away. That should make any Bettman or Fehr fan unhappy.

Pulkkinen, Frk, Jurco and Athanasiou just for future reference.

The only good thing ive got out of it was watching the tigers beat the snot out of the yankee's in the alcs....which was a great experience. P.s I REALLY like watching the yanks lose.

Personally I feel like boycotting the red wings doesn't make sense as Ilitch at least from the small rumors doesn't already align with Bettmen but there isn't much that can be done including other owners who are are also successful like Ilitch who also doesn't agree with Bettman. Its a two sided sword that the fans just get bent over and screwed over. We can only hope (or at least I can hope) that these small market teams lose so much money that they will finally either moved or close down. I hope for the latter a smaller more productive league is better for the fans. These poor desision making small market teams hold all the power and keep Bettmen doing what he does making it as profitable a league as he can pretty much for the best interest for middle of the road and bad market teams. The tier teams will make more money at the expense of losing being able to ice great teams. The ability to go out and spend disappears so whats the difference for a player to go anywhere other than the fact that team x happens to have more cap space that year. Mediocracy is all we will most likely get out of the NHL so that more owners can be more profitable. Unfortunatly as Red Wings fans we lose.