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I don't think anyone is arguing against constructive criticism, but the absolute vitriol that spews on this board sometimes usually is frustrating most all level-headed fans and we're getting a little trigger happy. Another thing I'm getting a little tired of is comparing Holland to Yzerman and/or Nill. Apples and oranges. The Lightening and Stars had almost nowhere to go but up to begin with. They also aren't facing the same adversity as Holland - little cap space and an unwillingness to trade with the Wings. These are pretty sizable barriers to contend with. Also, neither has the pressure from the fans that the Wings organization has. I'm not a Holland fanboy by any means, but let's be reasonable. And since neither Nill or Yzerman is available to Detroit, what's a better option than Holland at this point?

Great post, krsmith! You've hit a lot of the salient points that beeded hitting. I actually think this streak is more impressive than the Bruins' streak because they never had to contend with the salary cap the Wings do. Maintaining their level of success from the pre salary cap era to now is impressive, and to sustain it is moreso, imho. Today's NHL has been striving for parity amongst teams for years, and the case could be made that, as a result, it has, in some ways, become a parody of itself. Ken Holland has done a good job steering the Wings through the transition period, despite everything. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of a trade is higher for the the Wings with any given team than anyone else because so many folks seem to want to see the Wings fail, and no GM wants to be blamed for being the guy that helped the Wings climb back on top. The injuries the Wings have had the last few years were ridiculous, and at this point, it almost feels like probability is swinging back towards a healthy Wings squad this year. Kr and Dabura have both made great points, and the negativity is getting old. Am I happy about the Cleary signing? No, but I can respect why Ken did it (MUCH better than how the Sharks crapped on Thornton and Marleau, and I'm no fan of either, but that was bush league). I am hoping Cleary plays well in the games he's in (that ice bucket video was top notch). The prospect pool is the best I've seen since I started watching the Wings back in 1983 as a 12 year old. The future is bright, imho, and the team is going to hit an upswing soon. Let's enjoy the ride.

Saying "Sign UFA's" is easy, but the reality of the situation is that in 2014 the players available in UFA are typically average/above average players who are paid like they are borderline elite, I don't believe these types of players are necessarily the answer in the post cap era, in this era I believe the answer is grooming your own home grown talent and supplementing it with UFA's when the right player for the right price is available, otherwise these types of moves can be absolutely crippling to a team. We are coming off a year where Matt Niskanen & Paul Stastny headlined a class, nothing against them as players but we aren't talking Suter/Parise here. The reason why you cant answer the question is because that magic player was not there. The closest person is probably Suter, but signing anyone to a 14 deal right before a CBA was about to be negotiated would have been extremely risky and I am glad we didn't land him. We took a gamble on Weiss, and while he does have years to come around, I think this shows you how just signing a UFA doesn't fix everything. I find it ironic that you use LA and Chicago in your points of comparison, but you are frustrated that we are not winning now. Chicago and LA did not become elite team overnight, they were very bad, for a very long time. LA didn't make the playoffs for 7 years, until there most recent winning way started (i'm talking 7 years to get back in to playoffs, not going deep or winning cups), Chicago (with the one exception of '02) didn't make the playoffs for 11 years. We are in a re-build, people need to accept it. The difference between us and others of the past is that we just aren't horsesh*t doing it. We could go all in and trade Kronwall, Zetterberg, Datsyuk etc. but what they are doing is hoping that our kids can become great, while the vets are still elite or close to it, plus using these vets to give guidance to the kids that are coming up. Its almost as if sustaining our winning ways to a degree is hurting us, because its resulting in people failing to see the re-build. I'm sorry, but I dont want to be Edmonton, or what Chicago and LA were and be very bad for a very long time. Having a quick turn-around where we dont need to just unload everyone, and are still making the playoffs in an era of parity where anything can happen, is a nice way of doing it! Lastly, as far as comparing Holland to Yzerman and Nill, this is fair buts lets wait a couple of years. Other then a final 4 a few years ago, Yzerman hasn't done anything yet. Since that final 4 TB didnt make the playoffs, and then were swept first round. I admit they appear to be going in the right direction, but its results that matter. Nill....same thing. I love the moves he is making, but at the end of the day all Dallas has accomplished is an 8th seed where they were bounced first round. Please don't take this as me putting either of these guys down, the moves appear to be good ones, but lets wait and see.

You keep saying he has to move on but you haven't listed a single possible solution/alternative that's available that would benefit us.

The Wings absolutely have blue chip pieces that teams want to trade for. There were many reports over the summer of other teams calling and inquiring about Mantha, Nyquist and Tatar. We could get something very good for them. But, with the potential of those players, management has decided that it would be better in the long run to keep them. I for one support that because I really those 3 and none of the player mentioned in possible trades have seemed to be a perfect, no risk fit for us (Edler, Myers, etc...). Besides I like the look of our D prospects.

