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I'm not so sure. Larkin plays with Zetterberg year one and does well. Plays without Zetterberg year 2 and doesn't do well. The few games Mantha played without Z, he wasn't doing well. If they help Z, it's very little compared to how much he helps them. This team is screwed once he's gone. Maybe even moreso than when Datsyuk left. Datsyuk was a one man army, Zetterberg is the commander that Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, Larkin, Abdelkader all looked good with.

Whats wrong with a PTO? It's a chance for the player to see the team and for the team to see the player. At the very least it pushes young guns on the cusp of making the team to work harder and not get everything handed to them.

You nailed it. Change does not automatically equal progress. Butcher is a run of the mill Dman. White is a run of the mill grinder. But to lefty tippett, butcher, and white = franchise saviors. Sure theyre useful, but there no more life changing than AA, Green, or Mrazek are. You wont regret or miss siginging any of them in our position.

Prime example Colorado, they tanked it and didn't go No1. See the turn out at the games, it was like they moved them to Carolina. I don't like tanking, odds are not there anyways. If your eliminated, i can see bringing some guys up and get some time in the show in moderation to help the curve.

I call him Capt. Cut-n-paste for a reason No he isn't Butcher signed with NJ, and no he isn't Booth sucks more than Sheahan, and Sheahan made himself difficult to trade

Hello all, this is my first post so please bare with me here as I lay it all on the line. I've grown up in Seattle my whole life, have no ties to Detroit whatsoever. While growing up my dad and I would watch hockey night in Canada as often as we could, we would watch any game we could find at times. I grew up a Soccer player and have played up until about 3 years ago when I had the final straw that broke the Camels back as they say, when I broke my foot. In college I really started watching hockey with the accessibility of internet streams. I had always been affiliated with the Canucks as they were the closest team to me geographically. Let me tell you that was hard. so while in college i really thought to myself, it's time too pick MY team, a team who I really felt passionate for, a team who's playing a coaching style I really could respect and gravitated towards. I spent the 2021-13 season watching just about every team but the team I really gravitated towards was the Wings. I respected their persona as team they gave off and I really enjoyed Babs' coaching style (side note he ironically got his start as a coach for the Spokane Chiefs). So since about 2013 I really thought of myself as a Wings fan. I got a lot of funny looks from friends when i decided to "pledge my allegiance" to the Winged Wheel. But i didn't stop there, after watching them for 2 years solid and really getting invested in the team I decided it was time to really immerse myself in the culture and make my pilgrimage to "Mecca". I convinced my girlfriend to join me in taking a trip out to Detroit, not only to see a game but to see Detroit itself and see what they city was all about. I fell in love, the city welcomed us with open arms and every single person we met assured us that Detroit was not the city the media and other people are making out to be. I can say first hand that I saw that in this city that truly is turning a corner and is nothing like what other people portray it to be! Everyone was kind and made sure to tell us where we have to go and things we have to do while we were in town. People we so surprised and excited that we would come all the way from Seattle to take a vacation to Detroit, my own friends here thought we were crazy! We enjoyed out time and of course the game, they were playing the Stars and lost 4-0 not exactly how I had hoped my first visit to Hockeytown would go. Regardless I had a once in a lifetime experience going to the Joe before it was closed down, we also both found it funny that there were no cup holders which made the drinks go down a lot quicker While staying in an old historic home near Belle Island I had the chance encounter with the finish contractor of the home we were staying in. While shooting the breeze about historic home (i used to work in the seismic-retrofitting industry) he gave me a replica championship ring form the 1997 season which he said the Ilitch family gave out as a promo Little Caesars pizza combo. I still have that ring however it only fits my pinky-finger so its a great key-ring accessory. A few years later we made another Wings trip, this time to visit an old roommate who moved to Nashville, we went this last February and saw them squeak one past Pekka for a 1-0 win. I hope to make another trip out in the coming years to see the new arena and soo how much the city has progressed. So that's my story and i'm excited to learn more and get into the game more and if there any other Pacific Northwest Wings fans out there know you are not alone!

There's this Mlve article from today: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/08/andreas_athanasiou_agent_consi.html#incart_river_index "The agent for Andreas Athanasiou said there is a wide gap between offers the young forward has received from the Detroit Red Wings and some KHL clubs. ...Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said he remains in contact with Ferris but "the ball is in their court. They have a decision to make." Holland said he has made multiple good-faith offers based on comparables -- NHL players of similar age and accomplishments (games, goals, points per game, etc.). ...Holland has said he still expects to be slightly over the cap if Athanasiou is signed, requiring him to make another move. But the cap isn't the reason the Red Wings, who have made offers of one and two years, don't have a deal with the fast-skating winger who has 27 goals and 43 points in 101 NHL games. They're determined to negotiate based on comparables, not what on a player can get in the KHL. Otherwise, other young players (Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha are up for new deals after the season) could use offers from Russia as a basis for their NHL contract."