I really wish people would stop with this, "well we haven't done ANYTHING in the past 5 years", blah, blah, blah... How many times does it have to be said and how the hell is it not obvious to some of you that the Detroit Red Wings are in the midst of their second rebuild in the past two decades, without once missing the playoffs?... That is not that impressive at all... I mean, most teams in the league have done that haven't they?... NOPE, not even close... The Wings streak is at 23 consecutive seasons without missing the playoffs, after that there is the Sharks at 10, Penguins at 8, Bruins 7, Blackhawks 6, Kings 5, Rangers 4, Blues 3, and no other team has made the playoffs more than the past 2 seasons straight. That is absolutely insane when you actually think about it... To continue to make the playoffs for this long, through two rebuilds is nothing short of astonishing, and I'm willing to bet that the Wings make it at least another 7 years to beat the Boston Bruins 29 year playoff streak from '67-'96. People that do not see the brightness at the end of this tunnel, that has been the past 5 years, are pessimists to their truest form. How can you not be thrilled as a Red Wings fan, not only because of the "stupid, not-at-all-impressive streak", but because of all of the talent that we have coming up over the next few seasons. To say that there is no way that Jurco can turn out to be as good as Datsyuk is very bleak in my opinion. Jurco has accomplished more than Datsyuk had accomplished at the tender age of 21. Jurco has already got his first taste of NHL action and played quite well for a rookie, while Datsyuk wasn't even drafted until he was 20 and didn't play his first season in the NHL until he was 23. They both have great hands, obviously Pav gets the edge there though since he has better hands than anyone that has ever played the game. Jurco definitely has the size advantage, as he is 3 inches taller and already closing in on 200 lbs., whereas Pav is around the same now but came into the league as a rookie somewhere between 175-180 lbs. I also think that Nyquist has the potential to become somewhat of a Zetterberg lite. Nyquist is slightly behind Zetterberg in production at the same age but he does have a slightly better point percentage. In Zetterberg's first two seasons he put up 87 points in 140 games, 0.621 points per game, while in Nyquist' first three partial seasons, he put up 61 points in 97 games, 0.628 points per game. Gus has the same drive and determination that makes Hank such a world class player, and he also seems to have the same type of leadership qualities. They're both approximately the same height and weight when they were the same age, while Hank has put on some muscle over the years, Gus still has plenty of room to grow as well. The Wings definitely have a few potential future stars up front in Nyquist, Jurco and Mantha, but to go along with that I think we have much more depth coming than we have ever had before. Sheahan, Tatar, Pulkkinen and Athanasiou are all potential top 6 players, and Nastasiuk, Bertuzzi and Callahan could be great 3rd and 4th line players. I'm not quite sure where Janmark, Nosek, and Frk will fit in but they're quality players as well. Then you have guys like Larkin and Turgeon that we just drafted that I think could be along their way in about five years as well. On the back end we also have a few potential future stars in Smith, DeKeyser and Sproul as well as guys like Ouellet, Backman, Marchenko and Jensen. And of course between the pipes, we have Mrazek coming along quite nicely, and he could be a future top 5 goalie in this league. I realize that all of this, as of right now, is just "potential" but with as many high end prospects that we have, at least a few of them have to turn into quality players. We have one of the best prospect pools in the entire league because we have one of the best general managers in the league, as well as top scouts and development teams in the league (credit to Holland for putting this management team together). I'll never understand some of the constant negative attitudes in here, but to each their own. What a boring forum this would be without you guys lol.

I never once said anything about Kyle Quincey You are contradicting yourself. You are upset that the Wings are sitting back, yet calling out Chicago and LA as perfect examples of the way it should be done. Like I said above, it took Chicago 11 years to complete their rebuild In that time I don't recall any major UFA signings until the end. Based on this logic, if you consider this year 5 of the re-build (which is a HUGE stretch), then are you saying you would be okay with it taking the Wings until 2020 to become contenders because that is what the Blackhawks did? But that goes against your point of sitting back and waiting just waiting for talent to develop.

Boyd Devereaux and Jason Williams

Viable GM options: Ryan Martin (Wings assistant GM) Shero (ex-penguin who was handed a team consisting of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Fleury, yet could only manage 1 cup, and has now drained the pens of prospects after chasing deadline acquisitions year after year) Gillis (ex-canuck who botched trading Luongo and Schneider and drained his teams prospect pool to trade for quick-fixes that didn't payoff) Pierre McGuire (Creepy fan-boy) Holland (Been with the organization since 1983, going for 24th straight playoff appearance, recent low-risk signings that didn't pay off, three cups as GM) I'll take Holland for now. EDIT: Others who could be promoted, but that I don't know much about: Julien BriseBois (Yzerman's assistant) Paul Fenton (Poile's assistant) Joe Will (San Jose's assistant)

I don't think DickieDunn is saying that everyone would want Quincey, but rather that some team out there would have offered him a contract. I 100% agree with this, maybe not for the term/$$ the Wings offered, but there would have been at least 1 offer nearly 2 months into free agency.

Quincey likely would have been signed well before now

I remember when z and d would never turn into Stevie and feds...

No,I 'm not really in pain,the doctor had have day were she had no other surgeries scheduled for the rest of the day,because my surgery is gonna take all day

IMO this was always a freak accident. Sure Bertuzzi shouldn't have thrown the cheap shot, but there are plenty of on-par or worse cheap shots that have been thrown in the NHL. The only difference is this one happened to end with the unthinkable. The result was certainly not Bertuzzi's intention, just like no player intends to end a career when they go airborne on a hit, or throw an elbow, or slam a head into the boards, or uppercut an opponents face. The intent is always to harm, but never this. The problem is 1/somelargenumber end up like this. That's the reality of fast contact sports that condones fighting. I hope that moore can get what he needs, but I also don't think that Bertuzzi should be burned at the stake for his actions. This has been hashed out a million times, but It's late and I've been drinking.

I love Bertuzzi. I feel bad for both of them and for their families and I just can't wait for this to be behind them.

They are.