Fair enough. My apologies for beating the dead horse.

It's not just your opinion. 99% of everyone agrees and want him gone somehow. But, as you agree, it's not going to happen. It's just beating a dead horse over and over and over. It's like discussing trading Zetterberg. Sure you can do it, but it's not in the realm of reality so what's the point? Believe it or not, topics vary in merit. Bringing up trading for Seguin (or whoever) is at least something new. Trading Ericsson has become discussed ad nauseam, and no one disagrees... so my apologies, I just find it annoying when the same lame topic leaks into every thread with nothing new to talk about. This has gone too far into discussing "how" people post so I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, assuming GR will lose Bertuzzi to the main roster, Callahan in the offseason, and maybe Frk to waivers I don't think this is a bad idea. I don't think any of our young forwards are ready to step in so it's not like he's taking a spot from anyway.

I'm confused. Now you're arguing the exact point I was originally making. Zberg carries this team, and he carries his linemates, Mantha and Larkin included. You suggested Mantha rejuvenated an old Zberg just a few posts ago, but now you're agreeing that he elevates his teammates? IMO Mantha benefited tremendously from spending the majority of his time with Zberg, just like Larkin did. Which is why I don't consider Mantha a bonafide top6 player in this league yet. Larkin was a drastically different player, and did not look at all like a top6 forward, without Zberg guiding him. There's a very good chance the same thing happens to Mantha in his sophomore year. Yeah, Mantha was deployed on the 1st line. That doesn't make him a 1st line caliber player. Zberg was deployed about 5 minutes more a nigh without Mantha, and with other players not named Mantha when heading into the defensive zone. That's sheltering a player. Hopefully Mantha develops into the first line player we both want him to be, but as of this moment he hasn't played the role, minutes, or situations of a first line player. When he grabs those reigns successfully he will be a 1st line player, but as of now he's more akin to a Vanek type.

Yeah, I hear you, but Grand Rapids is actually fairly weak at forward right now, so I'd be okay with adding another veteran like Booth.

A little extra camp competition and probably not much more than that. Would actually be ok with this I think.. depending on if any vets lefts after last year.

1. Uh... 2. I wouldve liked this a few years ago. Implying you don't like it now. 3. Shall we re-sign Weiss now? Implying Booth is washed up (he probably is) and would be a bad signing like Weiss.

Toronto didn't really choose to suck. They sucked for almost a decade and then Babcock got there and got rid of a bunch of veterans, Phaneuf and Kessel and tanked all within 1 years time. Then they happened to get lucky by getting the first round pick. Which obviously landed them Mathews. If they got unlucky they wouldn't have gotten Mathews and likely would have still been eliminated from the playoffs this past year just like all the previous years. Also Toronto still isn't good. They're okay. But likely will become good. But good enough to win the Stanley Cup? Probably not with the way Pittsbugh is looking. And once McDavid hits his prime I doubt a combined Mathews, Marner or Nylander could out win him. Same goes for Edmonton. They never planned on sucking in 2015. They sucked, simply because they sucked just as they did in the previous years. And they happened to win the draft lottery and jumped from 3rd pick to 1st pick and got McDavid. We easily could be talking about Buffalo instead of Edmonton today. But we aren't because there was a lottery. There is no genius managing involved in this. Toronto and Edmonton went through a decade of bad luck and all it took was one year of good luck. Who the hell wants to wait that long. And that's just two teams. Buffalo, Carolina are still trying to get "lucky" and it's been about a decade for them too. New Jersey has been on trying to get lucky for about 5 years now, woopty doo they finally got a 1st pick OUT OF SHEER LUCK. Their prize is Hischier (ehhh). They weren't even trying to rebuild they just got screwed by Kovalchuck, Parise leaving lol. They did aquire a crap ton of picks over the years. Nothing different from what Holland is doing. I think if it's around February and the prospects of making the playoffs are dim, then sure by all means lets NOT make the playoffs so we're top 14 in draft and can try for the lottery. But purposely tanking since day 1 is stupid. Stupid managerial speaking, and also stupid in terms of marketing. Of course it doesn't sound stupid to fans because all we want is our team to win. But the owners want to make money and sell their product. Got to see it from their perspectives. Who would keep on going to a brand new arena knowing that their team is tanking? And ends up tanking for the next 5 years in a row? That's how you lose fans. No marketer would purposely show it's fan base that they aren't willing to sell their product and they're in fact trashing their product. They're going to put the best product out there for people to buy and that's through winning or trying their best to win.

what yer doin', Kenny?

You would fit in well at cnn.